Pierre Woods as our starting OLB?

[patman52]

Woods will be fine as the olb in running situations. i dont expect to see him on the field for 60 snaps.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

With both AD and Woods healthy we're in good shape. The run defense is much better (100.5 YPG vs 123 YPG) and the team averaged slightly more sacks per game. Look at the second Miami game. AD was out and Woods contributed to hold them to 66 yards. Woods smashed his face the following week versus Pitt. With Rosie Colvin in instead the run D sucked.

Looking at last season's run D makes it clear. One legit bad game (Wildcat), one without Ty Warren(Jets #2), and the last four and a half weeks without AD and Woods.

Edit: I looked at a few things. Ty Warren missed the Jets game, played against Miami and missed the Steelers game. Ty is the run D difference maker.

 

[patriot lifer]

i can't imagine the combo of AD and Woods being that much of a dropoff from the good 'ole Vrabel+Colvin days. Colvin was okay (he had his moments) but he was far from special. How much of a difference is there between Woods and Colvin? Are their abilities so alarmingly different? And don't bring up stats with Colvin, let's go by our eyes on this one.

 

[BTTA]

Agree. Colvin had a problem setting the edge against the run, which is Woods' strength. Having a pass rush won't matter much if the opposing offense is consistently in a 2nd and 4 or 3rd and 1.

If Woods doesn't develop his pass rush, he won't be in the game on 2nd or 3rd and long, so it won't matter much.

Some posters here have suggested that opposing offenses will pass on first down more often because of Wood's presence. If the simple presence of the Pats' "weakest defensive player" is causing other teams to change their play calling, away from what they would naturally do, then that's one heck of a defense.

i can't imagine the combo of AD and Woods being that much of a dropoff from the good 'ole Vrabel+Colvin days. Colvin was okay (he had his moments) but he was far from special. How much of a difference is there between Woods and Colvin? Are their abilities so alarmingly different? And don't bring up stats with Colvin, let's go by our eyes on this one.

 

[Frezo]

One thing Colvin had over Woods is experience. Colvin's moves and countermoves were polished. He had a good pass rush and defended the pass well. IMO this compliments the Pat's offense that frequently had early leads forcing the opposing offense to pass more. I'd take Colvin in his Pats prime over the current Woods.

 

[patriot lifer]

One thing Colvin had over Woods is experience. Colvin's moves and countermoves were polished. He had a good pass rush and defended the pass well. IMO this compliments the Pat's offense that frequently had early leads forcing the opposing offense to pass more. I'd take Colvin in his Pats prime over the current Woods.

completely agree. i'd rather have colvin (in his prime) than woods. although, woods is probably a much better value

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

The title has a question mark when it should have a period. Pierre Woods is the second best OLB on this team. He does not suck. At this point he is better than both Rosie and Willie.

If another player is added it will only be a situational guy like Banta-Cain. I doubt Burgess could come in here and play every down. Something Woods has proven he can do in this system. Against Miami, the second time, Woods played every snap. Sure AD was out but Woods was trusted. Sixty six yards rushing allowed and three sacks by the defense. Pass rush: check. Run D: check. Still gave up 28 points.

The front seven isn't the problem as of now. I want to see fewer aerial touchdowns, personally.

 

[BTTA]

One thing Colvin had over Woods is experience. Colvin's moves and countermoves were polished. He had a good pass rush and defended the pass well. IMO this compliments the Pat's offense that frequently had early leads forcing the opposing offense to pass more. I'd take Colvin in his Pats prime over the current Woods.

I'd probably agree with you at first blush, but with some hesitation because the stuff that Covin was good at has a much higher visibility than the stuff that Woods is good at. Without a lot of film study, it is impossible to get an accurate comparison. And I'm certainly not up to doing that.

 

[State]

The title has a question mark when it should have a period. Pierre Woods is the second best OLB on this team. He does not suck. At this point he is better than both Rosie and Willie.

If another player is added it will only be a situational guy like Banta-Cain. I doubt Burgess could come in here and play every down. Something Woods has proven he can do in this system. Against Miami, the second time, Woods played every snap. Sure AD was out but Woods was trusted. Sixty six yards rushing allowed and three sacks by the defense. Pass rush: check. Run D: check. Still gave up 28 points.

The front seven isn't the problem as of now. I want to see fewer aerial touchdowns, personally.

Our defense's weakness is defending the pass, esp. in not being able to stifle drives. Woods comes out for plays like that, when it's third and long. Tully Banta-Cain or, preferably, Shawn Crable come in to rush the passer.

But you guys really don't know what you're talking about. Three games? Three? That's how many games you arm-chairers are going by. Pitiful.

