PP's DVR player evaluation - Preseason Game 1

[DaBruinz]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

How can Woods be 4th on the ROLB depth chart? Who are the 3 people ahead of him? Guyton took a half dozen reps with the 1st team in the 1st half? And you think that puts him ahead of Woods? Hell, TBC didn't even take a snap at OLB in the 1st half, never mind ROLB. Thomas played LOLB the entire 1st half..

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

DB...the king of the ad-hominem attack.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

DB...the king of the ad-hominem attack.

It would be nice if you knew the meaning of words before you used them. My attacks were directly against your horrible analysis and your lack of football knowledge.

Down and distance? You're using situational strategy to somehow backup PW's performance?

No. I am not using situational strategy. Its called being able to know what play you are referring to more easily. Sorry if actually stating the downs and distance is asking too much of you.

Here's an excuse that I would buy much quicker than any of this self-indulgent vomit you just posted.

Dude, this clearly shows how ignorant you are about football. Everything I posted about the plays was what happened during the game. And it was supported by Box. It wasn't like your post that was full of disingenuous exaggerations. Clearly, you chose to be ignorant and would rather post unsupported garbage. So be it. Just expect people to shoot it down and think of you an idiot.

After years of comfort in the 3-4, Woods is slowly acclimating to his role in the 4-3.

Do I put Mayo under similar scrutiny. You bet your ass. The problem is, a guy like Mayo does so much right...it overshadows his mistakes.

Like hell you do. You've not said ONE THING about Mayo's bad plays. Nor have you commented about others either.

Woods is a 3rd stringer. I said it prior to the Burgess acquisition and there is nothing he did Thursday to change my opinion.

Unfortunately for you, the game doesn't support this. First off, Burgess lined up exclusively at LDE in the 1st half. Woods was lined up at ROLB for all but a few plays. He took one snap at LDE.

Of course there is nothing that would change your opinion. You've shown a total lack of comprehension about the responsibilities of the ROLB in the 4-3 on running plays.

A guy like TBC, who's value I was very critical of, proved me wrong. From the pass rush perspective anyway.

In the first half, TBC was lined up exclusively at RDE on passing plays. The only running play that TBC participated in was the one where Woods lined up at LDE. And TBC was playing RDE. For all the others, it was primarily Seymour.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

It would be nice if you knew the meaning of words before you used them. My attacks were directly against your horrible analysis and your lack of football knowledge.



No. I am not using situational strategy. Its called being able to know what play you are referring to more easily. Sorry if actually stating the downs and distance is asking too much of you.



Dude, this clearly shows how ignorant you are about football. Everything I posted about the plays was what happened during the game. And it was supported by Box. It wasn't like your post that was full of disingenuous exaggerations. Clearly, you chose to be ignorant and would rather post unsupported garbage. So be it. Just expect people to shoot it down and think of you an idiot.



Like hell you do. You've not said ONE THING about Mayo's bad plays. Nor have you commented about others either.



Unfortunately for you, the game doesn't support this. First off, Burgess lined up exclusively at LDE in the 1st half. Woods was lined up at ROLB for all but a few plays. He took one snap at LDE.

Of course there is nothing that would change your opinion. You've shown a total lack of comprehension about the responsibilities of the ROLB in the 4-3 on running plays.



In the first half, TBC was lined up exclusively at RDE on passing plays. The only running play that TBC participated in was the one where Woods lined up at LDE. And TBC was playing RDE. For all the others, it was primarily Seymour.

You're like our own little version of Saul Alinsky on here, following the The Rules for Radical Football Analysis.

Try something. Put away the notebooks, crayons, and copy of The NFL for Idiots.

Turn on the game....focus on Woods...use your eyes only. Evaluate what you see.

If your honest, you'll see an extremely unspectacular player. Period.

