Will Greed ruin the NFL?

[spacecrime]

Their shared revenue from TV alone is greater than the salary cap.

That means their variable income is guranteed to be greater than their variable expense.

This isn't true.THe income MAY be greater than expense, but not guaranteed. It depends on other income and expenses.THe expenses could easily exceed income for an owner with high debt payments.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I thought NFL players have the worst deal of all professional sports.

They are the ones who are most susceptible to career-ending injury, yet they don't have any guaranteed contract.

They also have the shortest career, yet they have very little post-retirement pension or medical benefit. Most players end up shouldering their own medical expenses from their own pocket.

In contrast to the players, NFL owners have the best deal in professional sports, often at the expense of the players. The worst NFL team is worth more than the best NBA team.

Technically you are correct - they do have the "worst" contracts in the major professional sports when you consider the guaranteed contracts.

But this is exactly why you are a fan of the NFL.

Or would you rather see a system like baseball where huge guaranteed contracts are paid out - and when the players lose their skills they continue to play, simply because their salaries demand it... thereby keeping better players on the bench or in the minor leagues, and ensuring that the best possible sports product is NOT on the field.

The NBA is the same but worse - with teams feeling pressued to fill up a 15 man roster with high school kids with potential but no immediate ability to play, and albatross contracts taking up most of the other spots.

So if you want to advocate that the NFL should follow the lead of other sports, I think you're going to be on your own among other fans....

...Unless, that is, you're disappointed we don't have Bledsoe playing for us under his $103 million, GUARANTEED contract until 2010 while Brady sits on the bench.

 

[shmessy]

Mikey wrote: "Bob Kraft likes to mention that he invested $350M of his own money on the team and stadium. But he won't tell you that that investment is now worth over $1.2 B."
_________________

Thanks for the misinformation, Mikey! With people like you in our society, I can see why so many folks are suckered out of their life savings each and every year.

Tell me, is that $350 million really ALL that Kraft has invested in the team since 1994?

Or is it more realistically that $350 million was what he has invested in the NEW STADIUM. Perhaps you'd like to ignore the $172 million he PAID for the team in 1994. Or the average $55+ million per year he has paid since then in player salaries. Let's not forget the coaches, executives and organizational staff.

So quit insulting everyone's intelligence with your lies.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Also, 'worth" doesn't mean cash.


If your house is worth $350,000 today, how much of that can you spend if you don't sell it? Maybe when you decide to sell if or have to sell it, it maybe be "worth" $200,000.

 

[mikey]

Mikey wrote: "Bob Kraft likes to mention that he invested $350M of his own money on the team and stadium. But he won't tell you that that investment is now worth over $1.2 B."
_________________

Thanks for the misinformation, Mikey! With people like you in our society, I can see why so many folks are suckered out of their life savings each and every year.

Tell me, is that $350 million really ALL that Kraft has invested in the team since 1994?

Or is it more realistically that $350 million was what he has invested in the NEW STADIUM. Perhaps you'd like to ignore the $172 million he PAID for the team in 1994. Or the average $55+ million per year he has paid since then in player salaries. Let's not forget the coaches, executives and organizational staff.

So quit insulting everyone's intelligence with your lies.

shmessy,

It was not my intention to lie or to mislead, as you asserted in your posting.

And it was certainly not my intention to bash Mr. Kraft.

If you decide to include the $55 milllion per year he paid for salaries, then you should also include the shared revenues he received from the league, which is in fact greater than the $55 million.

You are right, I should have included the initial $172 million into his investment. But then you should also include the tax-deductible benefit he received from the depreciation of the stadium.

I don't want to go into the economic nuance of owning an NFL team, but the bottom line is the Mr. Kraft is one of the 300 wealthiest Americans courtesy of the New England Patriots. And I thought the reason for this is the league's "share-the-wealth" and salary cap models, which are in danger of dismantling right now.


.

 

[shmessy]

shmessy,

It was not my intention to lie or to mislead, as you asserted in your posting.

And it was certainly not my intention to bash Mr. Kraft.

If you decide to include the $55 milllion per year he paid for salaries, then you should also include the shared revenues he received from the league, which is in fact greater than the $55 million.

You are right, I should have included the initial $172 million into his investment. But then you should also include the tax-deductible benefit he received from the depreciation of the stadium.

I don't want to go into the economic nuance of owning an NFL team, but the bottom line is the Mr. Kraft is one of the 300 wealthiest Americans courtesy of the New England Patriots. And I thought the reason for this is the league's "share-the-wealth" and salary cap models, which are in danger of dismantling right now.


