My $0.02 on the crowd

[JoeSixPat]

Not trying to get in the middle of this nice convo but I found the info below interesting. I cant see the video right now so if someone could check this out it would be interesting:

Big Ben said the hometown boos incited his halftime tirade, which sparked the offense to play better.

Thanks - but don't expect a statement like this to change the opinion of Tunescribe, AJ or Pats726 - they painted themselves in a corner that booing can NEVER spark a team to play better.

Thus they will go to great lengths to illustrate why Big Ben didn't really mean that the team used the boos to prompt them to play harder or better.

Tunescribe et al - feel free to offer your own explanation as to why Rothlesberger didn't really say what he did - I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

 

[JMarr]

Thanks - but don't expect a statement like this to change the opinion of Tunescribe, AJ or Pats726 - they painted themselves in a corner that booing can NEVER spark a team to play better.

Thus they will go to great lengths to illustrate why Big Ben didn't really mean that the team used the boos to prompt them to play harder or better.

Tunescribe et al - feel free to offer your own explanation as to why Rothlesberger didn't really say what he did - I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

So that makes Tom Brady, Vrabel, and Big Ben on record as saying basically the same thing. What a classless group that is.

 

[Tunescribe]

Thanks - but don't expect a statement like this to change the opinion of Tunescribe, AJ or Pats726 - they painted themselves in a corner that booing can NEVER spark a team to play better.

Thus they will go to great lengths to illustrate why Big Ben didn't really mean that the team used the boos to prompt them to play harder or better.

Tunescribe et al - feel free to offer your own explanation as to why Rothlesberger didn't really say what he did - I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

Roethlisberger said what he said, and I have no doubt he meant it. All I've told you is that the dozen or so NFL players I've spoken with on this subject told me that booing is a reflection of fan ignorance and that it doesn't motivate them one way or the other. I believe most players feel that way and I agree with them. Call them liars if you wish. You can continue believing that booing the home team helps win ball games if you want. But if it was Baltimore that kicked that winning field goal in OT, you can bet Ben wouldn't have said anything.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Roethlisberger said what he said, and I have no doubt he meant it. All I've told you is that the dozen or so NFL players I've spoken with on this subject told me that booing is a reflection of fan ignorance and that it doesn't motivate them one way or the other. I believe most players feel that way and I agree with them. Call them liars if you wish. You can continue believing that booing the home team helps win ball games if you want. But if it was Baltimore that kicked that winning field goal in OT, you can bet Ben wouldn't have said anything.

No - you've been quite clear that ALL players feel the way you say they do and that there could never be a positive outcome to booing.

That's been the issue since day 1 of this thread, where you rule out any chance that booing could ever serve as a motivation for players to play better.

Now, faced with all this evidence to the contrary, you really should just come out and admit that some players DO use fan dissatisfaction as inspiration to play better.

I can certainly sympathize with players who don't like booing. I'd tell them what I'd tell those fans who didn't like the Patriots running up the score. If you don't like it, play better.

 

[Garbanza]

Roethlisberger said what he said, and I have no doubt he meant it. All I've told you is that the dozen or so NFL players I've spoken with on this subject told me that booing is a reflection of fan ignorance and that it doesn't motivate them one way or the other. I believe most players feel that way and I agree with them. Call them liars if you wish. You can continue believing that booing the home team helps win ball games if you want. But if it was Baltimore that kicked that winning field goal in OT, you can bet Ben wouldn't have said anything.

so, let me get this straight. A player says that booing shows fan ignorance and this is taken as truth. Yet a person that is a fan, may have a different opinion, and his/her thoughts, opinion and view, is dismissed. I get it now. You're a jock sniffer.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Booing does not motivate players or make them try harder/perform better/man-up/reach down deeper. I know this for a fact, as noted before in this and other threads on the subject. It's just nonsense to believe that booing "sends a message" that is heeded in any way, shape or form by anyone in a professional sports organization. All booing does, plain and simple, is give voice to one's own petulant frustrations.

I think Big Ben disagrees with what you know as a "fact".

If you also want to live in Fantasyland where folks believe that booing helps a team win, JoeSixPats is selling memberships.

So Rothelsberger is living in Fantasy Land too? He seems to think booing served as a motivation.

I never claimed that negative feedback from a coach wouldn't motivate a player to perform better under the right circumstances. Booing simply doesn't.

In light of Rothlesberger's comments disputing your "facts", would you care to apologize to the Patriots fans you insulted yet? AndyJohnson and Pats726 might want to join with you in doing so.

 

[Pats726]

In light of Rothlesberger's comments disputing your "facts", would you care to apologize to the Patriots fans you insulted yet? AndyJohnson and Pats726 might want to join with you in doing so.

I think some MIGHT apologize the day that the classeless fans of ten days ago apologized for their totally embarrasing behavior. How is that?? BTW the fact that Big Ben said HE USED the booing...does not mean that he welcomed that. In that case the extended thought would be that the REAL fans shoudl always boo the home team..for motivation...you agree??

 

[Tunescribe]

I think some MIGHT apologize the day that the classeless fans of ten days ago apologized for their totally embarrasing behavior. How is that?? BTW the fact that Big Ben said HE USED the booing...does not mean that he welcomed that. In that case the extended thought would be that the REAL fans shoudl always boo the home team..for motivation...you agree??

You point out an essential difference here, and a gaping hole in JoeSixPat's argument that players are inspired by booing. If his concept of "booing a team to victory" had any veracity, clubs like Cincinnati and Detroit would be at least .500 and the Patriots would have come back to beat Miami. But by now it should be clear that Joe and his ilk never will admit that coaches and players have an infinitely greater stake in succeeding on the field than fans do in seeing them succeed. It makes Joe and his pals feel "important" and "empowered" to believe they can make a key difference via negative reinforcement.

I wonder, JoeSixPat: Are you capable of issuing an apology to BB and his players for insulting them with your ignorant behavior?

“Booing speaks of nothing more than fickle and ignorant fans. As a supporter you stand by your team, whether they win or lose. You have an opinion and tell your mate they sucked, but you show your disapproval by either not [attending] the next game or by silence. To boo is crass … “

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=2200&art_id=vn20080827115302781C218082

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think some MIGHT apologize the day that the classeless fans of ten days ago apologized for their totally embarrasing behavior. How is that?? BTW the fact that Big Ben said HE USED the booing...does not mean that he welcomed that. In that case the extended thought would be that the REAL fans shoudl always boo the home team..for motivation...you agree??

Sorry guys - you can't go back and change what you said now.

You all said that booing can NEVER have a positive consequence.

I posted all your insulting and incorrect quotes last night but it looks like a moderator deleted them. (Maybe AndyJohnson didn't like seeing a reminder of all the insulting names he called the members?)

You've said that ALL players feel the same way about booing.

You've said that all fans who boo, hate the team - actually saying that booing Patriots fans are no different from booing Jets fans.

You did your best to ignore or spin Herm Edwards admission of using the disrespect card to motivate his players. Now that Rothlisberger coming right out and saying that he used the boos to rally his team, you're in full scramble mode to find SOME way to back off your statements that negative feedback can NEVER result in a positive outcome.

You're all really looking silly and are only insulting yourself when you make bizarre assertions that fans should boo the team at all times.

I don't think you're that stupid. You know what everyone's talking about. You just want to play dumb on this issue now to save face.

The fact is that fans booed the Patriots for letting the worst team in football make the Patriots look like the worst team in football. You can contend that the Patriots all time worst loss in the history of Gillette Stadium was the result of 100% effort, but the fans at the game, and those that watched on TV know what they saw.

You point out an essential difference here, and a gaping hole in JoeSixPat's argument that players are inspired by booing. If his concept of "booing a team to victory" had any veracity, clubs like Cincinnati and Detroit would be at least .500 and the Patriots would have come back to beat Miami. But by now it should be clear that Joe and his ilk never will admit that coaches and players have an infinitely greater stake in succeeding on the field than fans do in seeing them succeed. It makes Joe and his pals feel "important" and "empowered" to believe they can make a key difference via negative reinforcement.

I wonder, JoeSixPat: Are you capable of issuing an apology to BB and his players for insulting them with your ignorant behavior?

Again, you only insult yourself by attempting this type of spin.

Aside from that, what exactly do I need to apologize to the team for? I didn't boo.

I merely wanted to point out that your insulting and righteous comments to other fans were inappropriate - especially inappropriate for a moderator like AndyJohnson to resort to the language he did...

Additionally I wanted to address your ignorance of the fact that some players DO use the expressed dissatisfaction of fans as a wake up call and inspiration to play better, just as Herm Edwards did for his and as Ben Rothlisberger did for the Steelers.

Given how far you stuck your neck out on that theory, I know it must have hurt to read their comments, but their comments cannot be denied.

In the future, try to keep in mind that there's no "right and wrong", "classless or not-classless" when it comes to fans booing what was the worst performance of their team in an entire decade, against a 1-17 team.

The only thing that's "wrong" is when Patsfans members and moderators assert that they, and only they know right from wrong, and assert that their "opinions" are actually "facts" - and go on to hurl insults at anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

I'll not apologize for calling anyone to task for that - and I'll do it again.

Bottom line - you all said that ALL fans who booed are classless and/or are just like booing Jetsfans. You're wrong and should apologize.

You also said that booing NEVER results in a wake up call for players to play better. You're wrong and should apologize.

You also insulted a great many fans - if I need to I'll go back and post exactly what you said, in your own words. You owe them an apology as well.

Don't worry - we won't hold our breath waiting for you. Of course, the fact that you've been proven wrong on all the above counts and still won't apologize, is the only classless thing I've seen in recent days.

 

[Tunescribe]

You're right Joe, I should apologize. I apologize to all level-headed readers of Patsfans.com for my part in perpetuating this silly thread in the vain hope that you and other like-minded numbskulls might finally understand that booing the home team under any circumstances is a selfishly ignorant, fickle act of futility. Your oddly contrived, self-serving spins on Herm Edwards and Ben Roethlisberger show that you will go to absurd lengths to righteously defend your ignorance. This is like arguing religion with a born-again. You hereby have my blessings to boo the Patriots to victory. :bricks::woohoo:igsfly:



“Booing speaks of nothing more than fickle and ignorant fans. As a supporter you stand by your team, whether they win or lose. You have an opinion and tell your mate they sucked, but you show your disapproval by either not [attending] the next game or by silence. To boo is crass … “ -- Mark Keohane, Aug. 27 2008

"Booing? I don't hear it. I'm too busy playing quarterback." -- John Brodie, 1967

“Does it hurt? It doesn’t hurt … [but] it amazes me how people react. You would think this organization hasn’t won as much as they have, and been as successful in the years that they have. It’s a testament to how spoiled they are ... " -- Ellis Hobbs, Sept. 21, 2008

 

[Don_the_patfan]

In light of Rothlesberger's comments disputing your "facts", would you care to apologize to the Patriots fans you insulted yet? AndyJohnson and Pats726 might want to join with you in doing so.

Dont count on it.. Lets not get facts get in the way and if they do try to spin it. Their thinking is too evolved to be dealing with pesty little creatures that present them facts.Spin all you want Tunescribe, but bottom line you were proven wrong. The statement presented by you in the form it was, was incorrect. Only a 'numbskull' like you put it, cant see that. I really doubt you are one but you cant get out of it now so I understand what you are trying to do.

Joesixpat let it go, facts speak for themselves. Ben's statement couldn't have been more tailor made to contradict what Tunescribe stated. Now he is trying to get out of it. And as far as Hobbs statement, vrabel was on a few days back stating that they deserve to be booed as they 'sucked ', and Moss stated that the fins 'wanted it more' where Sey stated 'you cant jsut show up and expect to win' so that covers the effort part. People who dont believe it can look it up page 23 backed up with links.

Believe it or not I am somewhat dissapointed as even though am a lurker I have always thought highly of AJ's opinions and even Tunescribe's opinion about the sox. It is dissapointing to see such individuals call people names (especially as a moderator) and when proven wrong dont own up to it.

With all of that said I am done with this because there's nothing else to discuss other then insults and I have moved past that stage in my life.

 

[JoeSixPat]

You're right Joe, I should apologize....

That's quite an odd way of admitting that you know you were wrong now that Rothlisberger has made clear that the booing fans incited him and the team to play better, but thanks.

Apology accepted.

I think maybe you've blown a few synapses during this debate though if you're planning on using Rothlisberger's statement to justify booing the Patriots at all times. I hope you won't do that.

If you're still having a tough time understanding that different circumstances allow for different fan reactions, please let me know and I'll be happy to explain things to you in more detail!

 

[Tunescribe]

You're right Tunescribe, I have been an ignorant fool throughout this debate, and more than a bit stubborn. It is I who should apologize to you, and fellow posters. I also owe an apology to the Patriots organization, coach Belichick, and the players for defending the patently stupid, boorish behavior that was so embarrassing to the otherwise savvy fan base on Sept. 21. Mea culpa.

That's OK Joe, glad to see you finally come around. Don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[Ring 6]

Somehow, I keep getting addressed in all of these posts about things I could care less about, like what Ben Rothlisberger thinks of booing, or whether booing can motivate a player, and all other kinds of things.

I dont know why because there is one point I have been making in this thread:

Anyone who has been a fan of this team, who is invested emotionally in it, was through last year, through the Brady injury, an the 2-0 start, who sat in the stands of the first home game without Brady starting and by halftime, even if the score was 100-0 could boo this team, lacks character. They lack the basic social development to appreciate anything for 2 seconds without responding selfishly.

You can argue all you want about booing, its affect, what anyone thinks of it, but regardless of all of that, I think that someone who has had the benefit of ENJOYING THE SUCCESS of this team for as long as they have, and is so impatient that they feel they must (or deserve to) deride them after one half of bad football lacks character in my opinion.

No more, no less. If your appreciation for this team and what it has accomplished means that you can chastise, deride, and shout general and overall disapproval over one half of football on the heels of all that success, then you lack character.

We can talk all we want about booing, how it impacts players, how they feel about it and so forth, but none of that changes my opinion, which I will try to state clearly and concisely.

The fans of the New England Patriots have been given an extremely high amount of success to enjoy. The fans have derived great benefit from sitting around and doing nothing but being fans. Those fans owe some gratitude to the team. A fan whose gratitude for the success of this team as of September of 2008 is so low that he can malign, villify and communicate disgust based on one half of football lacks the character that such success deserves its fans to have.

Is it too much to ask to wait for more failure than one bad half of football to turn on a team that has given its fans this much success?
And make no mistake, booing is turning on the team. No matter what you want to say, or how you want to rationalize it, the first boo is the communication of "I no longer support you, my opinion of you is now negative". I think a fan of this team took great satisfaction in their success, and owes the team a little more latitude than communicating that they no longer support the team after one half of football.
Feel free to disagree with me, but in my opinion, disagreeing with this is taking the attiutude of a 5 year old child who acts however he feels like acting and isn't mature enough to understand the impact of his actions on others.

 

[Frezo]

Is it too much to ask to wait for more failure than one bad half of football to turn on a team that has given its fans this much success?

Would you be able accept fans booing if the team had played 4 or 5 games in a row like the Miami game?

 

[JoeSixPat]

That's OK Joe, glad to see you finally come around. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Thanks for sharing that insight into the depths of your delusion and deceit!

It's a fitting final word on your part to see you abandon solely twisting the words of others to suit your needs, resorting instead to outright fabrication.

 

[Tunescribe]

Thanks for sharing that insight into the depths of your delusion and deceit!

It's a fitting final word on your part to see you abandon solely twisting the words of others to suit your needs, resorting instead to outright fabrication.

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! BOOOOOOOO!!! (Have I inspired you yet?) BOOOOOO!!! BOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (Are you getting "motivated"?) BOOOOOO!!! (Are you getting the message to become a better poster?) BOOOOOOOOO!!! (Are you going to put out better effort now?) BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

[JAYHAWKS34]

out of curiosity when is this booing business going to be put to rest, after we win in San Fran??

 

[Tunescribe]

out of curiosity when is this booing business going to be put to rest, after we win in San Fran??

It depends on whether the booing enthusiasts show up in San Francisco intent on booing the Patriots to victory. :singing:





“Booing speaks of nothing more than fickle and ignorant fans. As a supporter you stand by your team, whether they win or lose. You have an opinion and tell your mate they sucked, but you show your disapproval by either not [attending] the next game or by silence. To boo is crass.“
-- Mark Keohane, Aug. 27 2008

"Booing? I don't hear it. I'm too busy playing quarterback."
-- John Brodie, 1967

“Does it hurt? It doesn’t hurt … [but] it amazes me how people react. You would think this organization hasn’t won as much as they have, and been as successful in the years that they have. It’s a testament to how spoiled they are ... "
-- Ellis Hobbs, Sept. 21, 2008

 

[Hank Poteat]

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! BOOOOOOOO!!! (Have I inspired you yet?) BOOOOOO!!! BOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (Are you getting "motivated"?) BOOOOOO!!! (Are you getting the message to become a better poster?) BOOOOOOOOO!!! (Are you going to put out better effort now?) BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Face it Tunescribe - you got pwned.

Big Ben came right out and said he and the team used the boos of the fans as motivation to play better.

You can be in denial about that if you want, but stop wasting everyone's time with these sort of childish responses.