Derrick Burgess is a Friggin Stiff

[Deus Irae]

I slo-mo'ed the first few series. Burgess was indeed terrible. He's actually making Warren look bad. For instance, on the 15 yard run to his side he not only didn't set the edge, he obstructed Warren's attempt to play off the tackle, took an upfield angle instead of sliding to make the tackle off of McCourty's force, then got in Mayo's way, too! On passing plays he was slow off the mark; TBC reacts so much faster he looks like an all-pro in contrast. Bad as Burgess is, it mostly looks like he still doesn't know how to play OLB. It was disastrous for him to miss the camp given how unprepared he is for what they're asking of him...

Warren looked bad all by himself. He didn't need Burgess' help. Getting blown 5 yards off the ball time and again, and getting consistently sealed on the back side.... that's all him.

 

[p8ryts]

To my eyes, Ninkovich has been a more disruptive pass rusher than Burgess has. Whether that's because it's only been in spot duty is a fair question but I have more confidence right now that Ninko will get to the quarterback than I do Burgess.

Hooray, I thought I was the only crazy guy. I thought Ninkovich was the best LB for the Pats last night and I think he shows up everytime he plays. Start him and I would be happier than Burgess or TBC. TBC doesn't stand up under the run. I agree, get rid of Burgess and try some new guys. I see this as a spot where we pick up some other teams cuts. I'd even rather have Joey Porter and I don't like him at all.

 

[crowell33]

Hooray, I thought I was the only crazy guy. I thought Ninkovich was the best LB for the Pats last night and I think he shows up everytime he plays. Start him and I would be happier than Burgess or TBC. TBC doesn't stand up under the run. I agree, get rid of Burgess and try some new guys. I see this as a spot where we pick up some other teams cuts. I'd even rather have Joey Porter and I don't like him at all.

Agreed. Nink had 3 tackles for losses, 1 sack, and plays well on all the special teams. He also sets the edge better than Burgess.

 

[lillestroom]

Correction.

Burgess was a friggin stiff.

The day he didnt report to camp was the day his number was up with BB. End of story.

 

[Patspsycho]

Correction.

Burgess was a friggin stiff.

The day he didnt report to camp was the day his number was up with BB. End of story.

I actually think it was end of story for him the past two preseason games when he just regressed.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I would just like to post one more time in this prescient thread. :rocker:

Football is a game for the young.

 

[Kontradiction]

Old Al really porked us in that trade, eh?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Correction.

Burgess was a friggin stiff.

The day he didnt report to camp was the day his number was up with BB. End of story.

You're wrong. It was his lack of production in those preseason games that did him in.

 

[Patjew]

Old Al really porked us in that trade, eh?

Yeah, but what can ya do? Pats needed a guy so they took a shot. It's not like BB can't turn a 2022 6th into a 2011 5th and 3rd.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Old Al really porked us in that trade, eh?

Ya win some (Moss),
Ya lose some (Burgess).

Now Burgess is an unemployed stiff. Good riddance!

 

[Patspsycho]

Old Al really porked us in that trade, eh?

Not even half as much as we porked him with a 4th for Moss. That is going to be very hard to top.

 

[PatsBoy12]

What's the likelihood that anyone picks up Burgess?

 

[lillestroom]

What's the likelihood that anyone picks up Burgess?

Pretty strong I'd say. Wouldnt rule out a Washington, Houston or da Jets having a look by wk.3-

 

[Ring 6]

What's the likelihood that anyone picks up Burgess?

I'd say small. He seems done. Didnt seem to really want to play, then showed up and exhibited further skill erosion.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, but what can ya do? Pats needed a guy so they took a shot. It's not like BB can't turn a 2022 6th into a 2011 5th and 3rd.

I think that the trade was a good one if we got what BB expected Burgess would be. It turns out he was not.
Its hard to judge a trade in retrospect.
I think what we gave up was consistent with, maybe a little more than, his value on the market. All we were trading for was a guy who could effectively rush the passer in nickel and dime, and he was a proven commodity at that. Unfortunately, his skills had eroded, and continued to erode.
I think the trade was a good idea, but the player involved turned out to be the wrong one. If he played at the level of expectation the trade was based on, we would have been happy.

Of course there are 2 ways to judge a trade
1) Based on whether its a good move based on info available at the time
2) Based on whehter it was good fortune telling.

If you use standard 2, almost every trade is a terrible one by one side.

 

[RayClay]

Failure to address the OLB replacement issue resulted in an all or nothing move for AD and what could only be fairly characterized as a late desperation move for Burgess.

Imagine where we would be had San Francisco not handed over a more experienced TBC to us. *shudder*

I like Cunninghmam and hope our current young guys or replacements can step up. However, any way you look at it, last year and this we started addressing the post 2005 need to start replacing OLBs/pass rushers.

 

[Ring 6]

Failure to address the OLB replacement issue resulted in an all or nothing move for AD and what could only be fairly characterized as a late desperation move for Burgess.

Imagine where we would be had San Francisco not handed over a more experienced TBC to us. *shudder*

I like Cunninghmam and hope our current young guys or replacements can step up. However, any way you look at it, last year and this we started addressing the post 2005 need to start replacing OLBs/pass rushers.

I dont think AD was an 'all or nothing move'. I think he was the best player out there to fill the need, and did fine until his skills eroded. Remember when we signed him the biggest worry was if he was too old to survive the contract.
We had Vrabel and Thomas playing well through 2008.
I dont know how the need goes back to 2005??????

I really hate the zeroing in on one position and spewing frustration that it was 'ignored'. Every position is part of the entire team. You will never find a team anywhere in the league that doesnt 'neglect' something, particualrly if you look in retrospect and expect they should have accounted for decline and injuries. Every resource spend on that position is one that couldn't have been spent on another.
Building an NFL is as much about deciding what to ignore as what to address because there is no way you can address everything, especially beforehand./

 

[RayClay]

I dont think AD was an 'all or nothing move'. I think he was the best player out there to fill the need, and did fine until his skills eroded. Remember when we signed him the biggest worry was if he was too old to survive the contract.
We had Vrabel and Thomas playing well through 2008.
I dont know how the need goes back to 2005??????

I really hate the zeroing in on one position and spewing frustration that it was 'ignored'. Every position is part of the entire team. You will never find a team anywhere in the league that doesnt 'neglect' something, particualrly if you look in retrospect and expect they should have accounted for decline and injuries. Every resource spend on that position is one that couldn't have been spent on another.
Building an NFL is as much about deciding what to ignore as what to address because there is no way you can address everything, especially beforehand./

I say all or nothing because they did not address the position otherwise, so they paid up to get a premier player already over thirty to come in and be the star player and leader. as opposed to grooming one or some younger players to develop into leaders.

Given Thomas hadn't seemed a malcontent before, I think installing Mayo and calling him the new leader of the D might have had something to do with Thomas' dissension. There's only one Rodney. Leadership usually grows from within.

I'm not a basher, I don't call busts, but there's nothing wrong citing a position and making valid points.

At a position that used to be a difference maker on our team we once got lucky with Vrabel, paid for the off and on Colvin and had a 4th overall pick, sometimes at the same time.

The fact is, we are starting to rebuild the position only now, with the great good fortune that San Francisco left us a more experienced former player who wants to play. That last is nor design it is luck.

Belichick is the best defensive mind in the game. I have no doubt he might make chicken salad out of TBS plus one draft pick and a bunch of young guys.

I just wonder where we'd be had we devoted a minimal amount of resources to the position outside of AD.

I characterized the Burgess acquisition as desperate at the time and hoped for the best, since I'm an optimist, but it sadly appears I was correct.

 

[Deus Irae]

Even Reiss has uttered a discouraging word on the subject of Mr. Burgess:

And speaking of one-year rentals, now the book can be closed on Derrick Burgess, who represents a rather large personnel misstep by Belichick....

...Belichick doesn't leave himself vulnerable to too much second-guessing, but this is one of the most clear "What was he thinking?" type moves of his 11-year tenure. And that doesn't even consider that Burgess put the team in a tough spot by unexpectedly not reporting to the start of this year's training camp, only to be welcomed back with open arms.

New England Patriots were buyers instead of sellers as they shaped their roster, which could be an ominous sign, writes Mike Reiss - ESPN Boston

 

[Ring 6]

I say all or nothing because they did not address the position otherwise, so they paid up to get a premier player already over thirty to come in and be the star player and leader. as opposed to grooming one or some younger players to develop into leaders.

Given Thomas hadn't seemed a malcontent before, I think installing Mayo and calling him the new leader of the D might have had something to do with Thomas' dissension. There's only one Rodney. Leadership usually grows from within.

I'm not a basher, I don't call busts, but there's nothing wrong citing a position and making valid points.

At a position that used to be a difference maker on our team we once got lucky with Vrabel, paid for the off and on Colvin and had a 4th overall pick, sometimes at the same time.

The fact is, we are starting to rebuild the position only now, with the great good fortune that San Francisco left us a more experienced former player who wants to play. That last is nor design it is luck.

Belichick is the best defensive mind in the game. I have no doubt he might make chicken salad out of TBS plus one draft pick and a bunch of young guys.

I just wonder where we'd be had we devoted a minimal amount of resources to the position outside of AD.

I characterized the Burgess acquisition as desperate at the time and hoped for the best, since I'm an optimist, but it sadly appears I was correct.

I'm just saying it is short sighted to single out one position. It is part of an overall building of a team and there are never enough resources to fill every need, much less the need of who you may need in 3 years when you have 2 probowl caliber or close to it guys at OLB. In fact they did draft Crable in that vein as well.
Overall, the personell moves by this team have been fine, and really excellent if you consider the hole it was in in 2004 in terms of how far over the cap it would have had to go to retain that team or replace those that leave with equal players. I just dont agree with critical singling out of one aspect of a large decisionmaking process without considering all of the others. Never have. I think that you have to judge decision makers by overall results because they are the sum of all of their decisions and many are made as the best of many bad choices.

As far as Burgess and desperation, I guess it depends on how you define desperate.
If desperate is "I'll pay whatever it takes to get that player, because I have to have him" No BB wasn't and never has or will be desperate.
If desperate is "I am weak at that position so I will have to pay more than I would like to" then go ahead and call it desperation. IMO, you connote incompetance in decision making when you use the word desperation, which Im not sure you intended.