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Gaffney Released


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Lost in all this hoopla is the fact that the Fanonono "Debacle!" is still hovering like a toxic radiation cloud over the entire team....wait...you mean it's gone away???....
never-mind-smiley.gif
 
Gaffney was/is a threat all over the field, especially in our offense. Where you're getting that from, I'm not sure.



That was certainly apparent in the AFCCG and Super Bowl, and throughout points of last season as a whole. It's the reason why BB went out and signed guys like Lloyd and Gaffney.

Gaffney caught 1 ball over 40 yards and 5 balls 30-40 yards in 2007 and ZERO balls over 30 yards in 2008 for the Pats. In fact, he only caught two balls in 2008 over 20 yards (granted it was with Cassell). That is better than Branch, but that is not a deep threat.

Jabar Gaffney Stats, Splits - ESPN
Jabar Gaffney Stats, Splits - ESPN

One thing I will give you is that he is more of an outside threat than I gave him credit for, but Branch does those types of numbers too.

As for what was apparent with the Super Bowl was that without a healthy Gronk, they needed another consistent receiving threat which they got with Lloyd.

Besides, I still think a deep threat is one of the most overrated things people want. Sure if you have a guy like Fitzgerald it can be huge, but in most cases probably not that much more than a guy Welker who demands just as many double teams and gameplanning.
 
You're assuming that Gaffney can still play. He had a great season last year, but we've all seen veterans drop off the map before.

I think it's possible he's injured and could return later in the season, so they don't have to guarantee his contract; they've done that before with guys like Gerard Warren. Let's see if Gaffney shows interest in any other teams.

Either way, t's safe to say the Patriots have more information than we do. It definitely sucks to lose two outside threats at the same time, but there's probably more going on than we know.

That's a fair point, this could be another Leigh Bodden type scenario, where a cut that seems to make no sense later turns out to make some, if only because the guy can't play anymore. I think any discussion of the situation comes with the inherent caveat that, if that's the case, then the entire premise on which the discussion was based is flawed.
 
Sure, and there's also the possibility that the team has seen Ebert work enough to think he can be a threat downfield and outside the numbers. However, we can only go by what we know.

Ebert looked so unimpressive in the preseason i would bet he would easily clear waivers and end up on our PS.
 
If the Patriots had a single WR who could regularly threaten opposing defenses downfield, they probably would have had the top offense in NFL history, and Brady would probably have a fourth ring right now.

Maybe they have that this year with Lloyd. If Brandon Lloyd delivers 1,000+/- yards on 80 receptions - 5 catches/game for a lousy 60 yards - we're looking at another 5,000 yard season from Brady and a juggernaut offense.

It's a scheme situation that ties up two corners and a safety on routes of 15 yards or more by Branch and LLoyd. That leaves Gronk, Hernandez and Welker to operate three on four underneath. At least two of those guys are single covered or all three finding soft spots in a zone.

I am dying to see those five guys on the field at the same time with Brady at the controls.

This is where Branch is so valuable. Of course, Branch is not going to outrun anybody or out-muscle a defender for the ball, but when push comes to shove, he's right where Brady thinks he'll be.
 
Again, I don't know how the whole keeping them honest outside changed much from yesterday to today. Stallworth if he had anything left might have helped there, but not Gaffney. Gaffney isn't much different than Branch in his playing style and not much of an outside receiver.

Per FootballOutsiders: 27% of his catches were in the shorter area of the field, 39% were in the mid/intermediate level, 22% were deep, and 12% were bombs. As I said, Gaffney threatened the entire field and the stats back that up. Roughly 34% of his catches were deep or bombs, IE outside the numbers... and that was with Rex Grossman and John Beck throwing him the rock.
 
Interesting looking at Gaff and Branch's career's, both have been in the league the same amount of years and started a similar number of games.

Gaffs numbers look better the past few years, I believe he was the #2 guy on those 2 teams(please correct me if I'm wrong), while Branch had comparable numbers being our 2nd and 4rth option the past 2 years. I realize Gaff had lesser QB's as well.

Code:
Branch		 G	GS	rec	yds	y/r	tds
2002-2012		130	107	502	6499	12.9	39

Gaffney		 G	GS	rec	yds	y/r	tds
2002-2012		155	104	443	5622	12.7	24

Is it possible BB chose the better wide receiver in Branch over Gaff?
 
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More like stone hands.

They won't use him extensively...just hasn't got the skills.

