Asante...

[fumbrunner]

Is there anyone here that could say that Asante is not a top 5 corner in this league? Sure, maybe not in terms of being a shutdown corner (there is only one true shutdown corner in the league right now), but in terms of his ball hawking capabilities and his ability to change a game by virtue of his Ints?

The only valid arguement is whether he is worth what he is paid. Every team values positions differently. The pats are one team that does not think the CB position is worth the money being paid to top corners. If we had a decent pass rush, I would tend to agree. Given where the team is in that particular area, I wish more was invested in the position rather than relying on rookies and the Delpha Oneils of the world.

 

[aluminum seats]

Could you show us the evidence that proves the Patriots did not try to be "more proactive"?

The bottom line, for one--they didn't keep him. Beyond that, football writers who I respect have asserted that they feel the Pats could have done more, but didn't.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Like I said on another thread-Plaxico Burress is SORELY missed-like Randy Moss, he's a tall receiver who's a game-breaker. The Giants "We win as a team" arrogance costed them dearly.

BTW-just wait until the Eagles face Fitz/Boldin next week. Plus the Cards are running the ball alot better too.

 

[dhamz]

You're missing the point. If the Pats had been more proactive with Samuel, they would likely have been able to lock him up to a deal before the huge numbers of free agency kicked in.

That's become a popular form of revisionist history.

When was this supposed to have been done? Not after his rookie year when he showed promise or after his second year he played pretty well. The team can't set the precedent. He blew up in his 4th year which is when his contract expires so that isn't it either.

That leaves 2005 - when he struggled along with the rest of the defense. He did not play well that year. No one was talking about locking him up long term and no one was anticipating him becoming the playmaker he has become.

Asante is a terrific cornerback. He's not a "shutdown corner" which is a term that doesn't really apply to anyone in the NFL since it was Polianized a few years back. The only corner in the NFL who doesn't get thrown at plays on a HS team that can't stop anyone. They don't throw at him because he is the only guy who can make a play.

What Asante is, is a big time playmaker at corner. That is not something that should be easily dismissed and it is not easy to replace. In the modern NFL good players are going to leave and perform well elsewhere. The team needs to replace them when they go and that is where the Pats fell down in 2008.

 

[Deus Irae]

The key word in your post is "former." The conversation is no longer about a Patriot player, but a former player and whether the organization did all it could to keep him. That's when the homer kicks in.

Why would I care about the word "former" when I'm evaluating a player? Try to get this through your head:

1.) I think Asante is a good corner, but not a top 5 corner, which is the kind of money he's getting. AmIAnnoying.com - USA Today's 20 Highest Paid NFL Players [November 6, 2008]

2.) I thought the same thing when he was on the Patriots.

3.) I think that pointing to interceptions as proof of his talent, when the interceptions in question could have been made by any NFL quality cornerback is idiotic.

 

[Deus Irae]

The bottom line, for one--they didn't keep him. Beyond that, football writers who I respect have asserted that they feel the Pats could have done more, but didn't.

In other words, you're just pulling your argument out of your ass.

 

[aluminum seats]

Why would I care about the word "former" when I'm evaluating a player? Try to get this through your head:

1.) I think Asante is a good corner, but not a top 5 corner, which is the kind of money he's getting. AmIAnnoying.com - USA Today's 20 Highest Paid NFL Players [November 6, 2008]

2.) I thought the same thing when he was on the Patriots.

3.) I think that pointing to interceptions as proof of his talent, when the interceptions in question could have been made by any NFL quality cornerback is idiotic.

You would care about the word "former" because you're a homer, and when a player is a "former" Patriot you react to him differently.

On your third "point," any given interception is not proof of his talent--his talent is illustrated by the fact that he consistently makes plays.

 

[aluminum seats]

In other words, you're just pulling your argument out of your ass.

No, in other words I value Mike Reiss' opinion a lot more than yours:

"My feeling is that the Patriots' primary error was not identifying Samuel as an ascending player and locking him up in 2006 or early 2007 before his price rose to astronomical levels on the open market. That's a big part of the personnel game - knowing when to be proactive and reactive - and what makes that aspect of building a football team challenging. It's hard to know when to pull the trigger, and when to hold off. No one across the NFL bats 1,000 in those situations, and the Patriots still are better than most in my opinion, but I thought they missed it with Samuel."

 

[Deus Irae]

No, in other words I value Mike Reiss' opinion a lot more than yours:

"My feeling is that the Patriots' primary error was not identifying Samuel as an ascending player and locking him up in 2006 or early 2007 before his price rose to astronomical levels on the open market. That's a big part of the personnel game - knowing when to be proactive and reactive - and what makes that aspect of building a football team challenging. It's hard to know when to pull the trigger, and when to hold off. No one across the NFL bats 1,000 in those situations, and the Patriots still are better than most in my opinion, but I thought they missed it with Samuel."

