Where's Waters?

[Lamanai]

He came aboard Sept 4 last year.

And made the Pro Bowl.

Yes, but he wasn't under contract with us. Presumably, the Pats were able to check out his fitness before inking him to a deal. This year we won't really know.

It seems like, in a perfect world BB would have been OK with Waters missing Spring and Summer TC, but would have required him to get at least a little time in with the team.

I don't know about this, but will he have to wait three days before playing with pads?

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, but he wasn't under contract with us. Presumably, the Pats were able to check out his fitness before inking him to a deal. This year we won't really know.

It seems like, in a perfect world BB would have been OK with Waters missing Spring and Summer TC, but would have required him to get at least a little time in with the team.

I don't know about this, but will he have to wait three days before playing with pads?

I'm sure if the Pats gave Waters the summer off, they gave him a workout routine and have been checking in with him regularly to make sure he is staying in shape.

Waters is going into his 13th season. I think he is seasoned enough to jump right in. I would argue it would be worse to make him grind it out at his age during the summer risking him to be more likely to burn out in January.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I don't see how the OL won't have "major" problems if Vollmer continues to have back issues.
We would have Cannon at RT and no backup OT. I understand that other teams have their problems, but on a patriot team, this would be a serious problem.

Most other teams would have a problem if they lost a starting tackle, the question is how does anyone know how badly the line will struggle.

I can remember in SB36 and SB38 we lost key linemen before/during those games and didn't have the most reliable talent on OL, but the replacements did fine. In SB42 we had what was thought of as a dominant OL and they fell apart when Neal went down.

 

[Lamanai]

I'm sure if the Pats gave Waters the summer off, they gave him a workout routine and have been checking in with him regularly to make sure he is staying in shape.

Waters is going into his 13th season. I think he is seasoned enough to jump right in. I would argue it would be worse to make him grind it out at his age during the summer risking him to be more likely to burn out in January.

I can see this reasoning, but how do you tell other veterans to keep grinding it out? For instance, what about Wilfork, who is on the north side of 30? One could argue that it is far more important not to burn him out in January.

 

[Rob0729]

I can see this reasoning, but how do you tell other veterans to keep grinding it out? For instance, what about Wilfork, who is on the north side of 30? One could argue that it is far more important not to burn him out in January.

Talk to me when Wilfork is 35. Wilfork is still in his prime. Waters is in the last year of his career.

Belichick did do something like this with Seau. Seau was not under contract, but they waited until this time to sign him.

 

[WinstonSmith]

I'm sure if the Pats gave Waters the summer off, they gave him a workout routine and have been checking in with him regularly to make sure he is staying in shape.

Waters is going into his 13th season. I think he is seasoned enough to jump right in. I would argue it would be worse to make him grind it out at his age during the summer risking him to be more likely to burn out in January.

“And if you expect him to walk through that door, he’s going to be gray and old.”

Is anyone else a bit concerned that when/if he does come back that he may hit the proverbial wall and won’t be nearly as productive as last year or do you think that last year’s performance levels or just a slight decline is almost a given?

 

[willard]

I have always felt that he was going to be back and that this was a courtesy extended to an aging veteran.

Now I am becoming concerned. The new rules require him to sit out practice for 3 days. Thought he would be here by now to start work on continuity with his other offensive lineman.

Hoping he returns, but Vollmer is a greater concern.

 

[in 12 we trust]

I would hope Waters will show up tomorrow...we need him bad !

 

[patriot lifer]

I can see this reasoning, but how do you tell other veterans to keep grinding it out? For instance, what about Wilfork, who is on the north side of 30? One could argue that it is far more important not to burn him out in January.

That's something for BB to worry about. He's probably better with the players than any other coach. He might not have a ton of charisma, but he knows more in dealing/managing his players than a guy like Rex Ryan, who players say they enjoy playing for. He's been doing this for so long and has learned from years of mistakes.

And I wouldn't worry about Wilfork. The amount of practices and rigor of the sessions have dropped dramatically. It shouldn't be a problem for the big man.

