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Wide Receivers depth chart


350 yards and 1 td is not what the Pats are looking for after choosing a WR as high as Thorton. Jonnu Smith produced 284 yards and 1 td and nobody here is waving pom poms over last season.
God you're all over the map and twisting yourself into a pretzel to tell us how how the most successful franchise in pro football history is bad at football.

You said Edelman wasn't a WR... when he clearly was having been converted to a WR when he left college, having caught passes as a rookie, having been listed as such on the Patriots website. So don't dance around it... you were wrong.
Edelman was so good that he hardly played WR for the next 2 seasons.
Literally the point of the Edelman comparison... you know, the one you disagreed with earlier and stated Edelman wasn't a WR... now you agree with it that he needed time to develop and an opportunity.
Why? Spin me up a good story.
You're spinning in circles all your own... you went from disagreeing with me to agreeing with me on the same thread so you could tell someone else they were wrong.
Nonsense is the idea that the Pats drafted Thorton and are willing to wait 5 years to develop him.
Who said this ^ at all?

Nobody is the answer... but if it takes one or two he won't be a "bust," he'll be a rookie who needed time to figure it out.
It took Edelman 5 years to land at WR for good. He is the only player in 20 years who you can point to and claim that NE isnt terrible at drafting WRs.
Deion Branch was Super Bowl MVP and a two time Super Bowl champion... David Givens from the same draft class was decent considering he was a 7th rounder, Malcolm Mitchell was a very good receiver who developed chronic knee issues, it doesn't change the fact he was good. Braxton Berrios who needed four years to develop also just made the Pro Bowl, he said he needed to get cut in order to realize he needed to improve. There's also been UDFA guys like David Patten and Jakobi Meyers who have developed into quality WR's.

Over the last two decades very few teams have drafted fewer WR's than the Pats, they prefer vets... and not surprisingly stats have shown rookie WR's have one of the highest rates of failure in draft history. You sure have a talent for telling it like it isn't...
 
I dont know if it needs to be mentioned but BB cant draft WRs Did everyone know that BB cant draft WRs? I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew BB can not draft WRs by mentioning BB cant draft WRs because......BB cant draft WRs

I'll make sure to remind everyone in every thread since nobody else seems to want to take lead on this. Its an important issue and it kinda takes away all the success of the last 20 years.
 


Seems too high. 7 guys at $10M each? Or are they including Slater and others? Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Harry, and Parker are all well under $10M.
 
Seems too high. 7 guys at $10M each? Or are they including Slater and others? Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Harry, and Parker are all well under $10M.
Possibly total contract value? IDK
 

I’d like to know the breakdown on WR’s and where they rank because we already know the TE’s are among the highest paid in the league. So it kind of skews it a bit.

Horrendous money management by the Giants and Jaguars though.
 
Seems too high. 7 guys at $10M each? Or are they including Slater and others? Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Harry, and Parker are all well under $10M.
All WRs and TEs.
 
I’d like to know the breakdown on WR’s and where they rank because we already know the TE’s are among the highest paid in the league. So it kind of skews it a bit.

Horrendous money management by the Giants and Jaguars though.
I think we're #1 and #3 on WRs and TEs or vice versa.
 
Guessing that includes the TEs. What an embarrassing graphic for the Patriots.
Why would they be embarrassed? The Patriots were 6th in offensive scoring last year and most likely will improve this year.

Yep, they had a series of bad drafts and had to shore up the WR and TE positions via free agency, but all of the contracts were 2 year contacts which maximizes flexibility while driving the spending average up for this year. They won't lead the league is spending in this category next year.

They should be embarrassed if they ever have back to back losing records, but not because of how the sausage is made.
 
Why would they be embarrassed? The Patriots were 6th in offensive scoring last year and most likely will improve this year.

Yep, they had a series of bad drafts and had to shore up the WR and TE positions via free agency, but all of the contracts were 2 year contacts which maximizes flexibility while driving the spending average up for this year. They won't lead the league is spending in this category next year.

They should be embarrassed if they ever have back to back losing records, but not because of how the sausage is made.