Ummm.... you're trying to assert Reiss' feeling as evidence?

You're making Jets fans look good by comparison to yourself.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

What is it with all these knee-jerk threads? Wanna know why the Eagles are in this position?

1) The Bucs choked against the RAIDERS at HOME.

2) The Bears choked against HOUSTON.

3) The Cowboys choked YET AGAIN in DECEMBER.

Don't be surprised if they layed an egg in Zona next week.

 

[aluminum seats]

Ummm.... you're trying to assert Reiss' feeling as evidence?

You're making Jets fans look good by comparison to yourself.

OK, try and follow along. The point is, a smart beat writer like Reiss has a more valuable opinion than someone like yourself who never indicates even a glimmer of intelligence.

 

[Deus Irae]

You would care about the word "former" because you're a homer, and when a player is a "former" Patriot you react to him differently.

On your third "point," any given interception is not proof of his talent--his talent is illustrated by the fact that he consistently makes plays.

What part of "I thought the same thing when he was on the Patriots." is so difficult for you to grasp? Are you genetically incapable of comprehending the English language?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/53749-adam-schefter-weei-page2.html#post394767

So much for the "homer" theory....

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, try and follow along. The point is, a smart beat writer like Reiss has a more valuable opinion than someone like yourself who never indicates even a glimmer of intelligence.

No, I asked you for evidence and you provided the feelings of a beat reporter who offered nothing factual. The point is that you don't know what the Patriots did, or did not, try to do to keep Samuel in the fold during the time you assert they should have "been more proactive".

 

[wiggins!]

k....to break away from the contract /should have re-signed/should have extended assante talk.....I was listening to the game on westwood one on my way home. When they game ended, john dockery interviewed assante and duiring the interview, he said this eagles defense was the best he's ever played on?



Earth to assante, you were on the 03 and 04 patriots! And in fact, you were actually a big part of the 04 pats!

quick stat check:

2008 PHI defense
18.1 ppg allowed
274 ypg
92 rpg
182 ppg
+3 TO dif
29 takeaways
15 int
14 fum


2004 NE defense
16.3 ppg
310 ypg
98 rpg
212 ppg
+9 TO dif
36 takeaways!!!!!
20 int
16 fum


2003 NE defense
14.9 PPG........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
292 ypg allowed
89 rpg
202 ppg
+17 TO dif
41 takeaways
29 int
12 fum

Just don't forget where you came from homeboy!

 

[Rob0729]

Asante made a nice read and broke off his man to make that play. You guys still make it sound like Asante is the luckiest DB out there. LOL. Yeah, QBs just love throwing him the ball

Asante did what any other CB would have done. There was nothing magic or special about that particular play and, in fact, Manning threw another INT just like it to another defender. Manning's throws were off all game. Samuel was lucky to be in the right place at the right time in THAT PARTICULAR PLAY. Doesn't mean he hasn't made great plays on his own. Just not that one. The run back was all him.

 

[ausbacker]

Asante did what any other CB would have done. There was nothing magic or special about that particular play and, in fact, Manning threw another INT just like it to another defender. Manning's throws were off all game. Samuel was lucky to be in the right place at the right time in THAT PARTICULAR PLAY. Doesn't mean he hasn't made great plays on his own. Just not that one. The run back was all him.

Rob, certain posters on this board (who shall remain nameless, P.S there are 2) seem to have a certain affinity with one particular ex Patriots player and are not willing to entertain the opinions of others or are eqully dismissive of logical and progressive argument.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Actually, we feel that it's ridiculous to make threads about wishing Samuel were still in New England based upon interceptions that any NFL caliber cornerback could come up with.

Sorry to bother you.

 

[aluminum seats]

What part of "I thought the same thing when he was on the Patriots." is so difficult for you to grasp? Are you genetically incapable of comprehending the English language?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/53749-adam-schefter-weei-page2.html#post394767

So much for the "homer" theory....

Needless to say I'm not going to comb through your 300,000 posts on this board, but the fact you're a homer is self-evident. You should really just embrace your homerism.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, certain posters on this board (who shall remain nameless, P.S there are 2) seem to have a certain affinity with one particular ex Patriots player and are not willing to entertain the opinions of others or are eqully dismissive of logical and progressive argument.

Unfortunately, there are people on this board who love or hate current players or coaches too and do the same thing. I guess it is the way of the message board environment.

 

[aluminum seats]

No, I asked you for evidence and you provided the feelings of a beat reporter who offered nothing factual. The point is that you don't know what the Patriots did, or did not, try to do to keep Samuel in the fold during the time you assert they should have "been more proactive".

The ins and outs of contract negotiation are always filled with sketchy information, it's the nature of the beast. Reiss is as perceptive as they come, and again, his opinion is worth a million times yours.