Bedard's Jacksonville film review - Brady right to call out offense

[PatsFanNM]

A lot has been made of how much less good the 49ers defensive line was after playing 92 snaps against the Pats, when they played Seattle. I wouldn't be surprised that there was a similar impact on the Pats O-line.

Guess we'll find out Sunday. I expect Miami to be revved up and rarin' to go.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm sure you're a fine and competent person.

But Jesus sometimes I feel like we have the dumbest fans possible.

But that isn't because you actually know some of us...Is it?

 

[Deus Irae]

Patriots fans have been spoiled period. But where the OL is concerned Brady has effected their ability to play at the level Dante coaches them up to as much as anything. Unfortunately at the end of the day that level drives the unit cost artificially and that impacts the teams ability to invest elsewhere. Mankins is two years into a top of the market deal and despite what Pro Bowl voters seem to think he hasn't played at that level since 2010 when he only did so for half a season. Now they are already past protecting him and have to try to squeeze $8.5M per of production out of him... They will be facing a similar situation as they assess any offer to Vollmer - with a second deal for Solder looming after 2013 (or a hefty 5th year guaranteed rookie tag cap hit in 2015). A $25M+ OL isn't going to float here even if they were truly worth it.

Don't be surprised to see them squeeze Mankins into a pay cut restructure this off season. And a true one or at least one that requires him to earn money back via playing time incentives...and throughout the remainder of his deal unless he starts earning his pro bowl nods. Otherwise he isn't seeing that deal through to 2016.

I don't know why you think Mankins would take less money after playing through injuries and coming back as fast as he did. He'd be a fool to do that. The guy played on a popped ACL, and then came back from it too early, possibly because he saw what a disaster the line would be without him. He has no need to take any cuts or restructures that cost him money.

 

[Deus Irae]

Absolutely. I have a very hard time seeing Mankins playing out his deal, no matter what. He got his $20M signing bonus, and he hasn't consistently played up to his pre-2010 level since his holdout. I give him credit for toughness, leadership and playing through injuries, but he has a huge cap hit that is a drain on other areas, and he has to play up to it to continue justifying that kind of money.

He played 2011 on a popped ACL. He's played 2012 on a rehabbing ACL and multiple other injuries, when he probably should have been sitting out. I'm not sure what you think it takes to "play up to" his contract, but he's gone above and beyond.

 

[Triumph]

I dont see Mankins giving money back after the theyve already made a deal.

Mankins is a handshake/man of your word type of person. The game is too dangerous particularly for offensive lineman to go back and give discounts.

 

[patfanken]

-

Vollmer has been up and down for about a month or so. He also gave up a key sack at the end of the 49ers' game (so did Solder). Let's not act like this was the only game he struggled.

I am shocked that that Volmer could allow a sack to one of the best pass rushing teams in the league, when his QB only dropped back 65 times in the game. Yeah he was horrible.

And it is probably 95% injuries that is the problem right now. Clearly Vollmer and Mankins are the most injured of the bunch and both are playing below their talent levels. Connolly too. That exposes Wendell.

Well thank for that concession at least. Of course this latest blip is all about the injuries. Plus we saw how the effort of the SF/Pats game affected the Niners the next week, I'm sure it was one of the reasons for the poor play of the Pats as well.

It will be interesting to see what BB does vs the Phins. Wake on Cannon is NOT a match up I'd be looking forward to see. Actually I change my mind. I would be interested in seeing how Cannon would fare in this match up. Its time we see if Cannon's future IS at RT, or is it at G. BTW- as ugly as that match might be in the passing game. I doubt Wake would be lookng forward to seeing Cannon in the run game.

 

[SVN]

oline has been a big concern for last 3-4 weeks. other than texan game and even that game in the 2nd Q , brady was hit a lot. fins/texans/49ers and jags all have gotten after our oline alarmingly.

 

[mayoclinic]

He played 2011 on a popped ACL. He's played 2012 on a rehabbing ACL and multiple other injuries, when he probably should have been sitting out. I'm not sure what you think it takes to "play up to" his contract, but he's gone above and beyond.

