Prediction: Ras-I Dowling is the new starting S

[Ring 6]

Berry is clearly more explosive and quicker with Barrett having a small edge in straight line speed. Berry would be better covering a slot receiver although we'd likely have a CB in for that but Barrett should be able to cover a ton of ground on pass plays.

I see virtually no difference in the quickness metrics. The one thing that stands out is the vertical which is mind boggling.
Of course, if you could determine the quality of a football player like this, every team would want the same guy and there would be no such thing as a bust.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I disagree with your assessment of Mays (not the not a fan part) but to me he is an exceptional athlete who just has no football instincts.

Depends on what you're looking for, I'd say. You can find a lot of NFL safeties with significantly better 3 cone and shuttle times, if you're willing to take less on size and 40 time. He's a very good athlete for sure, but a guy like Molden, for example, is just a different physical profile that I think might be more desirable in the role that we're looking for:

Molden:
Height: 6006
Weight: 198
40 Yrd Dash: 4.39
20 Yrd Dash: 2.55
10 Yrd Dash: 1.43
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.14
3-Cone Drill: 6.85

Speaking purely in terms of athletic ability, the difference between Molden and Mays/Barrett seems to be one of size vs. quickness, and for the safety that we're going to start opposite Chung and have on the field with Spikes, I would probably take quickness.

On closer inspection, if you de-emphasize the 40 time and just look at 3 cone, shuttle, vertical and broad jump, and 10/20 yard dash, here's a closer comparable:

Barrett:
20 Yrd Dash: 2.50
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
Vertical Jump: 31 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'01"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.27
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

Player B:
20 Yrd Dash: 2.57
10 Yrd Dash: 1.49
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 9'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.24
3-Cone Drill: 7.11

Player B is Chung. At this point, though, it's really just reminding me why I think obsessing over measurables is dumb. It helps clarify the raw material that you're working with re: Barrett, but that's not going to make or break him as a player.

 

[Triumph]

I don't see how anyone can have any disputes regarding Meriweather's speed. And I mean on-field football speed here. 90% of the time he was actually involved in a play on the field, he was finishing up the play and was there WAY late.

Brandon Meriweather was a terrible safety for us... I don't know why more people aren't comfortable saying that. He dished out some big hits (half of which yielded a penalty and/or fine) and got the D fired up a bit... but for him to be called a "Pro Bowl" safety is as big a joke as any as far as the Pro Bowl goes.

Meriweather was drafted in 07 the same year that Samuel was leaving. Meriweather played CB at U of Miami and I cant help thinking that the Pats were after Revis until the Jets scooped him up. Meriweather was the booby prize.

 

[BelichickFan]

I see virtually no difference in the quickness metrics. The one thing that stands out is the vertical which is mind boggling.

I was referring to Shuttle and Cone time, you are right on VJ; bottom line, Barrett is an excellent athlete for his size.

 

[Ring 6]

Depends on what you're looking for, I'd say. You can find a lot of NFL safeties with significantly better 3 cone and shuttle times, if you're willing to take less on size and 40 time. He's a very good athlete for sure, but a guy like Molden, for example, is just a different physical profile that I think might be more desirable in the role that we're looking for:

Molden:
Height: 6006
Weight: 198
40 Yrd Dash: 4.39
20 Yrd Dash: 2.55
10 Yrd Dash: 1.43
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.14
3-Cone Drill: 6.85

Speaking purely in terms of athletic ability, the difference between Molden and Mays/Barrett seems to be one of size vs. quickness, and for the safety that we're going to start opposite Chung and have on the field with Spikes, I would probably take quickness.

On closer inspection, if you de-emphasize the 40 time and just look at 3 cone, shuttle, vertical and broad jump, and 10/20 yard dash, here's a closer comparable:

Barrett:
20 Yrd Dash: 2.50
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
Vertical Jump: 31 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'01"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.27
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

Player B:
20 Yrd Dash: 2.57
10 Yrd Dash: 1.49
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 9'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.24
3-Cone Drill: 7.11

Player B is Chung. At this point, though, it's really just reminding me why I think obsessing over measurables is dumb. It helps clarify the raw material that you're working with re: Barrett, but that's not going to make or break him as a player.

