2011 Offseason

[Jackson 2]

You are a full of it. The slot receiver isn't only the #3 receiver, and you prance on as some kind of football expert? Ever here of motion or shifting pre-snap? On the play that iced the game against the Chargers, it was Wilson that communicated a shift with Revis before the snap and covered Vincent Jackson and made the play for the INT.

Do you just throw whatever you can pull out of your rear hoping it sticks, and that somebody will buy it?

Fact is, Wilson has made huge strides this year, while McCourtey has been burned like a rented mule!

Burned like a rented mule? Your use of metaphors is consistent with your football acumen, or lack thereof. You know as well as I do that Wilson was "beaten (not burned) like a rented mule" a relatively limited number of times last year only because he wasn't good enough to be on the field often enough. The Chargers game? You actually have the nerve to suggest that Wilson or anyone else helped the "Jests" win that game? It was handed over to you by Rivers and "Norv the All-time Choke." So, don't come around here pulling terms terms such as "motion" or "shifting pre-snap" out of your ass trying to impress people with your football knowledge because it isn't working.

 

[IllegalContact]

Burned like a rented mule? Your use of metaphors is consistent with your football acumen, or lack thereof. You know as well as I do that Wilson was "beaten (not burned) like a rented mule" a relatively limited number of times last year only because he wasn't good enough to be on the field often enough. The Chargers game? You actually have the nerve to suggest that Wilson or anyone else helped the "Jests" win that game? It was handed over to you by Rivers and "Norv the All-time Choke." So, don't come around here pulling terms terms such as "motion" or "shifting pre-snap" out of your ass trying to impress people with your football knowledge because it isn't working.

how are rented mules burned?

where can you rent a mule?

please......give me norv as OC and wade as DC any time

 

[IllegalContact]

First, you are making an assumption that the 4-3 defense is the reason why the defense has had problems. The Pats were primarily in a four man front last year.

Second, you assume the problem with this defense is with the front seven in particular the DE/OLB position. Both players are an upgrade over Tully Banta Cain.

missed this......

so in what way have carter and anderson proven any more of an effective solution than TBC? not seeing it yet.....and I am no TBC fan

 

[Rob0729]

not too swift with the language, are ya buddy? WTF do you not understand about "NOT GETTING ON THE FIELD" .... are you too stupid to tell the difference between Jones-Drew and Vereen?

Where did you ever say get on the field? Here is what you wrote:

to me, if a 2nd rounder is not a steady contributor in year 1, slap the bust label on them.....there are certain exceptions......QB takes time to develop for some.....but anyone else, if you're drafted in rounds 1 and 2 and you don't produce in year 1, you are a bust.

BTW, my bad about including MJD. The rest fall under this definition. I could find more.

which one is vereen like? how about dowling? right now, combined, they don't even add up to chad jackson

This is a red herring. Most of the ones listed were considered busts by your definition. The argument was never that they were like Vereen or Dowling, they were not steady contributors their rookie season. Now you want to change the argument.

do you know the difference between these being a productive rookie and not stepping onto the field?

I do. You apparently don't since I was listing players who by your definition is a bust which wasn't that they weren't stepping on the field.

the kicker is that dowling showed up as advertised and the biggest fear (injury prone) has been realized....if there is any glimmer of an argument, it could be made for WR's, but sorry, that does not happen with the pats......the only guys who would fall into this category are troy brown and david givens, and they were drafted much later.

LOL! Dowling's injury history has been overblown. He missed one gaem his first three years in college and seven last year and that is it.

It is your argument that is foolish because you say that a sample size of three players who tore their ACLs (one player twice) out of all the draft picks is proof that Dowling is done because he had a far less sever injury that landed him on IR.

BTW, Tate doesn't even count in that argument since he tore his ACL before he was drafted and spent the beginning of the season on PUP and actually made the active roster at the end of the season.

you really want to stick with this argument?

as for vrabel, he was a full time contributor almost immediately, and not sure what he ahs to do with supporting your argument since he was signed in the spring time by a man who had a plan at the time

LOL......you're a red herring

well, you are the expert on red herring since your post is full of them. I will conceed this point. Just because you will just change the argument when you are losing like you have a dozen times in this thread.

First, Brian Water was a desperation move because the Pats had an imaginary deep hole at guard that he didn't fill in the draft even though the Pats returned all their starters on the o-line.

Then you changed that a second round pick needs to be a steady contributor in his rookie season to not bust (which a ludicrious standard to begin with) to change the argument that they have to get on the field.