I give Mankins full credit - as I mentioned in my post - for Mankins going "above and beyond" in terms of effort and leadership. But ultimately, the team has to decide who to pay and who not to pay, and taking a $10M cap hit for a guard who is playing at a mediocre level just isn't worth it, no matter how heroic his effort. Ultimately Mankins will either have to recover from his injuries and produce at a level commensurate with his salary and cap hit, or the Pats are going to have to make some hard choices. I applaud the guy for being willing to put his body through the wringer, but that's not enough.

 

[manxman2601]

I give Mankins full credit - as I mentioned in my post - for Mankins going "above and beyond" in terms of effort and leadership. But ultimately, the team has to decide who to pay and who not to pay, and taking a $10M cap hit for a guard who is playing at a mediocre level just isn't worth it, no matter how heroic his effort. Ultimately Mankins will either have to recover from his injuries and produce at a level commensurate with his salary and cap hit, or the Pats are going to have to make some hard choices. I applaud the guy for being willing to put his body through the wringer, but that's not enough.

Lord knows I'm no expert on contracts and the cap, but am I right in thinking that the Pats save nothing by cutting Mankins next year and only 2 mil in 2014? Probably means he's here for at least a couple more years unless they get really desperate.

 

[mayoclinic]

Lord knows I'm no expert on contracts and the cap, but am I right in thinking that the Pats save nothing by cutting Mankins next year and only 2 mil in 2014? Probably means he's here for at least a couple more years unless they get really desperate.

Pretty much. They would eat money to cut Mankins in 2013, and would only save $2.5M in 2014 according to the Jets' cap page, assuming no restructuring. But - and I'm also not a cap person, so I'm not sure of this - I think the last 2 years would be more likely to result in a significant savings, so it's much more likely that if Mankins doesn't restructure that he sees 1-2 more years and then is gone. His base salary is $7M for 2015 and 2016, and he'll be 33 going into the 2015 season.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Of course Brady is right to call out the offense. He's a captain and they played like crap.

 

[Deus Irae]

Lord knows I'm no expert on contracts and the cap, but am I right in thinking that the Pats save nothing by cutting Mankins next year and only 2 mil in 2014? Probably means he's here for at least a couple more years unless they get really desperate.

Yeah....

His contract is set up in such a way that he has no need to take a restructuring which costs him money at this time. That's only likely to become a possible issue after next season.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Definitely agree with this. Vollmer is clearly hurting and his back issues are seemingly becoming chronic. Sit him this weekend and let him rest it.

My biggest concern about the OL is the interior OL. Wendell looks overwhelmed at times and Connolly is clearly injured. The biggest concern when it comes to an opposing pass rush vs. Brady is a pass rush up the A-Gap. Alualu was getting a decent push up the middle last week. Against teams like the Bengals and Texans, that interior OL needs to be stout or Brady's going to be peeling himself up off the turf a good amount.

Yeah, maybe some day the Patriots will actually play the Texans and test that theory.

Great observation.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, maybe some day the Patriots will actually play the Texans and test that theory.

Great observation.

The Pats blew them out last time, yes, but the Pats also blew the Jets out in 2010 and coughed one up in Foxborough a month later.

Further, with the issues on the interior OL (which is what I was talking about in my OP), JJ Watt could potentially wreck more havoc in a re-match than he did in the first meeting. The Bengals are another team in the AFC that can exploit that weakness without having to blitz.

And now I await your intelligent and well thought out response.

 

[Rob0729]

- I am shocked that that Volmer could allow a sack to one of the best pass rushing teams in the league, when his QB only dropped back 65 times in the game. Yeah he was horrible.

Not saying Vollmer is horrible. I am saying he is clearly inconsistent because of his back issues. He struggled in many games over the last month or so. Also, Vollmer along with the rest of the o-line played like crap for most of the first half of the 49ers game. It wasn't just one play at the end.

