Why is everyone bad mouthing Dont'a Hightower?

[RayClay]

He also had a pass defend.

To be serious though this beating down of Hightower is unfair he is clearly playing out of position at 4-3 WILL and 3-4 WILB look at the top players at those positions, consider their size and athletic ability compared to the 270 lbs. Hightower is playing with.

Patrick Willis – 6’1 240 lbs.
Luke Kuechly – 6’3 235 lbs.
Sean Lee – 6’2 235 lbs.
NaVorro Bowman – 6’0 242 lbs.
Jerod Mayo – 6’1 242 lbs.
Daryl Smith – 6’2 248 lbs.
Derrick Johnson – 6’3 242 lbs.
Brian Cushing – 6’3 249 lbs.
Lawrence Timmons – 6’1 234 lbs.
Bobby Wagner – 6’0 241 lbs.
Daryl Washington – 6’2 238 lbs.

That's right. they were a little on the big slow side with mayo at olb. Now, Hightower needs to take on Mayo's role and they can't just stick in a rookie and a backup who's missed a lot of time. It took Mayo years to direct the D, Fletcher's not going to pick it up in a couple weeks. Best case scenario is getting the fast guys in for sub defenses while we keep trying to be stout on running downs.

 

[Brady6]

That's right. they were a little on the big slow side with mayo at olb. Now, Hightower needs to take on Mayo's role and they can't just stick in a rookie and a backup who's missed a lot of time. It took Mayo years to direct the D, Fletcher's not going to pick it up in a couple weeks. Best case scenario is getting the fast guys in for sub defenses while we keep trying to be stout on running downs.

I think that people are overlooking that Hightower was really coming on towards the end of the season, he had as many tackles for a loss in our 2 playoff games last season as he does all this year combine, he was also very effective as a pass rusher with a pressure every 4.6 attempts compared to the best LB in the league Von Miller who had a pressure every 5.06 attempts. The role Hightower was in was the SAM in a 4-3 and WOLB opposite Ninkovich in the 3-4, in both roles he was playing at or around the line of scrimmage.

The last handful of games Hightower is playing WILB in a 3-4 with this personnel grouping:

SOLB – Ninkovich|LDE – Vellano|NT – Sopoaga |RDE – Jones|WOLB – Jones

SILB – Spikes|WILB – Hightower


So basically Hightower has two UDFA who are best in as 1 gap 4-3 DTs (Vellano, Jones) and two 4-3 DEs (Ninkovich, Jones) in front of him combined with Sopoaga a guy who was picked up for almost nothing because he wasn’t able to beat out Bennie Logan a rookie in Phil. Spikes is a very good SILB but his strength is stopping the run by exploding at the line he is not a good player in space, so this alignment leaves Hightower in a Ray Lewis type sideline-to-sideline role at 270 lbs. I for one am impressed with the fact he is even able to do it, even if you wanted to use Hightower in a 3-4 in the middle he only fits well in the Spikes SILB role. The guy is getting heat for not doing a great job at a job he really isn’t designed to do, it is sort of like people criticizing the way Edelman played nickel cornerback in 2011.

 

[PatsFan2]

He also had a pass defend.

To be serious though this beating down of Hightower is unfair he is clearly playing out of position at 4-3 WILL and 3-4 WILB look at the top players at those positions, consider their size and athletic ability compared to the 270 lbs. Hightower is playing with.

Patrick Willis – 6’1 240 lbs.
Luke Kuechly – 6’3 235 lbs.
Sean Lee – 6’2 235 lbs.
NaVorro Bowman – 6’0 242 lbs.
Jerod Mayo – 6’1 242 lbs.
Daryl Smith – 6’2 248 lbs.
Derrick Johnson – 6’3 242 lbs.
Brian Cushing – 6’3 249 lbs.
Lawrence Timmons – 6’1 234 lbs.
Bobby Wagner – 6’0 241 lbs.
Daryl Washington – 6’2 238 lbs.

So he's playing out of position...what position can he actually play? Dont'a Hightower has shown no pass rushing ability whatsoever. We need something to work with or we are just beating a. :deadhorse:

 

[Huckleberry1]

Also, I think Spikes is nursing an injury, he doesn't look too nimble. People don't take into consideration how much defense is about well matched individuals playing together. Losing Mayo means losing the fastest experienced linebacker as well as the defensive quarterback, something Hightower has had to take on.