.

"Mr. Kraft is one of the 300 wealthiest Americans courtesy of the New England Patriots."

_____________

Wow. It sure was nice of the New England Patriots to build up his wealth without any of his own blood, sweat, tears AND PERSONAL RISK. When he bought that "powerhouse" franchise from the geniuses Kiam and Orthwein, he was getting a "steal" for the $172 million price (at that time, the highest price ever paid for an NFL team - one that was a laughingstock, by the way). The Patriots were just selling out every game and New Englanders were wearing their Pats T-shirts everywhere. Kiam had this franchise making money hand over fist.

You continue to insult everyone's intellignece here with your wording that Kraft has become wealthy "courtesy of the New England Patriots". I have news for you. Without Kraft, there is no "New England Patriots". Bledsoe din't risk his money, Parcells didn't build the stadium, Brady didn't market the team, abd Belichick didn't create the first team owned streaming web-site in the 1990's.

By the way, the REAL money that the NFL shares with all the owners (stupid one and geniuses alike) is from the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR NETWORK TV DEALS............the negotiations of which have been spearheaded and led the past 9 years by your 'Mr. Lucky'.

Your posts in this thread are incredible.

What goes through the mind of someone so hopelessly lost?

 

[JR4]

"Mr. Kraft is one of the 300 wealthiest Americans courtesy of the New England Patriots."

_____________

Wow. It sure was nice of the New England Patriots to build up his wealth without any of his own blood, sweat, tears AND PERSONAL RISK. When he bought that "powerhouse" franchise from the geniuses Kiam and Orthwein, he was getting a "steal" for the $172 million price (at that time, the highest price ever paid for an NFL team - one that was a laughingstock, by the way). The Patriots were just selling out every game and New Englanders were wearing their Pats T-shirts everywhere. Kiam had this franchise making money hand over fist.

You continue to insult everyone's intellignece here with your wording that Kraft has become wealthy "courtesy of the New England Patriots". I have news for you. Without Kraft, there is no "New England Patriots". Bledsoe din't risk his money, Parcells didn't build the stadium, Brady didn't market the team, abd Belichick didn't create the first team owned streaming web-site in the 1990's.

By the way, the REAL money that the NFL shares with all the owners (stupid one and geniuses alike) is from the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR NETWORK TV DEALS............the negotiations of which have been spearheaded and led the past 9 years by your 'Mr. Lucky'.

Your posts in this thread are incredible.

What goes through the mind of someone so hopelessly lost?

Come on shmessy, stop ragging on Mikey. You're entitled to your opinion
as is Mikey. That doesn't mean you need to use phrases like
"continue to insult everyone's intellignece(sp) " which is simply not true
or
"the mind of someone so hopelessly lost" which is degrading and not called
for.

If people can't express their opinion without a personal assult by people
like, you why should they?
Opinions are Opinions and everyone has one and if it differs from yours why
should you degrade that person?
I know children do that but I think most here are beyond that including you.
It should be sufficient to state facts and demonstrate your position without
degrading a person who is simply stating his/her opinion.

--------------

In My Opinion,(IMO), The credit for the Patriots rise to stardome was
NOT the purchase of the stadium or even the team. It was Kraft's selection
of Parcels. That led to his relationship with Belichick and we know the rest.
In fact if Parcels had not been available, all that good stuff that has happened
may never have happened no matter how many new stadiums Kraft had built.
IMO!
One could even build a case for Bob Kraft just being in the right
place at the right time ..... no genius envolved at all ... just fate.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Come on shmessy, stop ragging on Mikey. You're entitled to your opinion
as is Mikey. That doesn't mean you need to use phrases like
"continue to insult everyone's intellignece(sp) " which is simply not true
or
"the mind of someone so hopelessly lost" which is degrading and not called
for.

If people can't express their opinion without a personal assult by people
like, you why should they?
Opinions are Opinions and everyone has one and if it differs from yours why
should you degrade that person?
I know children do that but I think most here are beyond that including you.
It should be sufficient to state facts and demonstrate your position without
degrading a person who is simply stating his/her opinion.

--------------

In My Opinion,(IMO), The credit for the Patriots rise to stardome was
NOT the purchase of the stadium or even the team. It was Kraft's selection
of Parcels. That led to his relationship with Belichick and we know the rest.
In fact if Parcels had not been available, all that good stuff that has happened
may never have happened no matter how many new stadiums Kraft had built.
IMO!
One could even build a case for Bob Kraft just being in the right
place at the right time ..... no genius envolved at all ... just fate.

