Prediction: Ras-I Dowling is the new starting S

[shakadave]

What do you base your feeling he is a dummy on?

From hearing him interviewed. I'm glad to hear his reputation is to the contrary --- hopefully I'm wrong!

We must also hope he is as fast as ever after his various injuries.

 

[Ring 6]

What is going to happen in the area of the Safeties is really an interesting topic if only because the possible answers are so varied.

Cavtroop brought up an interesting point that shouldn't be dismissed. I think the old stereotypes of 2 cover or zone CBs with a free ball hawking safety and a bigger strong S to cover TEs and help in the run game HAVE indeed become blurred in the era of so many varied combinations of nickel and dime coverages

I'm not really talking about stereotypes but that we cut a guy who strength was coverage and we have not been great at covering the middle of the field, so replacing him with a bigger guy who is not as suited to running with receivers seems a dubious move to me.

Don't dismiss the possibility of Molden assuming the Wilson role in this defense. He has the size and the athletic skills to be an excellent coverage S. Maybe the position change could energize a rather disappointing start to his career.

I'm looking at him as an inactive or st only guy at this point.

The Dowling scenario is the common wisdom and has been since he was drafted. However I kind of liked what little I saw of him playing a cover corner vs the Giants. I think acquitted himself very well and was the kind of physical CB that could cause trouble for bigger WRs on the outside. JMHO of course.

I'd rather see him on the field at S than on the bench at corner.

If pass coverage is the issue back there, Brian Dawkins, (at this stage of his career) IS NOT the answer. I would very be surprised if he's brought in.

I havent seen him mentioned, and agree with you.

As for Barrett, he's the great question mark in all this. BB has kept him around for a long time without any benefit for a reason. Hopefully he's more than just a big banger back therre.

I don't know that keeping him a year on IR is telling, we did that with Kliff Kingsbury among others as well. Barrett also was regarded as a top special teamer, and there is no doubt BB would keep one of those around on IR for a year without a second thought.
We will see. I am excited to see what he can do, but I don't see a great fit as a starter or full time player.

 

[Ring 6]

From hearing him interviewed. I'm glad to hear his reputation is to the contrary --- hopefully I'm wrong!

We must also hope he is as fast as ever after his various injuries.

I think if you base intellect of a 22 year old from a different part of the country and a different background, ethnicity, and culture than you, you nare making a big mistake.

 

[Tasco]

I don't know his skillset, but couldn't Antuwan Molden be an option too then? He's more or less the same size as Dowling.
He's coming from a DB-starving team like HOU, so if they're cutting him, they really see no upside I suppose; that makes me a bit skeptical, but I'm trying to think about all possible options, since I think that going with Chung, Barret, Brown and Idehigbo only is too risky. Imo we need either a conversion project from our CBs or a vet safety.
Dowling played some S against the Giants in the goal line packages, so maybe that's an indication.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

That's what I thought the plan was the minute BB drafted him, was for either RID or Arrington to be moved to S. Our CB depth was already fine to me (I'm higher on Butler than most people here, making us 4 deep at CB at the time of the selection plus Wilhite as a decent #5). I had a feeling Merriweather's days were numbered, though obviously I would have preferred trading him.

I thought for sure Sanders would be kept around to mentor RID/Arrington or just in case neither could pick up the position. I guess he just had that bad of a preseason. But one of the 2 switching to safety had always made alot of sense to me and makes even more sense now.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know his skillset, but couldn't Antuwan Molden be an option too then? He's more or less the same size as Dowling.
He's coming from a DB-starving team like HOU, so if they're cutting him, they really see no upside I suppose; that makes me a bit skeptical, but I'm trying to think about all possible options, since I think that going with Chung, Barret, Brown and Idehigbo only is too risky. Imo we need either a conversion project from our CBs or a vet safety.
Dowling played some S against the Giants in the goal line packages, so maybe that's an indication.

Do you hold it more against Molden that he was on a terrible pass defense and cut, or that he couldnt get on the field on that defense. He wasnt responsible for them sucking but he couldnt beat anyone out either.
I think Molden is here to play sts, but perhaps BB sees a safety where Houston saw a corner.

 

[rojo8401]

According to Madden 12, Dowling is my starting free safety (I cut Meriweather).

 

[Funktopus]

What is going to happen in the area of the Safeties is really an interesting topic if only because the possible answers are so varied.

Cavtroop brought up an interesting point that shouldn't be dismissed. I think the old stereotypes of 2 cover or zone CBs with a free ball hawking safety and a bigger strong S to cover TEs and help in the run game HAVE indeed become blurred in the era of so many varied combinations of nickel and dime coverages.