We all want Waters in there now. We want that security, and we worry about the quality of the line. We don't know what will happen, but have an expectation that he'll be there. Last year, he walked onto the team and was the best lineman we had (pretty good for switching to RG too). It's a guess, but BB and company probably have an idea of what condition he's in. All that means is that they will probably go into the first game being fully prepared for whether or not he's there.

 

[Kid~Brady]

I think if he was going to retire, he would've announced so by now. He's coming back.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think if he was going to retire, he would've announced so by now. He's coming back.

I'm as optimistic that he'll be back as anyone else on this forum. However, there is still a distinct possibility that he could "Ricky Williams" us.

 

[mgteich]

If Waters has a half a season or so of great football left, I would prefer to see him later rather than sooner. I certainly hope that he chooses to play another season.

 

[Lamanai]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is really a pissing contest about $$$

I think Waters is scheduled to make about $1.4m this season. All of the earlier volleying back and forth about "you'll have to talk to him/them about that" could be about who is gonna flinch first. Just a theory.

If Waters' situation does not change by Week 1 (he is on the did not report list) and he returns later is his salary guaranteed? Also, if he does not return, for whatever reason, there is the spectre of the bonus being reclaimed.

I hope this is much ado about nothing, but I smell smoke.

 

[Big-T]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is really a pissing contest about $$$

I think Waters is scheduled to make about $1.4m this season. All of the earlier volleying back and forth about "you'll have to talk to him/them about that" could be about who is gonna flinch first. Just a theory.

If Waters' situation does not change by Week 1 (he is on the did not report list) and he returns later is his salary guaranteed? Also, if he does not return, for whatever reason, there is the spectre of the bonus being reclaimed.

I hope this is much ado about nothing, but I smell smoke.

If he was holding out because of money the Patriots would have fined him every day so far...but they haven't so it pretty much rules out a hold out.

 

[Lamanai]

If he was holding out because of money the Patriots would have fined him every day so far...but they haven't so it pretty much rules out a hold out.

Are you sure they have (or will) not ?

 

[Big-T]

Are you sure they have (or will) not ?

I believe they are/were all shown on the NFLPA website if a player received a fine.

Plus if it were the case ESPN/NFLN would have been all over the "PATRIOTS ARE CHEAP!!!" rubbish.

Pretty sure I read on here yesterday a snippet from a web chat with a reporter too saying there's been no fines issued.

 

[Rob0729]

Are you sure they have (or will) not ?

The Pats have to report with the league that Waters has not reported to the team and it is an unexcused absence. They also have to send Waters a letter that gets CCed by the league. They also have to report to the league that they are fining him. They have listed him with the league as an excused absence.

 

[Rob0729]

“And if you expect him to walk through that door, he’s going to be gray and old.”

Is anyone else a bit concerned that when/if he does come back that he may hit the proverbial wall and won’t be nearly as productive as last year or do you think that last year’s performance levels or just a slight decline is almost a given?

That's a possibility, but considering he played at a Pro Bowl level last year I am not that worried that he will fall apart. It could happen though. I think giving him the summer off was part of minimizing this risk like Belichick used to do with Seau.

 

[Lamanai]

Even with the circumstantial evidence (excused absence, locker intact, past history) pointing to his return, it is unsettling. It's kind of like someone offering you a job saying "I just have to get the boss to sign off on it", and then waiting for the official confirmation.

 

[patriot lifer]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is really a pissing contest about $$$

I think Waters is scheduled to make about $1.4m this season. All of the earlier volleying back and forth about "you'll have to talk to him/them about that" could be about who is gonna flinch first. Just a theory.

If Waters' situation does not change by Week 1 (he is on the did not report list) and he returns later is his salary guaranteed? Also, if he does not return, for whatever reason, there is the spectre of the bonus being reclaimed.

I hope this is much ado about nothing, but I smell smoke.

If he wanted money, I think we would have heard something about it. And the team hasn't intimated any displeasure regarding his absence, whatsoever. That being said, nothing is guaranteed.