Bob Kraft never 'selected' Parcells. Parcells was hired by James Orthwien(sp) who was a temp owner after Victor Kiam ran the franchise into financial ruin. Kraft and Parcells never got along.

When Parcells decided he wanted to coach the JEST, Kraft made the mistake of hiring Pete Carroll and Bobby Grier to run the football operations. However, Kraft was still doing things to make the franchise fiancially viable.

Now, Kraft is smart enough to learn from his mistakes and hired Belichick. Parcells had nothing to do with it. Belichick was suppose to take over as HC of the Jets. Kraft could have hired someone else. In fact, Belichick was considered a "loser" in a lot of NFL circles because his experience in Cleveland.

It took guts and foresight on Krafts part to hire Belichick. Being in the right place at the right time had nothing to do with it. It may seem that way, and you could build a case for it, if you didn't know all of the facts.

Now, if you don't believe what I said, read Patriot Reign and Education of a Coach and tell me if I'm factually wrong.

 

[patpatriot]

You are all missing the point!

JR4 and Mikey:

I am as "red" as the sunrise..for real..card carrying socialist. However even I must say that the NEP, and to some large extent the NFL, are where they are today because of 1 man: Bob Kraft.

He's the one who took all the risks (real risks, he could have lost everything on this investment..see Victor Kiam). He's the one that has dragged the rest of the owners kicking and screaming into the 21st century business-wise. He has never shown himself to be other than a completely ethical and very savy businessman, a model husband, father and community member to boot!

Now as a reward, the boobs and carpetbaggers are trying to make him out to be "the problem". Wake the F up! Wrong Borges has done it again! He cites 8 or 9 owners as the problem but who does he single out? Sound familiar?

Jesus wept!

Schmessy..RIGHT ON!

 

[Pats726]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
According to ProFootballTalk.com...the leaving of Upshaw is really a ruse to get the CBA done...Hmmm interesting.. I hope they are truly looking at 3/7 as the date...

 

[DaBruinz]

shmessy,

It was not my intention to lie or to mislead, as you asserted in your posting.

And it was certainly not my intention to bash Mr. Kraft.

If you decide to include the $55 milllion per year he paid for salaries, then you should also include the shared revenues he received from the league, which is in fact greater than the $55 million.

You are right, I should have included the initial $172 million into his investment. But then you should also include the tax-deductible benefit he received from the depreciation of the stadium.

I don't want to go into the economic nuance of owning an NFL team, but the bottom line is the Mr. Kraft is one of the 300 wealthiest Americans courtesy of the New England Patriots. And I thought the reason for this is the league's "share-the-wealth" and salary cap models, which are in danger of dismantling right now.


.

Mikey -
More misinformation on your part.

1) The league revenue sharing has NOT provided Kraft with over $55 million a year. That is a lie on your part. See, Gate receipts are currently included in the revenue sharing

2) Kraft was wealthy BEFORE he ever owned the Patriots. VERY WEALTHY. The Patriots have increased his wealth, yes, but Kraft also spend an exuberant amount of money in marketing to get the team to being profitable.

3) Most capital projects have a 10:1 ROI. Meaning that you should get back 10 times what you put in. Well, Kraft hasn't made 5 billion yet to my knowledge.

 

[JR4]

Bob Kraft never 'selected' Parcells. Parcells was hired by James Orthwien(sp) who was a temp owner after Victor Kiam ran the franchise into financial ruin. Kraft and Parcells never got along.

When Parcells decided he wanted to coach the JEST, Kraft made the mistake of hiring Pete Carroll and Bobby Grier to run the football operations. However, Kraft was still doing things to make the franchise fiancially viable.

Now, Kraft is smart enough to learn from his mistakes and hired Belichick. Parcells had nothing to do with it. Belichick was suppose to take over as HC of the Jets. Kraft could have hired someone else. In fact, Belichick was considered a "loser" in a lot of NFL circles because his experience in Cleveland.

It took guts and foresight on Krafts part to hire Belichick. Being in the right place at the right time had nothing to do with it. It may seem that way, and you could build a case for it, if you didn't know all of the facts.

Now, if you don't believe what I said, read Patriot Reign and Education of a Coach and tell me if I'm factually wrong.