That free agency "haul" was crap, as many of us said at the time. Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, and Nelson Agholor for roughly $40M AAV? How is that efficient spending? The Pats backloaded those contracts, so now the big money is due. And they're not two year contracts for Smith and Henry; trying to get out of them next year would come at a fairly big dead cap hit, so they'd need to extend them to spread it out. Smith, in particular, might be the worst FA signing in the NFL last year. They'd need to take a cap hit of over $13M in 2023 just to part ways with him, as he's almost fully guaranteed for three years. People don't realize just how "all-in" the Patriots were in 2021. They paid very little on their FA signings and backloaded it aggressively, way above the cap spike percentage.

What do you mean by "maximizes flexibility" ? Sounds like some Billspeak to spin everything into an ingenious move, when in fact the 2021 contracts were completely against the grain of everything Bill has done previously in free agency. These contracts do not maximize flexibility at all; they're merely huge money dumps that tie up cap space to minimize flexibility. They lost a star player (Jackson) and had almost no money to spend this offseason for a reason.

Hunter Henry (cap hit)
2021 - 6.8
2022 - 15
2023 - 15.5 (or dead cap of 5)

Jonnu Smith
2021 - 5.6
2022 - 13.7
2023 - 14.8
2024 - 15.8 (or dead cap of 3.8)

Nelson Agholor
2021 - 6.9
2022 - 14.8

2021 Total Cap Hit: 19.3
2022 Total Cap Hit: 43.8

It's an open question if Agholor is even good enough to make the roster, or maybe he'll be a #4 type of receiver. Smith isn't good and never has been. Henry is a solid, unspectacular tight end. They're paying 43.8M this year for those three. That's embarassing.
 
That free agency "haul" was crap, as many of us said at the time. Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, and Nelson Agholor for roughly $40M AAV? How is that efficient spending? The Pats backloaded those contracts, so now the big money is due. And they're not two year contracts for Smith and Henry; trying to get out of them next year would come at a fairly big dead cap hit, so they'd need to extend them to spread it out. Smith, in particular, might be the worst FA signing in the NFL last year. They'd need to take a cap hit of over $13M in 2023 just to part ways with him, as he's almost fully guaranteed for three years. People don't realize just how "all-in" the Patriots were in 2021. They paid very little on their FA signings and backloaded it aggressively, way above the cap spike percentage.

What do you mean by "maximizes flexibility" ? Sounds like some Billspeak to spin everything into an ingenious move, when in fact the 2021 contracts were completely against the grain of everything Bill has done previously in free agency. These contracts do not maximize flexibility at all; they're merely huge money dumps that tie up cap space to minimize flexibility. They lost a star player (Jackson) and had almost no money to spend this offseason for a reason.

Hunter Henry (cap hit)
2021 - 6.8
2022 - 15
2023 - 15.5 (or dead cap of 5)

Jonnu Smith
2021 - 5.6
2022 - 13.7
2023 - 14.8
2024 - 15.8 (or dead cap of 3.8)

Nelson Agholor
2021 - 6.9
2022 - 14.8

2021 Total Cap Hit: 19.3
2022 Total Cap Hit: 43.8

It's an open question if Agholor is even good enough to make the roster, or maybe he'll be a #4 type of receiver. Smith isn't good and never has been. Henry is a solid, unspectacular tight end. They're paying 43.8M this year for those three. That's embarassing.
This is some terrible terrible analysis… I wouldn’t know where to begin.
 
That free agency "haul" was crap, as many of us said at the time. Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, and Nelson Agholor for roughly $40M AAV? How is that efficient spending? The Pats backloaded those contracts, so now the big money is due. And they're not two year contracts for Smith and Henry; trying to get out of them next year would come at a fairly big dead cap hit, so they'd need to extend them to spread it out. Smith, in particular, might be the worst FA signing in the NFL last year. They'd need to take a cap hit of over $13M in 2023 just to part ways with him, as he's almost fully guaranteed for three years. People don't realize just how "all-in" the Patriots were in 2021. They paid very little on their FA signings and backloaded it aggressively, way above the cap spike percentage.

What do you mean by "maximizes flexibility" ? Sounds like some Billspeak to spin everything into an ingenious move, when in fact the 2021 contracts were completely against the grain of everything Bill has done previously in free agency. These contracts do not maximize flexibility at all; they're merely huge money dumps that tie up cap space to minimize flexibility. They lost a star player (Jackson) and had almost no money to spend this offseason for a reason.