Well thank for that concession at least. Of course this latest blip is all about the injuries. Plus we saw how the effort of the SF/Pats game affected the Niners the next week, I'm sure it was one of the reasons for the poor play of the Pats as well.

It isn't a concession. It was my original point. My original point was that Vollmer needed the game off because he needs to rest to be healthy for the playoffs because his injury is clearly hurting his consistency. The Pats have players playing considerably less than 100% at RT and both guards due to injuries. Even Bedard mentioned it in his piece as one of the biggest reasons for the Pats' struggles.

I would sit all three guys if there were adequet replacements for them for the Dolphins' game.

 

[Rob0729]

The Pats blew them out last time, yes, but the Pats also blew the Jets out in 2010 and coughed one up in Foxborough a month later.

Further, with the issues on the interior OL (which is what I was talking about in my OP), JJ Watt could potentially wreck more havoc in a re-match than he did in the first meeting. The Bengals are another team in the AFC that can exploit that weakness without having to blitz.

And now I await your intelligent and well thought out response.

I'm not so worried about JJ Watt just because when the Pats really only have to account for one specific player, they usually find a way to do it. It is when you have to account for multiple players when the Pats' struggle. Hence why the o-line improved exponentially against the 49ers when they only had one Smith to account for. I don't know if the Texans have the players to take advantage of the o-line if they figure out how to neutralize Watt.

I am more worried about the Bengals in that respect because there is no one particular player you can tee off on and take out of the game.

 

[captain stone]

So if Brady, Welker, Branch, Woodhead and Ridley came to play that leaves ...

- Hernandez
- Lloyd
- Hoomanawanui
- Bolden (12 snaps), Fells (8 snaps), Vereen (3 snaps) and Aiken (3 snaps)
- The OL

The thing that stands out to me is that Jacksonville - a team known for getting poor pressure all season - pressured Brady on almost 48% of his drop backs despite blitzing only 11% of the time. That can't happen.

Hoo-Man did have a nice catch for a 1st down. I can't comment on his blocking, as I watched the game
at a pub on a standard-sized TV.

Bedard is absolutely spot-on, though, regarding the broken-down OL, Lloyd, and (alli)Gator(-arms)
Aaron Hernandez. That contract is looking worse by the week...

 

[BradyFTW!]

Absolutely. I have a very hard time seeing Mankins playing out his deal, no matter what. He got his $20M signing bonus, and he hasn't consistently played up to his pre-2010 level since his holdout. I give him credit for toughness, leadership and playing through injuries, but he has a huge cap hit that is a drain on other areas, and he has to play up to it to continue justifying that kind of money.

Cutting Mankins doesn't become any kind of an option until 2014, and even in 2014 it would only save the Pats $2M against the cap. Since there's no way they can replace his production with $2M, I expect that Mankins will be around for 2 more seasons then get the ax in 2015.

Man, that contract looks really bad in hindsight. Pats have to get some young talent on the interior of the line, probably starting this offseason.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not so worried about JJ Watt just because when the Pats really only have to account for one specific player, they usually find a way to do it. It is when you have to account for multiple players when the Pats' struggle. Hence why the o-line improved exponentially against the 49ers when they only had one Smith to account for. I don't know if the Texans have the players to take advantage of the o-line if they figure out how to neutralize Watt.

I am more worried about the Bengals in that respect because there is no one particular player you can tee off on and take out of the game.

The reason I worry about Watt is because, though he didn't record a sack in the first game, he was constantly in the backfield and Brady was pretty consistently peeling himself off the turf. Connolly is pretty obviously banged up and Watt could pose some issues going forward.

 

[mayoclinic]

Cutting Mankins doesn't become any kind of an option until 2014, and even in 2014 it would only save the Pats $2M against the cap. Since there's no way they can replace his production with $2M, I expect that Mankins will be around for 2 more seasons then get the ax in 2015.

Man, that contract looks really bad in hindsight. Pats have to get some young talent on the interior of the line, probably starting this offseason.

That's pretty much what I said (see post #30). I wasn't particularly wild about the Mankins contract at the time, given that he was a 29 year old guard.