I believe you. Thanks for the correction.

Yes Belichick had a bum rap there but the association Kraft developed with
Belichick gave him a good insight into the man. The fact Parcels was here before Kraft means you could say kraft walked into the situation , got to
know Belichick and the rest was history. Parcels started turning this
organization around which meant more excitement and sellout crowds.

When Belichick first became HC I can remember some negative stuff being
said and many fans here not really knowing what to expect.
But I also remember listening to Belichick in his press conferences. After
one short month it was obvious this guy was super smart ... a knowledge guy.
I can only imagine that Bob Kraft had to have been impressed with Belichick
as he talk with him while he was here with Parcels.

Kraft still had to act on what he learned. That he hired Belichick is
his biggest crown of Glory, IMO. That Parcels was here when got here
was his good fortune.

 

[mikey]

Mikey -
More misinformation on your part.

1) The league revenue sharing has NOT provided Kraft with over $55 million a year. That is a lie on your part. See, Gate receipts are currently included in the revenue sharing

2) Kraft was wealthy BEFORE he ever owned the Patriots. VERY WEALTHY. The Patriots have increased his wealth, yes, but Kraft also spend an exuberant amount of money in marketing to get the team to being profitable.

3) Most capital projects have a 10:1 ROI. Meaning that you should get back 10 times what you put in. Well, Kraft hasn't made 5 billion yet to my knowledge.

Hi Dabruinz,

#1) I made my assertion based on a recent NY Times article about the league revenue sharing. Unfortunately, the article is is no longer free. However, I was able to copy and paste the article on a previous thread on this forum.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=30858

To be sure, it's almost impossible to lose money in the N.F.L., thanks mainly to the league's policy of sharing equally the almost $4 billion it reaps from its TV contracts and certain other revenues. For this past season, each of the 32 teams will get $112.5 million from what's called the N.F.L.'s central fund — an amount well in excess of the $100 million salary and benefits cap. "The N.F.L.," says Red McCombs, a San Antonio native who used to own the Minnesota Vikings, "has built the best business model in sports."

According to the article, each team receives $112.5 million from the league revenue sharing, which is greater than the $100 million salary and benefit caps.

#2) According the the following links from Forbes Magazine:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/54/GSI4.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/30/Rank_1.html

Robert Kraft is worth $1.1 Billion.
The New England Patriots is worth $1.04 Billion

This means that Kraft's other assets besides the Patriots is just $40 million. Certainly, a large amount, but nothing to write home about.

.

 

[spacecrime]

This means that Kraft's other assets besides the Patriots is just $40 million. Certainly, a large amount, but nothing to write home about.

.

This is the most moronic thing I have read on this board. Kraft most certainly is worth more than $40 million not counting ownership of the team.

 

[mikey]

This is the most moronic thing I have read on this board. Kraft most certainly is worth more than $40 million not counting ownership of the team.

Wow .. my bad.

If Kraft is worth 1,100 million and the Patriots is worth 1,040 million, the Kraft's other assets is worth $60 million (1,100 million - 1,040 million) .

Those numbers came from the Forbes articles.


.

 

[shmessy]

Wow .. my bad.

If Kraft is worth 1,100 million and the Patriots is worth 1,040 million, the Kraft's other assets is worth $60 million (1,100 million - 1,040 million) .

Those numbers came from the Forbes articles.


.

OK, so outside of the Patriots, Bob Kraft is only worth $60 million.

You just can't help yourself can you? So, if I hear you correctly, the Revolution, Rand Whitney and International Forest Products combined are worth less than $60 million?


For your education, here's a look at the Kraft Group:

http://www.randwhitney.com/index.cfm?ac=kraftGroup

 

[shmessy]

JR4 and Mikey:

I am as "red" as the sunrise..for real..card carrying socialist. However even I must say that the NEP, and to some large extent the NFL, are where they are today because of 1 man: Bob Kraft.

He's the one who took all the risks (real risks, he could have lost everything on this investment..see Victor Kiam). He's the one that has dragged the rest of the owners kicking and screaming into the 21st century business-wise. He has never shown himself to be other than a completely ethical and very savy businessman, a model husband, father and community member to boot!

Now as a reward, the boobs and carpetbaggers are trying to make him out to be "the problem". Wake the F up! Wrong Borges has done it again! He cites 8 or 9 owners as the problem but who does he single out? Sound familiar?

Jesus wept!

Schmessy..RIGHT ON!

Thanks Pat.