Maybe cover 3 will deploy Bodden, Mcourty, Chung and Barrett annd cover 4 will substitute Dowling for Barrett. Then, Dowling only has to learn what he needs to know for quarters. Make's you wonder just what it means to be a safety.

This reminds me a little of BBs recent comments on the base defense, 3-4 or 4-3.

 

[ralmat55]

I'm not sure why Dowling or any corner has to make a full-time move to safety. Suddenly, this team has multiple CBs who have the size and are physical enough to play some safety. Could it be that game to game any of the CBs could be used to cover some safety responsibilities.

I'm not a devout "In Bill I trust" guy like some, but, at this point, he must feel comfortable that Sergio Brown or Josh Barrett can do the job or some veteran safety would already be here. Just like Brian Waters being signed when it became clear that Connelly was a liability as a starter.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure why Dowling or any corner has to make a full-time move to safety. Suddenly, this team has multiple CBs who have the size and are physical enough to play some safety. Could it be that game to game any of the CBs could be used to cover some safety responsibilities.

I'm not a devout "In Bill I trust" guy like some, but, at this point, he must feel comfortable that Sergio Brown or Josh Barrett can do the job or some veteran safety would already be here. Just like Brian Waters being signed when it became clear that Connelly was a liability as a starter.

Or he is comfortable that Dowling can do the job, which was the basis of this discussion.

 

[Tasco]

Do you hold it more against Molden that he was on a terrible pass defense and cut, or that he couldnt get on the field on that defense. He wasnt responsible for them sucking but he couldnt beat anyone out either.
I think Molden is here to play sts, but perhaps BB sees a safety where Houston saw a corner.

Well the terrible pass defense wasn't his fault for sure, since he played very sparingly.
This obviously leads to your second point: even in such a bad pass defense he wasn't able to beat anyone out, that's surely what I hold against him.
Maybe he's also a Butler replacement, he didn't look bad against the Giants, but that was against 3rd stringers, so I'm holding back any judgment until I have seen more.

 

[TheSolderKing]

an intelligent thought but I personally HATE the idea. I want Ras to be our Physical DB that vharrases WR's as he plays opposite McCourty

Plz BB keep Ras @ CB

 

[patfanken]

I'm not really talking about stereotypes but that we cut a guy who strength was coverage and we have not been great at covering the middle of the field, so replacing him with a bigger guy who is not as suited to running with receivers seems a dubious move to me.

Well clearly he wasn't good in coverage 2010 and evidently hadn't shown any improvement through camp. But my point was more general. It was in response to the common wisdom that secondary roles are clearly defined these days.

I'm looking at him as an inactive or st only guy at this point.

you are probably right. But you have to also consider that BB knew about his lack luster play in Houston, but there obviously SOMETHING there that caused him to take a shot at him, and even more importantly, he must have shown SOMETHING in the week he has been her that caused him to keep him on the roster, especially when it meant losing Maneri and Yeatman I don't think BB would have used that valuable roster spot IF his ultimate upside was merely as back up game day inactive

I'd rather see him on the field at S than on the bench at corner.

the most likely scenario, at least in the fan's view, is to have him move to S. But tell me AJ, what were your impressions of Dowling's performance vs the Giants. Did you like him as much as I did on the outside. Granted it was only the briefest of looks against 2nd rate competition, but.....

BTW if Dowling is the 5th DB, he won't be seeing much of the bench regardless of where he plays. Dowling IMHO is the match up key. Each week there will be someone where his siz e will make him a good match up. He's gong to see plenty of action

don't know that keeping him a year on IR is telling, we did that with Kliff Kingsbury among others as well. Barrett also was regarded as a top special teamer, and there is no doubt BB would keep one of those around on IR for a year without a second thought.We will see. I am excited to see what he can do, but I don't see a great fit as a starter or full time player.

I would have completely agreed with you before I saw the numbers from the combine comparing Barrett's athletic skill with Merriweather's. I know it doesn't always translate to the field, but its interesting to know that the raw material is capable of being a lot more than just a big slow SS.

 

[Patspsycho]

I agree that he has a nose for the open field play, but I think if we move him to safety, we take away two things he is very effective at: being disruptive at the line of scrimmage, and having the strength and toughness to stop the run. We've seen him stop a RB stone cold more than few times in college.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree that he has a nose for the open field play, but I think if we move him to safety, we take away two things he is very effective at: being disruptive at the line of scrimmage, and having the strength and toughness to stop the run. We've seen him stop a RB stone cold more than few times in college.