Then it was the Pats never add anyone who can contribute after training camp starts even though I pointed to Washington and Andruzzi and how the Pats have a history of adding players after the trade deadline. And BTW I forgot to mention Jabar Gaffney who was added a month into the 2006 season.

 

[Rob0729]

missed this......

so in what way have carter and anderson proven any more of an effective solution than TBC? not seeing it yet.....and I am no TBC fan

Well since you clearly haven't watched the games, it will be beyond you. Carter has five sacks and Anderson has 4.5. Carter has as many as TBC had in 16 games and Anderson is a half a sack behind . Watching Carter you would see he is the best pass rusher the Pats have had since at least 2009. TBC was relegated to back up duty last year and wasn't very good.

If you can't admit Carter is better than TBC was last year, you are just exposing your self as a fraud and/or Jets troll. I'm betting on the latter.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I had really high hopes for this offseason, the Patriots were loaded with draft picks and cap space. Some additional youth and depth and a difference maker on defense in the front seven and this team was ready to roll.

Instead they went in the opposite direction, adding offensive draft picks and a bunch of old retreads on defense.

Not only did they take a huge gamble this year but they set back the overall rebuilding process.

Very disappointing.

I'm baffled by this. I know people have short memories, but let's get real.

There WAS no 2011 offseason to speak of for half a year - and when the offseason did take place it was upside down and backwards.

Instead of taking veteran players in free agency and filling in gaps with young promising rookies, there WAS NO FREE AGENCY prior to the draft.

And because of the lockout there was no option to get rookies into development programs or even to see what actual NFL skills they actually had.

Then, amid that information vacuum, when Free Agency finally did happen it happened in a very short period of time with limited time to prepare, and without the context of knowing the skills of the rookies.

And then once free agents, rookies, and veterans were finally assembled as a team there was very limited time to get everyone up to speed and on the same page.

Now, did I expect a veteran team with an elite QB and great defensive coach to show me more than I've seen thus far?

Absolutely.

And given the fact that other teams had the same challenges I expected a veteran team like the Patriots to have an advantage over their opponents - akin to the advantage that's helped Green Bay on their way to what could be a record season.

But am I shocked or surprised that having an upside down and backwards offseason resulted in a team with under developed rookies and out of shape or mis-matched free agents?

Not really.

Let's get real folks. The 2011 season is an aberration in the NFL.

Period.

For some teams that's presented an advantage and for some teams that's resulted in a disadvantage.

For a team that was effectively rebuilding in 2010 like the Patriots, that wound up being a disadvantage.

 

[Deus Irae]

ummm yeah.......he started the 1st 2 games and sucked, got hurt, milled around for a few weeks and then got IR'd...even josh barrett outlasted him

this guys is even worse than butler

Ahh.... that's the problem. You don't realize that he didn't suck, at all, for a rookie.

 

[JetFan1]

Burned like a rented mule? Your use of metaphors is consistent with your football acumen, or lack thereof. You know as well as I do that Wilson was "beaten (not burned) like a rented mule" a relatively limited number of times last year only because he wasn't good enough to be on the field often enough. The Chargers game? You actually have the nerve to suggest that Wilson or anyone else helped the "Jests" win that game? It was handed over to you by Rivers and "Norv the All-time Choke." So, don't come around here pulling terms terms such as "motion" or "shifting pre-snap" out of your ass trying to impress people with your football knowledge because it isn't working.

Really, burned, beaten, it's the same concept, so you mock me on the selection of the word.

Yes, the Charger game, Wilson made a great play and was covering Jackson, which was my point in pointing out Robhomer's shameless post about Wilson only covering #3 and lesser WR's.

Sure, give no credit to the Jets D, it was the Chargers giving us the game.

I guess the Bills did too...

 

[IllegalContact]

Well since you clearly haven't watched the games, it will be beyond you. Carter has five sacks and Anderson has 4.5. Carter has as many as TBC had in 16 games and Anderson is a half a sack behind . Watching Carter you would see he is the best pass rusher the Pats have had since at least 2009. TBC was relegated to back up duty last year and wasn't very good.

If you can't admit Carter is better than TBC was last year, you are just exposing your self as a fraud and/or Jets troll. I'm betting on the latter.

Oh, I've watched them....it just seems as though I understand the game a bit more than you do

 

[IllegalContact]

Ahh.... that's the problem. You don't realize that he didn't suck, at all, for a rookie.

yes he did....but don't let that stop you

 

[Jackson 2]

how are rented mules burned?

where can you rent a mule?

please......give me norv as OC and wade as DC any time

Not sure about where you can rent a mule, but you can find all the jackasses you want at GG and JI...

 

[Rob0729]

Really, burned, beaten, it's the same concept, so you mock me on the selection of the word.

Yes, the Charger game, Wilson made a great play and was covering Jackson, which was my point in pointing out Robhomer's shameless post about Wilson only covering #3 and lesser WR's.

Sure, give no credit to the Jets D, it was the Chargers giving us the game.

I guess the Bills did too...

I never said only, but more likely than not. Typically unless you play the Patriots, the slot WR is not the best WR on a team. And even then, the Jets match Revis up on Welker a lot.

I love that I am a shameless homer fot correctly stating the responsibility of a slot CB/nickelback is usually to cover the lesser WR. Not always, but more often than not. And yes, they can cover the primary WR at times depending on the receiver routes and the coverage.

Your obsession with me is cute. I might have to get a restraining order though.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh, I've watched them....it just seems as though I understand the game a bit more than you do

yes he did....but don't let that stop you

Whomever you were replying to with that first quote just got a smoking gun about your lack of understanding. Nice job!

 

[Rob0729]

Oh, I've watched them....it just seems as though I understand the game a bit more than you do

LOL! You prove again and again that you don't, but if you want to keep thinking that. Yeah, TBC last year was better than Carter this year. That's why the Pats cut TBC and he is currently sitting at home right now Apparently, you understand the game more than Belichick too.

 

[IllegalContact]

Where did you ever say get on the field? Here is what you wrote:.

I said it in response to you a few times......maybe you can't read.....this is what my point has been since the first moment

BTW, my bad about including MJD. The rest fall under this definition. I could find more.

that's not the only one that's your bad....you're loaded with them

This is a red herring. Most of the ones listed were considered busts by your definition. The argument was never that they were like Vereen or Dowling, they were not steady contributors their rookie season. Now you want to change the argument. I do.

You apparently don't since I was listing players who by your definition is a bust which wasn't that they weren't stepping on the field. .

either you have the comprehension of bag of sand or you backpeddling worse than anyone I have ever seen

LOL! Dowling's injury history has been overblown. He missed one gaem his first three years in college and seven last year and that is it


It is your argument that is foolish because you say that a sample size of three players who tore their ACLs (one player twice) out of all the draft picks is proof that Dowling is done because he had a far less sever injury that landed him on IR.

NO......one more time....I say he's done because rookie high draft picks who don't get on the field as rookies rarely pan out (technically, he got on the field.....but I am talking over the course of a season) ... he's a bust.....you'll be able to admit you heard it here first

BTW, Tate doesn't even count in that argument since he tore his ACL before he was drafted and spent the beginning of the season on PUP and actually made the active roster at the end of the season..

neener....neener......he doesn't count....WTF is this.....you have an excuse for everything......just stick to the bottom line, buddy

well, you are the expert on red herring since your post is full of them. I will conceed this point. Just because you will just change the argument when you are losing like you have a dozen times in this thread.

First, Brian Water was a desperation move because the Pats had an imaginary deep hole at guard that he didn't fill in the draft even though the Pats returned all their starters on the o-line.

Then you changed that a second round pick needs to be a steady contributor in his rookie season to not bust (which a ludicrious standard to begin with) to change the argument that they have to get on the field.

Then it was the Pats never add anyone who can contribute after training camp starts even though I pointed to Washington and Andruzzi and how the Pats have a history of adding players after the trade deadline. And BTW I forgot to mention Jabar Gaffney who was added a month into the 2006 season.

huh? dude....stop spinning

oooh....Jabar Gaffney....FRed coleman anyone? LMFAO

dud...just stop slobbering

 

[Brarrell]

I was Shocked, that the team didn't take an OLB or DE when this was a great year for D-lineman. Especially since the team hasn't had a pass rush in years, it was a real area of need.

Afterwards i like the Solder pick but trading the second 1st rounder to a team (NO) that could end up in the same place in the draft i couldn't understand, there were still a number of quality D Lineman still on the board.

So everyone agrees BB is one of the top football minds in football so how do you explain:

Asante Samuel a true playmaker?

Richard Seymour a difference maker on the DL and then waiting 2 years for a draft pick?

They have not replaced either guy and spent more money trying to replace them instead of just coming to a contract agreement. Can you truly say the Pats wouldn't be a better team without these guys. Very good to great players make everyone around them better.

I am not a Michael Felgar fan by any means but on todays show there was a comparison on how the Jets drafted "trading up for players" vs the Pats trading down for multiple picks you know that value thing and the last 3 years you just don't want to know how lopsided it is towards the Jets., 30 picks for us 12 for them and they have won the draft wars.

Prime free agents don't even bother with us because as Mr. Kraft puts it" if money is the bottom line this isn't the team for them" really! This from a guy who is all about the bottom line.

BB has sold his soul to the Krafts who won a couple of superbowls on the cheap but one thing that never changes in any sport is talent. Great coaches have talent thats how they became great coaches. This is all about money and the Krafts are behind this downfall of this team and eventually BB will be the sacred lamb. The media is now turning on BB and they should but the real culprits are the Krafts who thought that winning on the cheap was the way to go.

IMO this all started in 2006 when they wouldn't keep Brady's prime recievers in their prime Givens and Branch and the way they make all their rookies play out their rookie contracts. As much as i love the Pats some pain needs to be felt we are the 3rd wealthiest team in the league but every year we pretend to be the Jacksonville Jaguars as far as drafting and pursuing FA's.

 

[IllegalContact]

LOL! You prove again and again that you don't, but if you want to keep thinking that. Yeah, TBC last year was better than Carter this year. That's why the Pats cut TBC and he is currently sitting at home right now Apparently, you understand the game more than Belichick too.

LOL, the pats are on course to have the worst defense since rod rust, and you're sitting here trying to explain: 'ummm...yes, but anderson and carter are better'

NO THEY'RE NOT.....if they were, the pats would be paying a 3-4.....at least TBC could play in the 3-4......

I'd bet you that if BB had to do it over again, the defensive roster would not look like it does.

 

[IllegalContact]

So everyone agrees BB is one of the top football minds in football so how do you explain:

Asante Samuel a true playmaker?

Richard Seymour a difference maker on the DL and then waiting 2 years for a draft pick?

They have not replaced either guy and spent more money trying to replace them instead of just coming to a contract agreement. Can you truly say the Pats wouldn't be a better team without these guys. Very good to great players make everyone around them better.

I am not a Michael Felgar fan by any means but on todays show there was a comparison on how the Jets drafted "trading up for players" vs the Pats trading down for multiple picks you know that value thing and the last 3 years you just don't want to know how lopsided it is towards the Jets., 30 picks for us 12 for them and they have won the draft wars.

Prime free agents don't even bother with us because as Mr. Kraft puts it" if money is the bottom line this isn't the team for them" really! This from a guy who is all about the bottom line.

BB has sold his soul to the Krafts who won a couple of superbowls on the cheap but one thing that never changes in any sport is talent. Great coaches have talent thats how they became great coaches. This is all about money and the Krafts are behind this downfall of this team and eventually BB will be the sacred lamb. The media is now turning on BB and they should but the real culprits are the Krafts who thought that winning on the cheap was the way to go.

IMO this all started in 2006 when they wouldn't keep Brady's prime recievers in their prime Givens and Branch and the way they make all their rookies play out their rookie contracts. As much as i love the Pats some pain needs to be felt we are the 3rd wealthiest team in the league but every year we pretend to be the Jacksonville Jaguars as far as drafting and pursuing FA's.

your typical kool-aid guzzler will tell you that the pats could not have afforded to keep them......

 

[Rob0729]

I said it in response to you a few times......maybe you can't read.....this is what my point has been since the first moment






that's not the only one that's your bad....you're loaded with them






either you have the comprehension of bag of sand or you backpeddling worse than anyone I have ever seen




NO......one more time....I say he's done because rookie high draft picks who don't get on the field as rookies rarely pan out (technically, he got on the field.....but I am talking over the course of a season) ... he's a bust.....you'll be able to admit you heard it here first





neener....neener......he doesn't count....WTF is this.....you have an excuse for everything......just stick to the bottom line, buddy




huh? dude....stop spinning

oooh....Jabar Gaffney....FRed coleman anyone? LMFAO

dud...just stop slobbering

LOL! You are too funny. I am convinced that you are a Jets fan now. No Pats fan could be this stupid.

 

[Rob0729]

LOL, the pats are on course to have the worst defense since rod rust, and you're sitting here trying to explain: 'ummm...yes, but anderson and carter are better'

NO THEY'RE NOT.....if they were, the pats would be paying a 3-4.....at least TBC could play in the 3-4......

I'd bet you that if BB had to do it over again, the defensive roster would not look like it does.

You Jets fans aren't too bright. When did playing in a 3-4 or 4-3 make any difference. So Reggie White wasn't one of the greatest DEs of all time becaise he only played in a 4-3?

I've got news for you, you idiot! The type of defense a player can play has nothing to do how good he is as an overall player.