They occassiknally use him as a blocker on run plays and then use him for the odd play action pass and try and catch teams cheating towards the run and biting, allowing him to use his pure speed.

His one (and I think only) reception came on such a play, where we lined him up as the lone wideout in a 3 TE set, play faked and Brady connected deep.
 
By all accounts, it was looking more and more like Gaffney would more or less split time with Branch depending on the in-game situation. At the very least, he would have been there for injury insurance. But, no matter how you cut it, with Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker, an offense like our's is ultimately more potent with two guys that can threaten outside the numbers instead of just one.

I sincerely hope that Gaffney is brought back. I'm not saying that this release was a HUGE mistake by any measure (a huge mistake would be letting Sanders and Meriweather go because Sergio Brown had a better camp than either of them last year), but it's definitely ill advised.




*Fully aware that Meriweather and Sanders are irrelevant and I'm not trying to go down that road and de-rail the thread. Just bringing up an example of a huge mistake.

Actually depending on reports, Gaffney was a disappointment during training camp. It looked like he was going to be definitely behind Branch.

I had high hopes for him and I hope they re-sign him after week 1, but I think concerns about the #4 WR is still a relatively minor concern for any team. Branch could probably start on any of our AFC East bretherin and he is back up. Right now he is better than Stephen Hill, Donald Jones, or Legdu Naanee (all the #2 WR on their team). Heck, I think he may be good enough to be the #1 WR for the Dolphins.
 
Per FootballOutsiders: 27% of his catches were in the shorter area of the field, 39% were in the mid/intermediate level, 22% were deep, and 12% were bombs. As I said, Gaffney threatened the entire field and the stats back that up. Roughly 34% of his catches were deep or bombs, IE outside the numbers... and that was with Rex Grossman and John Beck throwing him the rock.

Maybe last year, but not when he was with the Pats. The Pats didn't use him that way. Maybe McDaniels would have changed this time around with him, but he was mostly a short to intermediate WR here.
 
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Gaffney caught 1 ball over 40 yards and 5 balls 30-40 yards in 2007 and ZERO balls over 30 yards in 2008 for the Pats. In fact, he only caught two balls in 2008 over 20 yards (granted it was with Cassell). That is better than Branch, but that is not a deep threat.

Jabar Gaffney Stats, Splits - ESPN
Jabar Gaffney Stats, Splits - ESPN

1. Gaffney wasn't needed in the stictly outside the numbers role in those years like he would have been this year. That was for Moss, so it isn't a surprise that he flourished elsewhere. Regardless, that doesn't disspell my argument that he's a threat all over the field.

2. See my last post where I listed his 2011 splits.

One thing I will give you is that he is more of an outside threat than I gave him credit for, but Branch does those types of numbers too.

Sure he does, but not nearly as much as Gaffney.

Branch 2011: 37% short, 49% mid/intermediate, 11% deep, 4% bomb.

Branch caught 15% of his passes outside the numbers and deep as compared to Gaffney's 34%. And with Branch, Tom Brady was throwing him the ball and not Grossman or Beck.

As for what was apparent with the Super Bowl was that without a healthy Gronk, they needed another consistent receiving threat which they got with Lloyd.

Even with a healthy Gronk in the AFCCG, the Ravens were still flooding the middle of the field and slowing us down.

Besides, I still think a deep threat is one of the most overrated things people want. Sure if you have a guy like Fitzgerald it can be huge, but in most cases probably not that much more than a guy Welker who demands just as many double teams and gameplanning.

The difference is that with MULTIPLE guys that can threaten outside the numbers, the defense has more space on the field than they have to account for as opposed to having just one guy that can do that, or no guys (as is the case in 2011). More is better everytime. That's why, outside of horrific injury, this move is a head scratcher.

Gaffney provides/provided:

1. Second threat to every level of the field.

2. Body to spell guys like Branch depending on down and distance/situation.

3. Injury insurance to guys like Lloyd or Branch.

Again, more is better. You even stated yourself earlier in the thread that you want to see Gaffney back and are hoping to see him back. Why are you now attempting to argue against that?
 
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Personally, I would love to have a Gaffney or someone comprehible as the #4 WR, but I think people have unrealistic standards for what a a depth chart for WRs looks like these days. The #4 WR is usually a special teamer who can be on the field for 5-15 plays and catch one ball a game.