Box said it best. We'll see what happens at the end of pre-season.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Push i enjoyed your analysis but you went too far when you bashed Rosie. For a long time Rosie was our best pass rusher. Vrabel excelled when Rosie played because he always applied pressure and forced the qb to step towards Vrabel's side. I can remember countless games when Colvin forced the qb to throw it fast. Watch almost any Colts game and tell me you don't see him making Manning's life hell at some point. Especially in the 2006 championship game. We had an 18 point lead at half time and Manning was being harassed by Colvin. Colvin then left the game with a hamstring injury and Manning picked us apart afterwards. And to this point Colvin applied pressure on a more consistent basis than Adalius Thomas has.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

You're like our own little version of Saul Alinsky on here, following the The Rules for Radical Football Analysis.

Try something. Put away the notebooks, crayons, and copy of The NFL for Idiots.

Turn on the game....focus on Woods...use your eyes only. Evaluate what you see.

If your honest, you'll see an extremely unspectacular player. Period.

Box said it best. We'll see what happens at the end of pre-season.

First of all, if anyone has the NFL for idiots, it would be you. Not myself. I'm not the one who doesn't understand what the OLBs job is in the 4-3 when facing the run.

Also, I've watched the game twice and focused on Woods the 2nd time through. What I saw was a SOLID player who did nothing wrong in his assignments. Just because he was "unspectacular" doesn't make him a BAD player. As I said and you clearly didn't comprehend, I've never claimed Woods to be the next Steve Nelson. However, Woods did his job against the run and, on the 2 pass plays, also did his job.

The difference between YOU and me is that I am a realist. I have realistic expectations for Woods. You? I'm not sure how you can have expectations when you don't understand his responsibilities to begin with.

At the end of pre-season, if Woods continues to play the way he did against the Eagles, then Woods makes this team as one of the two starting OLBs. Particularly, if BB stays with the 4-3 the way he told Cross he would. If they move back to playing more 3-4, then I still believe Woods makes the team, just not as a starter.

 

[shmessy]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

DaBruinz, is there any way you could find it in yourself to just write something like "I disagree with your analysis" and then list the reasons why?

Honestly, starting a personal machopissing contest with an anonymous poster on your computer screen because their opinion about a player's performance does not mirror yours is worthy of pity.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Push i enjoyed your analysis but you went too far when you bashed Rosie. For a long time Rosie was our best pass rusher. Vrabel excelled when Rosie played because he always applied pressure and forced the qb to step towards Vrabel's side. I can remember countless games when Colvin forced the qb to throw it fast. Watch almost any Colts game and tell me you don't see him making Manning's life hell at some point. Especially in the 2006 championship game. We had an 18 point lead at half time and Manning was being harassed by Colvin. Colvin then left the game with a hamstring injury and Manning picked us apart afterwards. And to this point Colvin applied pressure on a more consistent basis than Adalius Thomas has.

Points taken.

Rosie had his moments as has AD, but neither has/had panned out as a consistent force in the pass rush. I'm sure his pelvic injury impacted his play greatly but neither he nor AD has lived up to ....well.....my expectations. Hopefully Burgess and a revamped defensive philosophy will change that.

 

[Peachhead]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Maroney a lack of running space to the left side on two plays in particular. If Light had been a little less lackadaisical LoMo may have done a little more on those plays.

Contrary to popular belief...Lomo did very little UNNECESSARY dancing behind the line. I replayed his run plays a few times each....and Maroney was truly a victim of having no place to run.

It's weird though that he seems the RB most effected by this. For years now. Our other RBs run behind the same guys. Usually with better results.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

It's weird though that he seems the RB most effected by this. For years now. Our other RBs run behind the same guys. Usually with better results.

Those big holes Faulk and Morris saw after Maroney went out? They came against the Nickel package and the #2 defense.

 

[Peachhead]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Those big holes Faulk and Morris saw after Maroney went out? They came against the Nickel package and the #2 defense.

Yeah, but I wasn't just talking about Thursday's game. LM has had the "dancing fool" rep for a few years now. Yet folks like Faulk, Sammy Morris and BJGE often run behind the same guys with better results. I assume you're not trying to tell me that for three+ years every RB except for LM automatically leads a defense to switch to a nickel or radically different personnel packages.