They have to play football, not compete in drills, right.
I would bet you can find guys who couldn't make a team with better measurables than guys in the HOF.
Not to mention those are a snapshot in time and the difference of a 10th of a second in a 40 yard dash between 2 guys is not something that cant change over time. Not to mention my understanding has always been that people working on clocking a time spend most of their time working on getting out of the blocks. The ability to get out of the blocks quicker on a track doesn't really translate much to playing DB in the NFL.

 

[Ring 6]

I was referring to Shuttle and Cone time, you are right on VJ; bottom line, Barrett is an excellent athlete for his size.

Lets hope he can play football.

 

[Simkin]

Are you really putting Berry and Barret and Molden in the same line? This fo real?

 

[BradyFTW!]

They have to play football, not compete in drills, right.
I would bet you can find guys who couldn't make a team with better measurables than guys in the HOF.
Not to mention those are a snapshot in time and the difference of a 10th of a second in a 40 yard dash between 2 guys is not something that cant change over time. Not to mention my understanding has always been that people working on clocking a time spend most of their time working on getting out of the blocks. The ability to get out of the blocks quicker on a track doesn't really translate much to playing DB in the NFL.

Exactly. I was looking for the closest comparable I could find in raw measurables. That's obviously only a starting point for what he'll do on the field.

 

[BelichickFan]

Are you really putting Berry and Barret and Molden in the same line? This fo real?

I'm saying they're similar athletes. Anything else you are creating in your own mind because I didn't say it, nor did anyone else.

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly. I was looking for the closest comparable I could find in raw measurables. That's obviously only a starting point for what he'll do on the field.

Pretty much all players at the same position are rough equivalents in measurables. I knew plenty of people who could run faster or were bigger than me, but none of them beat me to the ball. There is an intangible ability of playing football that separates players far more than a few hundreds in a drill.

 

[JackBauer]

For the record, I don't necessarily find this encouraging, since I'm not a Mays fan at all.

Really?! I can't imagine why not...

 

[JackBauer]

Are you really putting Berry and Barret and Molden in the same line? This fo real?

Reading is fundamental.

 

[mgteich]

Let's not underestimate how hard it is to call defensive plays. This ability has kept Sanders on the roster for years.

I think a lot of that stuff is overrated. Dowling has been here 6 weeks or so, and has been in the classroom even if injured.
We do not know how much time he has spent learning S responsibilities but the common discussion is that BB teaches players to know everyones assignment and often has rookies learn a few different spots.
I don't think it takes that much time for a guy who has played the secondary his entire life to understand the few different things a safety is asked to do.
How many different assignments does a safety really have, and how hard is it to learn the play calls in 6 weeks?

 

[Patspsycho]

But safeties have greater run support responsibilities than corners.

The last thing we want is a safety dropping a RB, because that would indicate the RB has broken through the first two levels of the defense. A corner that reads really well can drop a RB for no gain or even a loss, not the high safety.

If we are going to start playing a lot of bump and run then his physical play jamming WRs can help with that, but BB has never been a big bump and run guy.

We've always tried to have a very physical secondary.

Also, if you keep him at corner he isn't playing bump and run from the bench with McCourty and Bodden out there.

From the small sample I've seen this preseason, Bodden has been working the star slot in the nickel with Arrington at corner. Arrington is good, but Dowling has more upside.

Isnt McCourty, Bodden, Chung, Dowling better than
McCourty, Bodden, Chung, Barrett/Brown if in fact we are saying Dowling belongs on the field?

If last year is any indication, we'll be seeing plenty of nickel subs, so I believe we'll see plenty of McCourty, Bodden, Chung, Barrett, and Dowling.

However, I'm aware that all I can do is make an educated guess since I'm no insider, so I could easily be wrong here, and Dowling may in fact be a safety this time next Monday. Who knows?

I want to say I would like to see him at corner because once you've shut down the outside leverage, you can do whatever you want on the inside. Typically in the nickel, we play man-free so it's hard to make a big play down the middle on us, but preventing the big play outside the numbers has been the problem.