Some of it depends on what Branch gives us right now. Branch might have ESP with Brady, but he is limited in where he attacks the field now. I would argue Gaffney can attack the deep area of the field much better. Between the two of them, you have a nice complementary pair, and some welcome redundancy. Simpler put, Gaffney is another guy who can do damage outside of the hash marks.

This might, as you point out, be a luxury. But we have plenty of STers at RB, LB & DB, as well as WR5 & WR6. So the necessity that WR4 be an STer is not there to me.

Everyone looks to the Super Bowl for answers for what is and what isn't wrong with this team. It's an interesting case study, because on the one hand, the deficiencies of the Patriots roster were on clear display. But on the other, the game was ours for the taking with better execution. Why did we lose that game?

1) Luck. Dumb luck. Fumbles bounce away from Patriot defenders. It's out of our control.
2) Execution. The Giants executed just slightly better than we did. They have a stacked roster. That is out of the control of Belichick the GM. Brady and Welker could've made that pass & catch. Mayo could've picked off Manning if he turns his head around. JPP or whoever sticks his hand up right when Brady throws in the red zone. Manningham taps his toe in bounds. No roster building can account for those kind of moments. Therefore, I declare this one, "out of our control."

That's really why we lost the Super Bowl, that's why we came up short. No roster is absent of deficiencies, can we blame roster building for the loss? No, of course not.

But that doesn't mean we sit on our hands and do nothing. So, the question to me becomes, which deficiencies can we most realistically address so as to reduce the impact of these variances in luck and execution come January and February next year? What, realistically, can we do to make a strong team stronger? How can we fare better against comparably strong opponents, such as the Giants?

Can we make the secondary better? Obviously that was a weakspot. We're trying. But that's very difficult. We've tried via the draft. It's not easy in this pass first league that favors offense in the rulebook. We've had little success.

Can we make the pass rush better? Again, we're throwing everything against the wall, we've loaded up, but there's no guarantees it will work.

Can we have a better running attack, more balanced approach on offense? Easier said that done. There are only a few true gamechangers at RB in the league. We have not happened upon one yet.

Can we have a deeper receiving corp so that the Giants can't simply attack the center of the field where our best skill players do their damage? Yes. Yes, this is by far the easiest and simplest problem there is to fix given we have veteran Wide Receivers with experience in this system lining up to play with TB12, Bill and McD. Would we have won the SB with a deeper receiving group? Yes. The failure of Ocho to contribute ultimately did matter in the end. We were one weapon short in SB46 with a hobbled Gronk, and we couldn't stretch the field. Brandon Lloyd should be the answer. But if his injury results in this being a question mark again, isn't it worth just carrying Gaffney to ensure we have depth there to keep this question answered? Isn't that easier than all the hand-wringing over building a secondary or conjuring up a pass-rush? Yes.

Belichick identified the easiest way to improve the roster and went after it aggressively this past offseason. In the past few days, he's undone that a bit. It makes me nervous. But I trust him, and I am sure he has a plan. I just think we need to acknowledge the importance of WR depth on this team - and how it is, right now at least, basically the simplest issue to address.
 
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I had high hopes for him and I hope they re-sign him after week 1, but I think concerns about the #4 WR is still a relatively minor concern for any team. Branch could probably start on any of our AFC East bretherin and he is back up. Right now he is better than Stephen Hill, Donald Jones, or Legdu Naanee (all the #2 WR on their team). Heck, I think he may be good enough to be the #1 WR for the Dolphins.
The New England Patriots will not be facing the aforementioned teams in the 2012-13 AFC Playoffs. Let's not as Patriots fans lower ourselves to those low standards.
 
Actually depending on reports, Gaffney was a disappointment during training camp. It looked like he was going to be definitely behind Branch.

Can you reference these reports? Because, from everything I heard (this includes posters here), Gaffney was having a solid camp before injury and his connection with Brady was still very good.

I had high hopes for him and I hope they re-sign him after week 1, but I think concerns about the #4 WR is still a relatively minor concern for any team.

See the reasons I listed in my last post as being reasons for valid concern. But I do agree with you that I hope they bring him back.
 
1. Gaffney wasn't needed in the stictly outside the numbers role in those years like he would have been this year. That was for Moss, so it isn't a surprise that he flourished elsewhere. Regardless, that doesn't disspell my argument that he's a threat all over the field.

2. See my last post where I listed his 2011 splits.



Sure he does, but not nearly as much as Gaffney.

Branch 2011: 37% short, 49% mid/intermediate, 11% deep, 4% bomb.