Often the holes (over the last couple years) have been just as big (or small) for LM as for any of the others. But I've seen LM run into his own blocker or dance rather than hitting an unexpected crease more often than some others on the team.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Often the holes (over the last couple years) have been just as big (or small) for LM as for any of the others. But I've seen LM run into his own blocker or dance rather than hitting an unexpected crease more often than some others on the team.

I still love Maroney's upside but he reminds me of Bledsoe with the others being Brady. Meaning what ? In 2000/2001 Bledsoe threw the ball away a lot, unable to find open WR. Brady stepped in and immediately the WR got open more - or, more like, Brady found the open WR quicker. Same with the RB, the other RB just find the holes more consistently than Maroney.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Yeah, but I wasn't just talking about Thursday's game. LM has had the "dancing fool" rep for a few years now. Yet folks like Faulk, Sammy Morris and BJGE often run behind the same guys with better results. I assume you're not trying to tell me that for three+ years every RB except for LM automatically leads a defense to switch to a nickel or radically different personnel packages.

Often the holes (over the last couple years) have been just as big (or small) for LM as for any of the others. But I've seen LM run into his own blocker or dance rather than hitting an unexpected crease more often than some others on the team.

I noted his "dancing" at the start of his rookie season, and in the early games of his sophomore season, in both cases he settled down and played strong. Last season the "made of glass" crowd complained about dancing, but there was little to no justification for it, defenses run blitz and stack the box for Maroney - which I felt was a play calling tendency Josh needed to correct, or was creating in order to sandbag defenses later in the season, whichever it might be was sidetracked by the broken shoulder bone. For this game, anyone who is telling me Maroney was "dancing" indecisively is not objectively looking at the play or the defense, more knowledgable posters than myself have weighed in and expressed the same opinion, so I'm quite confident of my analysis. Maroney is BB's #1 RB, Bill O'Brien started incorporating him into the passing game Thursday using him as a decoy with play action (Moss for 13 yards behind the LBs and in front of the Ss, a shoe string tackle saved a likely TD) and blitz protection, once Tommy starts hitting Maroney on a couple flares and wheel routes defense will have to reconsider stacking the box.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I still love Maroney's upside but he reminds me of Bledsoe with the others being Brady. Meaning what ? In 2000/2001 Bledsoe threw the ball away a lot, unable to find open WR. Brady stepped in and immediately the WR got open more - or, more like, Brady found the open WR quicker. Same with the RB, the other RB just find the holes more consistently than Maroney.

Ahhh.... the great fallacies about Maroney:


Maroney loses yardage much more often.

Maroney can't find the holes.

Yet, somehow, when I went back to the play-by-play for 2007, the breakdown for Maroney went like this:

In 2007, Maroney played in 13 games. I counted the number of runs that went for negative yardage:

Jets - 0
Chargers - 0
Buffalo - 3
Miami - 0
Washington - 0
Indianapolis - 1
Buffalo - 1
Philadelphia - 3
Baltimore - 0
Pittsburgh - 1
Jets - 0
Miami - 2
Giants - 4

That's 15 negative yardage runs in 13 games and 185 carries (7%). In the meantime, for comparison's sake, Morris played in 6 games and had 8 runs for negative yardage in 85 carries (9%).

and both Maroney and Morris averaged 4.5 ypc.


Maybe I Just missed a whole bunch of negative yardage runs by Maroney....:confused2:

 

[maverick4]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Idefenses run blitz and stack the box for Maroney - which I felt was a play calling tendency Josh needed to correct

This could be possible as well, that through tape analysis the opposing team knew that whenever Maroney was in, it was going to be one of a few predictable play calls.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Yeah, but I wasn't just talking about Thursday's game. LM has had the "dancing fool" rep for a few years now. Yet folks like Faulk, Sammy Morris and BJGE often run behind the same guys with better results. I assume you're not trying to tell me that for three+ years every RB except for LM automatically leads a defense to switch to a nickel or radically different personnel packages.