Woods has a lot of work ahead of him. His tenacity has been called into question by me. I hope I'm proved wrong, but I don't think Belichick is going to sit on his laurels with the OLBers we have now.

We need a pass rush off the edge. Anybody with an analytical eye can see that.

AD has been a bit of a disappointment. Bruschi is slower than Heinz 57. Our LBers need an upgrade. Without Mayo we don't even win the Eastern Division.

 

[farn]

Without Mayo we don't even win the Eastern Division.

Is this guy serious ? Wow. Here's a secet : we could lose all 4 (AD, Mayo, Bruschi AND Woods) and I'd still like our chances if Brady stays well. We can go with Alexander & Guyton inside and TBC and Crable outside... and still be ahead of those other 3 teams.

Edit : This dude's 3rd string and I'm practice squad ? Something not right with these rankings... how do they work anyways ?

 

[Frezo]

completely agree. i'd rather have colvin (in his prime) than woods. although, woods is probably a much better value

I didn't answer your question about about the combo of Colvin/Vrabel vs Thomas/Woods though. While the conclusion might need more thought, I still like C & V. At that time Vrabel was terrific. Your point about the value of Woods could well pan out.

 

[Frezo]

I'd probably agree with you at first blush, but with some hesitation because the stuff that Covin was good at has a much higher visibility than the stuff that Woods is good at. Without a lot of film study, it is impossible to get an accurate comparison. And I'm certainly not up to doing that.

There also isn't a lot of film on Woods. What there is shows him as promising so he's got my support. A team can't have a high paid star at every position.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Is this guy serious ? Wow. Here's a secet : we could lose all 4 (AD, Mayo, Bruschi AND Woods) and I'd still like our chances if Brady stays well. We can go with Alexander & Guyton inside and TBC and Crable outside... and still be ahead of those other 3 teams.

Edit : This dude's 3rd string and I'm practice squad ? Something not right with these rankings... how do they work anyways ?

It's all post count, hahaha.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Our defense's weakness is defending the pass, esp. in not being able to stifle drives. Woods comes out for plays like that, when it's third and long. Tully Banta-Cain or, preferably, Shawn Crable come in to rush the passer.

Woods was injured defending the pass. It didn't happen on the sideline.

But you guys really don't know what you're talking about. Three games? Three? That's how many games you arm-chairers are going by. Pitiful.

Who else is there? More games than Crable. He does more things well than Banta-Cain. He is the all-world athlete you covet.

His tenacity has been called into question by me.

You? Who the hell are you?

We need a pass rush off the edge. Anybody with an analytical eye can see that.

31 sacks. Better than average with injuries across the board on defense. The 1996 SB team only had 33 sacks. 2001 SB championship team had 39 sacks. A healthy team puts the total over 40, easily.

AD has been a bit of a disappointment. Bruschi is slower than Heinz 57. Our LBers need an upgrade. Without Mayo we don't even win the Eastern Division.

AD has been good. Guyton is faster than Tobasco. What LBers are available? Without Mayo I could not make a sandwich. Oh nohs!

 

[BradyFTW!]

Our defense's weakness is defending the pass, esp. in not being able to stifle drives. Woods comes out for plays like that, when it's third and long. Tully Banta-Cain or, preferably, Shawn Crable come in to rush the passer.

But you guys really don't know what you're talking about. Three games? Three? That's how many games you arm-chairers are going by. Pitiful.

In one sentence, you're saying that 3 games isn't enough to feel like a guy's competent, yet in the previous sentence you were pumping up Shawn Crable, whose next NFL snap will be his first. Not that I'd actually expect you to put any thought into your posts or make any sense whatsoever, but that's pretty stupid even by the remarkably low standard that you've set for yourself.

We need a pass rush off the edge. Anybody with an analytical eye can see that.

Woods is our SOLB. Starting SOLB sack totals in the SB years:

2001 (Vrabel): 3
2003 (Vrabel): 9.5
2004 (Vrabel): 5.5

the SOLB's primary responsibilities are to set the edge and stick with TEs. The ability to get sacks from time to time is a nice benefit, but 2007 is the only year that we've had a double-digit sacker from the strong side. Of course, with your incredibly analytical talent, I'm sure you already knew that.

For comparison to the Steelers, check out Clark Haggans' sack totals by year:

2002: 6.5
2003: 1
2004: 6
2005: 9
2006: 6
2007: 4

It's not a scheme thing, it's just a reality. SOLBs don't get a ton of sacks. The tight end lines up there, and they're not going after most QBs' blind side. SOLBs need to be able to blitz to the extent that it keeps the offense somewhat honest, but the right is the natural strong side of an offense. If you have a Ware/Fujita-type combo, then sometimes offenses will basically switch their strong side to the left to try to neutralize the guy, but that makes life a lot harder on the offense as a whole, and the QB (who has to turn to see his left) in particular. Because of that, the right is usually the strong side by default, so as long as your SOLB can get a sack now and then to keep things mixed up (which Woods has demonstrated the ability to do) you're fine.