Hunter Henry (cap hit)
2021 - 6.8
2022 - 15
2023 - 15.5 (or dead cap of 5)

Jonnu Smith
2021 - 5.6
2022 - 13.7
2023 - 14.8
2024 - 15.8 (or dead cap of 3.8)

Nelson Agholor
2021 - 6.9
2022 - 14.8

2021 Total Cap Hit: 19.3
2022 Total Cap Hit: 43.8

It's an open question if Agholor is even good enough to make the roster, or maybe he'll be a #4 type of receiver. Smith isn't good and never has been. Henry is a solid, unspectacular tight end. They're paying 43.8M this year for those three. That's embarassing.

I apologize, I posted in haste, you are obviously correct about the 3 to 4 year contracts for Henry and Smith (also Bourne), I meant to say 2 to 3 year contracts for the bulk of the players (excluding Smith). Regarding cap flexibility, I’m referring to not getting bogged down by long term contracts or overly large contracts. I believe that the Patriots, although overpaying for several contracts, did not make any disastrous blunders either by contract length or amount.

Let’s look at the big picture, did the Patriots improve after the 2020 FA class without mortgaging their future? Spoiler: Yep

Patriots’ offense improved from 27th to 6th in scoring
The Patriots improved their win total from 7 to 10
The Patriots currently have the second most 2023 cap space.
The Patriots currently have the fourth most 2024 cap space.
The Patriots are projected to have 10 draft picks in 2023
The Patriots have trade opportunities within certain position groups to accumulate more draft picks.

Let’s take a closer look at the cap hits for the 2021 FA’s left in 2023:

Matt Judon 16.5 PFF top 35 contract
Hunter Henry 15.0 Not a bargain, for 2023 could be fair value to slightly overpaid
Jonnu Smith 13.7 Overpaid but production to pay ratio should improve
Kendrick Bourne 6.4 PFF top 35 contract
Jalen Mills 6.0 Fair contract

Other factors to consider when evaluating offensive FA’s:
  1. First year learning curve for players.
  2. First year learning curve exacerbated by large FA class and rookie QB.
  3. Learning curve for coaches to learn how to best utilize FA’s.

The amount of money dedicated to each position group will fluctuate yearly, and it’s ok to pay the most money for that group for a year and not have the group performance be relative to the money spent if their performance is adequate enough, and the future cap space is not overly taxed. The passing stats should improve significantly from last year, and they are amongst the leaders in the league in future cap space. Again, nothing to be embarrassed by.
 
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That free agency "haul" was crap, as many of us said at the time. Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, and Nelson Agholor for roughly $40M AAV? How is that efficient spending? The Pats backloaded those contracts, so now the big money is due.
You seem to say everything the Patriots do is crap, I suspect you said Gilmore other great free agent signings were crap... do you ever come back here and admit when you were wrong?

Big money? They're near the 90 man roster limit now, who do they need to sign? Agholor is in the final year of his deal, he could be traded tomorrow, he could be extended tomorrow and his cap hit would be nothing, it could possibly open up a bunch of cap space... he's essentially on a one year deal in 2022.
And they're not two year contracts for Smith and Henry; trying to get out of them next year would come at a fairly big dead cap hit, so they'd need to extend them to spread it out. Smith, in particular, might be the worst FA signing in the NFL last year. They'd need to take a cap hit of over $13M in 2023 just to part ways with him, as he's almost fully guaranteed for three years. People don't realize just how "all-in" the Patriots were in 2021. They paid very little on their FA signings and backloaded it aggressively, way above the cap spike percentage.
Why the F would they want out from under Hunter Henry's contract, he was one of the best TE's in football last season. He was tied for the most TD's by any TE in the entire NFL last year on an offense that ranked 25th in passing attempts. He was a rookie QB's best friend.

And speaking of rookie QB's, you seriously believe that Agholor and Jonnu's receiving yards and TD's were cut in half from the year prior because their talent fell off? Absurd.

The Patriots didn't sign Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes in the offseason, they drafted a QB. And at the end of one disheartening loss, can't recall whether it was the Miami opener where Harris fumbled on the goal line or the Tampa game where Folk missed the game winner, but Mac was wandering around the field looking upset. Bill literally grabbed his hand and quickly led him off the field like a small lost child so he wouldn't open his mouth to some reporter in frustration.

Mac was a rookie. Many of you guys are acting like he was a ten year vet and the passing game should reflect that because the Pats went out and bought a bunch of high priced free agent weapons... laughable. He was a rookie, they ranked 25th in pass attempts for that reason. At one point early in the season he was top ten in pass attempts, then they seriously curtailed his attempts. They were protecting Mac from himself. He needed to be held by the hand and shown the way. You guys act like he was an season All Pro vet who was failed by his weapons... it was the other way around, despite how well he may have played as a rookie.
What do you mean by "maximizes flexibility" ? Sounds like some Billspeak to spin everything into an ingenious move, when in fact the 2021 contracts were completely against the grain of everything Bill has done previously in free agency. These contracts do not maximize flexibility at all; they're merely huge money dumps that tie up cap space to minimize flexibility. They lost a star player (Jackson) and had almost no money to spend this offseason for a reason.
"Billspeak" = typical BB hating rhetoric which shows a clear bias.

When in the history of BB's tenure in New England were they starting completely over, had cleared the entirety of their dead cap, had huge gaping holes on their roster and means to fill them? Never is the answer, of we might have to back to the early 2000's and even then they signed many of their own free agents. It wasn't Bill who did something different, the circumstances were different than any time in his tenure. They were coming off 4 Super Bowls with 3 victories and had burned through all their cap to make it happen. It was a rebuild, from the ground up. Almost every offseason in the two decades in between they were signing their own free agents instead of other teams... that was the major difference.
It's an open question if Agholor is even good enough to make the roster, or maybe he'll be a #4 type of receiver. Smith isn't good and never has been. Henry is a solid, unspectacular tight end. They're paying 43.8M this year for those three. That's embarassing.
This is just a joke. Agholor coming off a season with the Raiders where he had nearly 1000 yards, 8 TD's and led the NFL in yards per reception suddenly fell off... just coincidently when he was paired with a rookie QB and an O-Line that for the first quarter of the season didn't know who to block... so now he's in danger of getting cut or might be a #4 at best. Sounds legit.

Smith wasn't good in Tennessee where they ranked 31st and 30th in pass attempts his last two years there and he had to share targets with AJ Brown and Corey Davis? Does blocking count for anything... is this fantasy football we're talking about? Jonnu was one of the most coveted TE free agents in the league that offseason because he was good, you don't WTF you're talking about.

Hunter Henry has been one of the best TE's in the league anytime he has been healthy, he has obviously had some health issues, but stayed healthy all last season. Embarrassing is the negativity infused in every post you make here, where players on other teams are good or even great but the moment they become Patriots they suddenly suck. Take your meds.
 
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You seem to say everything the Patriots do is crap, I suspect you said Gilmore other great free agent signings were crap... do you ever come back here and admit when you were wrong?

Big money? They're near the 90 man roster limit now, who do they need to sign? Agholor is in the final year of his deal, he could be traded tomorrow, he could be extended tomorrow and his cap hit would be nothing, it could possibly open up a bunch of cap space... he's essentially on a one year deal in 2022.

Why the F would they want out from under Hunter Henry's contract, he was one of the best TE's in football last season. He was tied for the most TD's by any TE in the entire NFL last year on an offense that ranked 25th in passing attempts. He was a rookie QB's best friend.

And speaking of rookie QB's, you seriously believe that Agholor and Jonnu's receiving yards and TD's were cut in half from the year prior because their talent fell off? Absurd.

The Patriots didn't sign Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes in the offseason, they drafted a QB. And at the end of one disheartening loss, can't recall whether it was the Miami opener where Harris fumbled on the goal line or the Tampa game where Folk missed the game winner, but Mac was wandering around the field looking upset. Bill literally grabbed his hand and quickly led him off the field like a small lost child so he wouldn't open his mouth to some reporter in frustration.

Mac was a rookie. Many of you guys are acting like he was a ten year vet and the passing game should reflect that because the Pats went out and bought a bunch of high priced free agent weapons... laughable. He was a rookie, they ranked 25th in pass attempts for that reason. At one point early in the season he was top ten in pass attempts, then they seriously curtailed his attempts. They were protecting Mac from himself. He needed to be held by the hand and shown the way. You guys act like he was an season All Pro vet who was failed by his weapons... it was the other way around, despite how well he may have played as a rookie.

"Billspeak" = typical BB hating rhetoric which shows a clear bias.

When in the history of BB's tenure in New England were they starting completely over, had cleared the entirety of their dead cap, had huge gaping holes on their roster and means to fill them? Never is the answer, of we might have to back to the early 2000's and even then they signed many of their own free agents. It wasn't Bill who did something different, the circumstances were different than any time in his tenure. They were coming off 4 Super Bowls with 3 victories and had burned through all their cap to make it happen. It was a rebuild, from the ground up. Almost every offseason in the two decades in between they were signing their own free agents instead of other teams... that was the major difference.

This is just a joke. Agholor coming off a season with the Raiders where he had nearly 1000 yards, 8 TD's and led the NFL in yards per reception suddenly fell off... just coincidently when he was paired with a rookie QB and an O-Line that for the first quarter of the season didn't know who to block... so now he's in danger of getting cut or might be a #4 at best. Sounds legit.

Smith wasn't good in Tennessee where they ranked 31st and 30th in pass attempts his last two years there and he had to share targets with AJ Brown and Corey Davis? Does blocking count for anything... is this fantasy football we're talking about? Jonnu was one of the most coveted TE free agents in the league that offseason because he was good, you don't WTF you're talking about.

Hunter Henry has been one of the best TE's in the league anytime he has been healthy, he has obviously had some health issues, but stayed healthy all last season. Embarrassing is the negativity infused in every post you make here, where players on other teams are good or even great but the moment they become Patriots they suddenly suck. Take your meds.

Lol...dude, get help.
 
That free agency "haul" was crap, as many of us said at the time. Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, and Nelson Agholor for roughly $40M AAV? How is that efficient spending? The Pats backloaded those contracts, so now the big money is due. And they're not two year contracts for Smith and Henry; trying to get out of them next year would come at a fairly big dead cap hit, so they'd need to extend them to spread it out. Smith, in particular, might be the worst FA signing in the NFL last year. They'd need to take a cap hit of over $13M in 2023 just to part ways with him, as he's almost fully guaranteed for three years. People don't realize just how "all-in" the Patriots were in 2021. They paid very little on their FA signings and backloaded it aggressively, way above the cap spike percentage.

What do you mean by "maximizes flexibility" ? Sounds like some Billspeak to spin everything into an ingenious move, when in fact the 2021 contracts were completely against the grain of everything Bill has done previously in free agency. These contracts do not maximize flexibility at all; they're merely huge money dumps that tie up cap space to minimize flexibility. They lost a star player (Jackson) and had almost no money to spend this offseason for a reason.

Hunter Henry (cap hit)
2021 - 6.8
2022 - 15
2023 - 15.5 (or dead cap of 5)

Jonnu Smith
2021 - 5.6
2022 - 13.7
2023 - 14.8
2024 - 15.8 (or dead cap of 3.8)

Nelson Agholor
2021 - 6.9
2022 - 14.8

2021 Total Cap Hit: 19.3
2022 Total Cap Hit: 43.8

It's an open question if Agholor is even good enough to make the roster, or maybe he'll be a #4 type of receiver. Smith isn't good and never has been. Henry is a solid, unspectacular tight end. They're paying 43.8M this year for those three. That's embarassing.
To your point.

 


Sharp is using Cap Hit, which includes the deferred signing bonus being charged this year. Niko is just going off base salary and roster bonus.

Gotta love the Cowboys at 24M invested at RB...lol I don't recall a big RB contract ever working out well for the team.
 
You know it's a cult when they can't even admit Jonnu Smith was a terrible signing. "Just you wait" "rookie QB" etc etc. It's only a "desperation" signing when it's another team. Bill is never wrong.
Yup. Here's Bill to Kraft on Jonnu signing.

 


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