But safeties have greater run support responsibilities than corners.
If we are going to start playing a lot of bump and run then his physical play jamming WRs can help with that, but BB has never been a big bump and run guy.
Also, if you keep him at corner he isn't playing bump and run from the bench with McCourty and Bodden out there.
Isnt McCourty, Bodden, Chung, Dowling better than
McCourty, Bodden, Chung, Barrett/Brown if in fact we are saying Dowling belongs on the field?

 

[ralmat55]

I understood why the Patriots converted E. Wilson to safety in 03. They were in a pinch having been unable to redo Lawyer Milloy's contract and were too cap strapped to get another veteran. But, as successful as that move was at the time, you can argue that the move was detrimental in the long-term. When the patriots made the move with Wilson, they had Ty Law, Ty Poole,and Asante Samuel to play corner. Two years later when both Law and Poole were gone and Duane Starks was playing corner. I wished the patriots had left Wilson at corner to continue his development and partner with Samuel and Randall Gay.

If you think Dowling will become a quality starting CB, moving him to safety is a short-sighted move which this team with veteran options and cap space to burn doesn't have to make. Do you really want to be one injury away from Darius Butler being your nickel back?

 

[Rob0729]

I have been saying since he was drafted that he would be Meriweather replacement. You watch his highlight reels in college and he plays like a safety. If you didn't know where he lined up and watched his highlight reel, you might think he was a safety.

Personally, I think Dowling has the potential to be a good CB, but a great safety.

 

[BradyFTW!]

What is going to happen in the area of the Safeties is really an interesting topic if only because the possible answers are so varied.

Cavtroop brought up an interesting point that shouldn't be dismissed. I think the old stereotypes of 2 cover or zone CBs with a free ball hawking safety and a bigger strong S to cover TEs and help in the run game HAVE indeed become blurred in the era of so many varied combinations of nickel and dime coverages

Don't dismiss the possibility of Molden assuming the Wilson role in this defense. He has the size and the athletic skills to be an excellent coverage S. Maybe the position change could energize a rather disappointing start to his career.

The Dowling scenario is the common wisdom and has been since he was drafted. However I kind of liked what little I saw of him playing a cover corner vs the Giants. I think acquitted himself very well and was the kind of physical CB that could cause trouble for bigger WRs on the outside. JMHO of course.

If pass coverage is the issue back there, Brian Dawkins, (at this stage of his career) IS NOT the answer. I would very be surprised if he's brought in.

As for Barrett, he's the great question mark in all this. BB has kept him around for a long time without any benefit for a reason. Hopefully he's more than just a big banger back therre.

+1 for Molden- since we're talking about college CBs who projected as possible NFL safeties, he should be mentioned as well. Barrett, Molden, and Dowling are all potential answers that we have on the roster- can't really gauge much more than that until we see them on the field.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Maybe cover 3 will deploy Bodden, Mcourty, Chung and Barrett annd cover 4 will substitute Dowling for Barrett. Then, Dowling only has to learn what he needs to know for quarters. Make's you wonder just what it means to be a safety.

This reminds me a little of BBs recent comments on the base defense, 3-4 or 4-3.

That also brings to mind an interview that Pepper Johnson gave a while back, about Cunningham last year a I believe, where he said that the team philosophy with rookies was to start off by giving them small responsibilities--play a specific role in a specific formation--and give them time to get acclimated to that role so that they could take ownership of it and be comfortable with it. Once that happens, the team adds more responsibility, and the whole process repeats it self until eventually, in the case of a guy like Chung, he's on the field pretty much all the time. The downside to that, it seemed to me, was that eventually that player's presence on the field pretty much tips your hand re: what he's going to do, but the upside is that you're putting him in a position to do what he does best.

It was an interesting outlook, and I wouldn't be surprised if they take the same incremental approach with Dowling, wherever he ends up playing.

 

[Ring 6]

I understood why the Patriots converted E. Wilson to safety in 03. They were in a pinch having been unable to redo Lawyer Milloy's contract and were too cap strapped to get another veteran. But, as successful as that move was at the time, you can argue that the move was detrimental in the long-term. When the patriots made the move with Wilson, they had Ty Law, Ty Poole,and Asante Samuel to play corner. Two years later when both Law and Poole were gone and Duane Starks was playing corner. I wished the patriots had left Wilson at corner to continue his development and partner with Samuel and Randall Gay.

If you think Dowling will become a quality starting CB, moving him to safety is a short-sighted move which this team with veteran options and cap space to burn doesn't have to make. Do you really want to be one injury away from Darius Butler being your nickel back?

If Wilson were able to be better at corner he could have been moved back.
I don't have a problem with Butler as a nickel. Think about this: When did we have a nickel corner people on this board didnt say sucked?