Say what you want about Jason Taylor and Burgess, but they're standard WOLBs. Taylor had to play SOLB in Washington, and look what happened to him. Neither of those guys was going to be competing for Woods' spot, so the attempts to sign him say little, if anything, about Woods' progress and ability. If anything, we *might* have moved Adalius to SOLB, but that would be the third position he'd played for us in 3 years.

Really, though, you don't even know the difference between a SOLB and a WOLB, and you expect people to take your uninformed opinion seriously?

The rest of your post isn't even worth addressing.

 

[farn]

It's all post count, hahaha.

Alrighty then. "S" says Pats don't win AFCE without Mayo, due to the weakness of LB crew. Tell me I'm not the only one who thinks he's way off on this one.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Alrighty then. "S" says Pats don't win AFCE without Mayo, due to the weakness of LB crew. Tell me I'm not the only one who thinks he's way off on this one.

If State disagrees with you, then that basically means that you're right.

 

[State]

Really, though, you don't even know the difference between a SOLB and a WOLB, and you expect people to take your uninformed opinion seriously

You assert a fact in the absence of evidence.

Tell me again I don't know the difference between where the TE lines up or not? Where did I indicate to you I didn't? Other than in your imagination.

Woods has been a player I watched for three years in college. You have watched him for three games in the pros. After a break out sophomore season--I gave you the numbers--he receded into relative obscurity, becoming a disappointment in his senior season.

Notwithstanding the excellent physical size and speed and quickness, he wasn't drafted. The Patriots have taken a chance on him as a free agent acquisition, like they have this year with QB Brian Hoyer, and so far he hasn't done much to indicate much one way or the other how he will succeed.

He has had a mixed record. Three games in which he played decently. One miserable play in the SB where he couldn't hold onto the ball against a much smaller opponent. Why was that? He lacks toughness and tenacity.

Just like he did in college. Matt Patricia has his work cut out for him.

If he regressed in college, he will succeed in the pros? Oh, yes. There's always the LSU product who was a nickle in college and started at CB in the pros. But you're so ignorant of the college game you can't even name him.

(Giving you a taste of your own fallacious reasoning.)

 

[patriot lifer]

Notwithstanding the excellent physical size and speed and quickness, he wasn't drafted. The Patriots have taken a chance on him as a free agent acquisition, like they have this year with QB Brian Hoyer, and so far he hasn't done much to indicate much one way or the other how he will succeed.

i hardly call that taking a chance. it's the lowest level of commitment possible. undrafted and with hardly any money thrown his way. if he doesn't pan out, then someone else will assume his place at no cost to the team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You assert a fact in the absence of evidence.

Tell me again I don't know the difference between where the TE lines up or not? Where did I indicate to you I didn't? Other than in your imagination.

Woods has been a player I watched for three years in college. You have watched him for three games in the pros. After a break out sophomore season--I gave you the numbers--he receded into relative obscurity, becoming a disappointment in his senior season.

Notwithstanding the excellent physical size and speed and quickness, he wasn't drafted. The Patriots have taken a chance on him as a free agent acquisition, like they have this year with QB Brian Hoyer, and so far he hasn't done much to indicate much one way or the other how he will succeed.

He has had a mixed record. Three games in which he played decently. One miserable play in the SB where he couldn't hold onto the ball against a much smaller opponent. Why was that? He lacks toughness and tenacity.

Just like he did in college. Matt Patricia has his work cut out for him.

If he regressed in college, he will succeed in the pros? Oh, yes. There's always the LSU product who was a nickle in college and started at CB in the pros. But you're so ignorant of the college game you can't even name him.

(Giving you a taste of your own fallacious reasoning.)

Given your demonstrated inability to evaluate players with anything resembling objectivity (deriding Woods' entire career for one play and 'not having the eye of the tiger), I have trouble putting any stock in your assessment. And given your statement that the thing that we most need from our SOLB position is greater pressure off the edge, it's clear that you don't even understand what the SOLB's responsibilities are.

Yes, Woods did have a strange college career. Belichick has gone on the record before with his insight into the matter, and from where I'm standing Belichick is an awfully good evaluator of football talent. At this point, the undrafted point is largely irrelevant; Woods has stuck around for a few years, and Belichick trusts him to be the starter, and he's shown that he's capable when given the chance. All that's really missing is the eye of the tiger, of course.