He's definitely playing hurt, he's limping all over the field after plays. As I said before it is a real concern because they need him against the run but with both he and Hightower on the field they are going to have major coverage issues going forward.

 

[Brady6]

So he's playing out of position...what position can he actually play? Dont'a Hightower has shown no pass rushing ability whatsoever. We need something to work with or we are just beating a. :deadhorse:

When 100% our defense switches mainly between the 4-3 under, 4-3 over, in the 4-3 under and over they will stand up Ninkovich to give it a 3-4 over or odd look but it plays the same. If you see the diagrams below it outlines the look, Hightower fits best as the SAM/SOLB (S on diagram) in my opinion.

As far as his pass rushing ability that is actually untrue last season he was very effective in the SAM/SOLB as a pass rusher, I highlighted some of the details of his performances in my post yesterday at 09:01 PM.

 

[PatsFan2]

When 100% our defense switches mainly between the 4-3 under, 4-3 over, in the 4-3 under and over they will stand up Ninkovich to give it a 3-4 over or odd look but it plays the same. If you see the diagrams below it outlines the look, Hightower fits best as the SAM/SOLB (S on diagram) in my opinion.

As far as his pass rushing ability that is actually untrue last season he was very effective in the SAM/SOLB as a pass rusher, I highlighted some of the details of his performances in my post yesterday at 09:01 PM.

Excellent diagram knowimg BB plays a player to their strenghths I am just amazed at how he playing a guy like Hightower to what looks like his weakess. Hightower just doesn't look good in space, If his skill set fits the edge BB should just put him there you cannot put a square peg in a round hole and that expalins Hightower right now.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Excellent diagram knowimg BB plays a player to their strenghths I am just amazed at how he playing a guy like Hightower to what looks like his weakess. Hightower just doesn't look good in space, If his skill set fits the edge BB should just put him there you cannot put a square peg in a round hole and that expalins Hightower right now.

Sometimes you don't have any round pegs and you just have to make the best of what you have. In an ideal world, Spikes and Hightower would almost never be on the field together, both because of all of the injuries in the middle of the defense, that's just not an option anymore.

 

[Deus Irae]

Having not read the thread, I'll go with the following, solely as my own take:

Hightower may, or may not, be capable of really playing at the NFL level. However, one thing seems pretty clear: Hightower is a 3-4 OLB, and not a 4-3 LB of any kind. By playing him in a role that doesn't suit him, the Patriots are putting him in a position to fail, and the fans are choosing to blame him rather than the team.

The Patriots have a 3-4 LB corps, a 3-4 NT who can play 4-3 DT, and no 3-4 DEs. With Jones being young and a budding talent but not really cut out for the 3-4 DE position as has historically been played by the Patriots, and with Hightower coming in the same draft class as Jones, this issue seems likely to be around for another couple of years.

 

[TonyTucker]

I never understood the pick to begin with, how many big run stuffing linebackers did they need?

 

[Brady6]

Excellent diagram knowimg BB plays a player to their strenghths I am just amazed at how he playing a guy like Hightower to what looks like his weakess. Hightower just doesn't look good in space, If his skill set fits the edge BB should just put him there you cannot put a square peg in a round hole and that expalins Hightower right now.

I think it comes down to even playing out of position Hightower being better than the other options we have currently.

How it worked was actually brilliant but it relied heavily on Wilfork and Mayo as the key pieces and this season we literally have been met with worst case scenario, but this is the intent at full health:

2-gap DE – Jones takes on the LT
2-gap DT – Wilfork takes on the LG and OC.
1-gap DT – Kelly takes on the RG.
1-gap DE – Ninkovich takes on the RT

Sam – Hightower takes on TE.
Mike – Spikes takes on any lead blocker (TE/FB)
Mayo – Will is freelancing able to clean up sideline-to-sideline.

So Hightower is at a double disadvantage right now, first because of the obvious reason that he is not a Will linebacker ideally so playing sideline to sideline is not something he has the athletic ability for and second because there is not a defensive on this team capable of taking on 2 offensive linemen on a consistent basis so that leaves him with a blocker that he has to face 1on1 and therefore he is not freed up to make the tackle.