Often the holes (over the last couple years) have been just as big (or small) for LM as for any of the others. But I've seen LM run into his own blocker or dance rather than hitting an unexpected crease more often than some others on the team.

If you get a chance, head over to PatriotsPlanet and take a look at the game breakdowns by a poster there named AllWorldTE. While Maroney does, occasionally dance (ALL RBs do), more often than not, the holes that are supposed to be there for him, aren't.

When Maroney is on the field, almost exclusively on 1st and 2nd down, the defenses read RUN because, that's what the Pats do. 90% of the time its a Maroney run. The other 10% its a play-action pass. When Faulk is on the field, its almost exclusively on 3rd downs, and the defense is playing pass. This allows Faulk to tear them up with the draw play. When Morris is in the game, I've felt its about 70% run and 30% pass. That additional causes enough pause in the defense's reaction to help the offense open the holes.

Also, one of the things that I noticed. Through the middle of last year, the Patriots were Zone Blocking almost exclusively with the RBs, but with only a modicum of success. The Pats seemed to switch to more in-line blocking with Neal's return, and the running game did amazingly better.

I am also of the belief that Maroney had better success with the in-line blocking in front of him than the zone blocking. But that is only an opinion based on a cursory examination..

 

[BradyManny]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I don't find it surprising that you don't see it. You've not shown that you understand what's going happening on the field other than when the teams score..

You claim that Woods couldn't set the edge. Tell me, how many times did the RB bounce to the OUTSIDE for a big gain. And I'm not talking about on a screen pass or a blown play either.

I've been a big Woods backer, but when I watched this game back, PushinPencils was spot on - Woods was physically overmatched. In fact, AllWorldTE on PatriotsPlanet himself said he thought Woods did a poor job setting the edge.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I noted his "dancing" at the start of his rookie season, and in the early games of his sophomore season, in both cases he settled down and played strong. Last season the "made of glass" crowd complained about dancing, but there was little to no justification for it, defenses run blitz and stack the box for Maroney - which I felt was a play calling tendency Josh needed to correct, or was creating in order to sandbag defenses later in the season, whichever it might be was sidetracked by the broken shoulder bone. For this game, anyone who is telling me Maroney was "dancing" indecisively is not objectively looking at the play or the defense, more knowledgable posters than myself have weighed in and expressed the same opinion, so I'm quite confident of my analysis. Maroney is BB's #1 RB, Bill O'Brien started incorporating him into the passing game Thursday using him as a decoy with play action (Moss for 13 yards behind the LBs and in front of the Ss, a shoe string tackle saved a likely TD) and blitz protection, once Tommy starts hitting Maroney on a couple flares and wheel routes defense will have to reconsider stacking the box.

Question Box do you think that Maroney is some how subtly tipping the defense off to where hes going?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I've been a big Woods backer, but when I watched this game back, PushinPencils was spot on - Woods was physically overmatched. In fact, AllWorldTE on PatriotsPlanet himself said he thought Woods did a poor job setting the edge.

That was his initial assessment , he rewatched it and reconsidered.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Question Box do you think that Maroney is some how subtly tipping the defense off to where hes going?

Yep, he's wearing #39, it's a dead giveaway that a "tight" player is in the backfield and will be lugging the rock shortly - for whatever reason, last season, the play calling rarely involved Maroney in the passing game. This game was similar, when LoMo is in the game the defense keys on the run and aggressive defenses like Philly start run blitzing. I've speculated that it may be a long term playcalling strategy to set defenses up for the run then start hitting Maroney out of the backfield in the passing game, either that or Josh was collaberating with maverick4 to be no smarter than, well, a box of rocks. It's not Maroney that I can see, it's higher up the food chain. If you watched how many times Morris got stuffed in the backfield out of running formations vs. the big holes he got out of passing formations... :confused2: