Would You Have Bill Back If:

[Pape]

The better question for everyone but the saddest of Bill worshippers is where on the list of disgraceful exits for long-time, legendary coaches does Bill’s flameout rank? I have him at #2 behind Joe Paterno.

As for the geniuses who want the Krafts to sell, how many people to you think are out there who could afford $9 billion to buy the Pats and run the team like a hobby playing in a 25 year old stadium without even the dream of ever getting any public assistance keeping up the current stadium or replacing it? You’ll get your answer over the next couple of years after the Celtics are sold.

Did any "legendary" coach have to deal with free agency, cap management? I won't bring up rules tinkering because our offense took advantage and adapted quickly to that...

As for selling, eh that won't happen...it's Kraft's very own licence to print money...

 

[JohnJH]

Did any "legendary" coach have to deal with free agency, cap management? I won't bring up rules tinkering because our offense took advantage and adapted quickly to that...

As for selling, eh that won't happen...it's Kraft's very own licence to print money...

You're absolutely right about previous HC's not having to deal with a Cap or FA (which makes the run they had even more remarkable). I don't see the Kraft's selling the team anytime soon, but, as we've seen over just the last 20 years, teams being sold and/or relocated have happened. I did postulate the possibility that if the team goes on a multi-year run of horror, Kraft could sell the team and if it's not purchased by someone with huge pockets and wants to keep the team in New England (Southern New Hampshire would be my choice with no State Income Tax and just a nice area close to Pease/Portsmouth and such), we could, worst case scenario, see the team moved out of New England someday. But that's still far off of a possibility. But, not impossible.

 

[Wax Frog]

I'm also sorry for your loss. We can look back and be satisfied with the Team since 2001 because we were with the team before they achieved greatness. We've seen the team at its worst and it's best. Most fans, if they live to be 100, would love 6 SB championships in a 20 year span. So, I'll just watch this team and see if they can get pack to a respectable level again, although we shouldn't anticipate anything on a level that we've enjoyed for over 20 years. But, It doesn't have to be to that level to be enjoyable.

I was walking on clouds for a week after the fifth title, but it took the intervening years to fully understand why.

The Cliff Notes version is that my own peculiar path to Patriots fandom required a specific outcome for closure, and that outcome was so wonderfully and improbably reached with the words "He's IN!!!!!".The team I had chosen to back all those years ago had made the journey from irrelevance to NFL Olympus, and that could never be taken away.

It would take a good while to explain, but the only thing that would have made the run perfect for me is if one of those titles had come at the expense of Washington, I'm OK with that now - it was enough to see their roles reversed roughly within the same time period, with the latter becoming the joke. Ahh, my inner child and his schadenfreude!

 

[Wax Frog]

Did any "legendary" coach have to deal with free agency, cap management? I won't bring up rules tinkering because our offense took advantage and adapted quickly to that...

As for selling, eh that won't happen...it's Kraft's very own licence to print money...

I'll just have to keep popcorning Orchid Bob then. Bless you AI

 

[Pape]

You're absolutely right about previous HC's not having to deal with a Cap or FA (which makes the run they had even more remarkable). I don't see the Kraft's selling the team anytime soon, but, as we've seen over just the last 20 years, teams being sold and/or relocated have happened. I did postulate the possibility that if the team goes on a multi-year run of horror, Kraft could sell the team and if it's not purchased by someone with huge pockets and wants to keep the team in New England (Southern New Hampshire would be my choice with no State Income Tax and just a nice area close to Pease/Portsmouth and such), we could, worst case scenario, see the team moved out of New England someday. But that's still far off of a possibility. But, not impossible.

i once had the pleasure of meeting one of James Busch Orthwein's sons... He told me the biggest mistake his father had made was selling the Patriots... He made millions, missed out on billions... Yes its possible, but unless there is some piss poor estate planning going on, i would hazard a guess it won't happen

 

[Wax Frog]

i once had the pleasure of meeting one of James Busch Orthwein's sons... He told me the biggest mistake his father had made was selling the Patriots... He made millions, missed out on billions...

Semi-OT - I'm a lover of trivia, and this is one of the useless facts tucked away in my frighteningly tenacious memory:

Busch went to work for his father-in-law's brewery not because he loved beer (he famously drank wine for the most of his life, claiming beer to be "slop") but because he saw a lucrative business opportunity.

Here's the real story behind that Adolphus Busch Budweiser Super Bowl commercial

By now, this year’s Budweiser commercial during the Super Bowl has become the most viewed online of all the ads during this year’s big game. The ad…

www.stlpr.org

 

[Pape]

Semi-OT - I'm a lover of trivia, and this is one of the useless facts tucked away in my frighteningly tenacious memory:

Busch went to work for his father-in-law's brewery not because he loved beer (he famously drank wine for the most of his life, claiming beer to be "slop") but because he saw a lucrative business opportunity.

Here's the real story behind that Adolphus Busch Budweiser Super Bowl commercial

By now, this year’s Budweiser commercial during the Super Bowl has become the most viewed online of all the ads during this year’s big game. The ad…

www.stlpr.org

not... not... not real??? JFC Wax... What Next??? You gonna tell me Jamesons founder really didn't fight off the kraken after it stole a barrel of his hooch?

I mean, if you can't believe product commercials based on the exploits of their legendary founders, what can you really believe in any more???? **** me... Did Ernest Gallo really say and mean "i will sell no wine until its' time" ???

*heart shatters into a bajillion pieces*


lol, that was a cool read, thanks Bro.

 

[reflexblue]

Have him back? No, not at this point. His time in New England has run its course... The die have been cast, and we've moved on... no point in going backwards now...

However, I wouldn't have fired him at the end of last year either, least not the way it was handled by the Krafts... Bill earned better from them... My approach would have been to work with him to set up a revamped front office... Ultimately, i dont think he would have agreed to such a set up, but I would have made the attempt first...

I think the Krafts did him dirty in the way they handled his departure.... then the follow up hatchet job in The Dynasty... Lessened my opinion of Kraft more than somewhat...

You see how the team plays this year? it played the same sloppy undisciplined foot ball the last two years under BB. And every week BB would say in his presser that 'yeah, we have to play better', we have to coach better, but nothing changed. So no, i don't want him back.

 

[Pape]

You see how the team plays this year? it played the same sloppy undisciplined foot ball the last two years under BB. And every week BB would say in his presser that 'yeah, we have to play better, we have to coach better but nothing changed. So no, i don't want him back.

Agreed... his time in New England had run its course.

 

[Thelonious]

No, absolutely not. He had become a downright liability as GM. I assume everyone will agree with that. He had also declined as a HC in important respects. His confidence had degenerated into megalomania, leading him to assume that he could make any decision he wanted, whether based in impulse, nepotism, old-boy-he's-a pal horseshit, or on a childish and unrelective dislike of the young qb whose development had been entrusted to him by a multi-billion-dollar enterprise. Bill's protracted temper tantrum over his last couple of years, his utter neglect of his responsibility to develop a rookie quarterback were, in and of themselves, fireable offenses in my judgment. I hold this view entirely irrespective of my own assessment of Mac Jones' potential. It was Belichick's responsbility to ascertian and develop that potential in a professional manner. He chose to cop a childish and extended snit instead. Complete ******** move.. I am grateful for his good years, and on the basis of those years, he may well be the greatest football coach of all time, but I am glad he's gone, because over his last few years, he was, as the record amply shows, both as a GM and as HC, far more a liability than an asset.

 

[reflexblue]

Agreed... his time in New England had run its course.

As i look back I think he just check out his last couple of years here

 

[Pape]

As i look back I think he just check out his last couple of years here

i think 2022 did him in. I think he poisoned his own well when he installed Matt Patricia as the defacto OC.

While I am not a fan of Mac Jones, that did him, and by extension the team, wrong.

 

[NormZauchin]

Would not work. Dan Snyder brought back Joe Gibbs who had retired from the Redskins under far more favorable circumstances than Bill's departure from the Patriots, and Gibbs was not able to resurrect his and the team's former success.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Would not work. Dan Snyder brought back Joe Gibbs who had retired from the Redskins under far more favorable circumstances than Bill's departure from the Patriots, and Gibbs was not able to resurrect his and the team's former success.

So it wouldn't work for Bill after taking only one year off?

Gibbs took 12 years off. That's a big difference.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Recognizing talent isn't Bill's strong suit.

If that were the case, the Pats don't win one Super Bowl.

The major building blocks he identified were Brady, Seymour, Warren and Wilfork during the early years along with Branch, Samuel, Wilson, Light, Koppen, Andruzzi, Givens, Jarvis Green, Graham, Watson as good complementary players. Then you had the numerus trades and FA signings that got them 3 SB's in 4 years. The early years and the early 2010's were Bill's best.

However, the problems started in 2005 which carried through 2009. There just wasn't enough impact players from any of those drafts which contributed to the 10 year drought. The 2010 draft is what reignited their next run with Gronk, Hernandez and McCourty (when he moved to FS) and the 2012 draft getting Jones and Hightower. That was the core of the 2nd Dynasty.

It was the 2013-2023 drafts were when things got really rough. This team doesn't have one drafted Pro Bowl/All Pro player on offense or defense since Collins and Thuney.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

I lost a sister to cancer a couple years back myself, another parallel, one I'd rather we didn't have. Sorry for your loss.

I also freely admit that my behavior after that super bowl loss was not one of my shining moments; strange to reflect back over the years and see now how my relationship with the team, along with my fortunate penchant for introspection, actually helped me gain emotional maturity.

@Wax Frog

Don’t ever worry about your behavior, especially on a forum for your loved team. We get emotional and express it different ways. Being a ****/ difficult, especially online is nothing to worry about. I think we all have thick skin here. Well I do at least. Back before fb I was a HUGE nasty troll on my favorite musicians site. Know why? Because I could. Regret it sure but it means nothing ultimately. Ultimately it will be forgotten so no biggie. Personally I disappear after bad games due to feeling like ****.

 

[Wax Frog]

@Wax Frog

Don’t ever worry about your behavior, especially on a forum for your loved team. We get emotional and express it different ways. Being a ****/ difficult, especially online is nothing to worry about. I think we all have thick skin here. Well I do at least. Back before fb I was a HUGE nasty troll on my favorite musicians site. Know why? Because I could. Regret it sure but it means nothing ultimately. Ultimately it will be forgotten so no biggie. Personally I disappear after bad games due to feeling like ****.

Fortunately my worst days preceded my arrival on the internet scene. There were a few moments, mostly in chat rooms (remember those?), when my foot became deeply lodged in my mouth, but I learned my lessons while managing to avoid being a total ****.

On the other hand, I did engage in a sort of performance art in those chat rooms as a slightly crazed brat; the most fun was having some sharper-minded people see behind the curtain and get in on the joke. Good times!

One last thing - @PatsWickedPissah was witness to that early Wax Tadpole era; here's to the memory of alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots, may it ever shine bright!

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Fortunately my worst days preceded my arrival on the internet scene. There were a few moments, mostly in chat rooms (remember those?), when my foot became deeply lodged in my mouth, but I learned my lessons while managing to avoid being a total ****.

On the other hand, I did engage in a sort of performance art in those chat rooms as a slightly crazed brat; the most fun was having some sharper-minded people see behind the curtain and get in on the joke. Good times!

One last thing - @PatsWickedPissah was witness to that early Wax Tadpole era; here's to the memory of alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots, may it ever shine bright!

Oh I knew chatrooms lol. AOL mainly then irc. And thank you for calling it performance art lol. Perfect description! I was a total keyboard cowboy that gave zero ****s about what I said. And yes VERY GOOD TIMES! Now you have to vpn if you do that **** to not get doxxed or swatted…

 

[Wax Frog]

Oh I knew chatrooms lol. AOL mainly then irc. And thank you for calling it performance art lol. Perfect description! I was a total keyboard cowboy that gave zero ****s about what I said. And yes VERY GOOD TIMES! Now you have to vpn if you do that **** to not get doxxed or swatted…

Ah yes, IRC! I miss having that little flower in my tray. Now I almost wish I could get away from texting

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Ah yes, IRC! I miss having that little flower in my tray. Now I almost wish I could get away from texting

Hey you could always use irc and text from it lol. There’s ways…