Branch caught 15% of his passes outside the numbers and deep as compared to Gaffney's 34%. And with Branch, Tom Brady was throwing him the ball and not Grossman or Beck.



Even with a healthy Gronk in the AFCCG, the Ravens were still flooding the middle of the field and slowing us down.



The difference is that with MULTIPLE guys that can threaten outside the numbers, the defense has more space on the field than they have to account for as opposed to having just one guy that can do that, or no guys (as is the case in 2011). More is better everytime. That's why, outside of horrific injury, this move is a head scratcher.

Gaffney provides/provided:

1. Second threat to every level of the field.

2. Body to spell guys like Branch depending on down and distance/situation.

3. Injury insurance to guys like Lloyd or Branch.

Again, more is better. You even stated yourself earlier in the thread that you want to see Gaffney back and are hoping to see him back. Why are you now attempting to argue against that?
Tremendous post and the best argument in this thread so far.

Thanks for the research on Jabar Gaffney's and Deion Branch's splits last season.
 
Can you reference these reports? Because, from everything I heard (this includes posters here), Gaffney was having a solid camp before injury and his connection with Brady was still very good.



See the reasons I listed in my last post as being reasons for valid concern. But I do agree with you that I hope they bring him back.

Shalize Manza Young was on the radio the other day saying he was struggling and looked lost at times. The host (I can't remember who) said he heard rumors that Gaffney came into camp with a sense of entitlement and didn't put in the effort because he felt the roster spot was a lock. Again it is a rumor so I wasn't going to bring it up. I have seen Bedard say that Gaffney started strong and then fell off quickly.
 
This is a discussion about Gaffney and the WRs. It's not a discussion about TEs or RBs, and any attempt to bring them into the conversation is just an attempt to avoid the actual topic at hand by conflating positions and roles.

This battle was fought all season long. It's disappointing to see posters have already begun to willfully ignore the results.

I got into this thread late...sorry if I confused the issue.

I'm disappointed and surprised that they cut Gaffney. I think he would be helpful. I do think that they have two excellent WRs in Welker and Lloyd, and I think Branch is still pretty useful. If Welker and Lloyd stay healthy, the Pats have a really, really good set of WRs. The Colts, during Peyton's monster years, essentially had two WRs: Harrison and Wayne. They added Clark but since he's a TE and not a WR, he wouldn't count for this discussion.

The key was that Wayne and Harrison were always healthy. And because they were always healthy, they were always on the field. No real need for a #4 WR, for example, when your #1 and #2 are always playing.

There's only so much money a team has available. The Pats decided to use a chunk of their cap on Gronk and Hernandez instead of a whole lot of big-time WRs. Hernandez played from a WR position a lot of the time, which is something he'll probably do again this year. So they could easily shift into a situation where their 4 WRs are Welker, Lloyd, Branch, and Hernandez, with Gronk and Fells at TE. That's pretty dynamic.

I would love to see them be ridiculously good and ridiculously deep at every position. You and I probably agree that Gaffney made sense here for numerous reasons. But there has to be a reason they cut him, right?

What if Demps shows he can run a few basic midrange to deep routes pretty effectively? Certainly he has the speed to "take the top off" the defense. If he has any hands and route-running ability, teams will *have* to respect his speed. Have him line up in the backfield, where a safety or LB will be charged with covering him, then send him in motion wide, isolating him against that much slower player. Suddenly the defense will need to rotate all kinds of help that way because he can be by any LB or S in the blink of an eye. With the defense rolling coverage that way, it opens everything else up.

So maybe they feel like a guy like Demps really can do some special things in that area. I don't know. None of us knows what their plans actually are.
 
The New England Patriots will not be facing the aforementioned teams in the 2012-13 AFC Playoffs. Let's not as Patriots fans lower ourselves to those low standards.

My point was just showing the Pats' WR depth compared to teams around the league. BTW, the Pats could face the Bills or even the Jets in the AFC playoffs.
 
My point was just showing the Pats' WR depth compared to teams around the league. BTW, the Pats could face the Bills or even the Jets in the AFC playoffs.
Let's not kid ourselves:

Bungalow Bills 8-8
NY Jesters 6-10
LOLphins 4-12
 
I have seen Bedard say that Gaffney started strong and then fell off quickly.
A quadricep(s) injury can slow down any football player.

Reference Andre Carter and a torn left quadricep(s) muscle/tendon.
 
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