I think people last season confused him playing some in the role Spikes is in as him being a MLB and don’t understand why he cannot do the same thing to replace Mayo, but there is a big difference between being assigned a gap like Spikes position and being the free or should be free player tasked with cleaning up and making the most tackles of any linebacker by a significant amount.

 

[Brady6]

Having not read the thread, I'll go with the following, solely as my own take:

Hightower may, or may not, be capable of really playing at the NFL level. However, one thing seems pretty clear: Hightower is a 3-4 OLB, and not a 4-3 LB of any kind. By playing him in a role that doesn't suit him, the Patriots are putting him in a position to fail, and the fans are choosing to blame him rather than the team.

The Patriots have a 3-4 LB corps, a 3-4 NT who can play 4-3 DT, and no 3-4 DEs. With Jones being young and a budding talent but not really cut out for the 3-4 DE position as has historically been played by the Patriots, and with Hightower coming in the same draft class as Jones, this issue seems likely to be around for another couple of years.

I agree with us having a lot of mismatched pieces, but I disagree that Hightower cannot play in a 4-3. Hightower cannot play Will in a 4-3 well not that well anyway; I think Hightower is an ideal Sam and would also be solid at the Mike. The problem is Hightower is not a sideline-to-sideline player he is a player who either needs to be at the Sam as a 9-Tech or if he is stacked like Spikes he needs to be assigned gap containment. Trying to have him run around the field is not a good fit for his talents at all, I actually thought he was beginning to play really well at the end of last season, the Mayo injury unfortunately hurt his development this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with us having a lot of mismatched pieces, but I disagree that Hightower cannot play in a 4-3. Hightower cannot play Will in a 4-3 well not that well anyway; I think Hightower is an ideal Sam and would also be solid at the Mike. The problem is Hightower is not a sideline-to-sideline player he is a player who either needs to be at the Sam as a 9-Tech or if he is stacked like Spikes he needs to be assigned gap containment. Trying to have him run around the field is not a good fit for his talents at all, I actually thought he was beginning to play really well at the end of last season, the Mayo injury unfortunately hurt his development this season.

The problem is that Hightower is a 270 pound LB who needs to be in a 3-4 system, because he's not good in the 4-3. It's not going to matter where, or how, you play him.

 

[Sicilian]

The problem is that Hightower is a 270 pound LB who needs to be in a 3-4 system, because he's not good in the 4-3. It's not going to matter where, or how, you play him.

I think this implies a gross oversimplification of 3-4 versus 4-3.

 

[Brady6]

The problem is that Hightower is a 270 pound LB who needs to be in a 3-4 system, because he's not good in the 4-3. It's not going to matter where, or how, you play him.

Essentially I agree, when I say 43 it is our hybrid 43 which means the SAM has basically the same responsibilities as a 3-4 OLB in a 9-Tech alignment.

In our 43 I think Hightower could be excellent at the SAM and also solid at MIKE, he isn't going to fit as a WILL ever, he doesn't have the athletic ability.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think this implies a gross oversimplification of 3-4 versus 4-3.

I think it simply summarizes an issue, and it does so more than adequately. We shouldn't have to go into explicit detail every time we have a 3-4 v. 4-3 discussion. If you take the basic 4-3, Hightower doesn't have a position. If you take the basic 3-4, Hightower fits fine.

Now, can you jury rig a position for him, and limit yourself in the process? Sure, and that's what they have to do. However, that's precisely the opposite of what this team normally likes, since this is a team that thrives on adaptability.

By drafting Spikes/Hightower/Jones as players, rather than searching for compatible components for a defensive system, the team has essentially forced itself into a position where it can't really play either 4-3 or 3-4 as a straight up system. Some of that is covered up by playing a lot of nickel/dime, but that requires that either Spikes or Hightower be on the bench for much of the game.

 

[Sicilian]

I think it simply summarizes an issue, and it does so more than adequately. We shouldn't have to go into explicit detail every time we have a 3-4 v. 4-3 discussion.

Explicit detail no, but all 4-3's are not run exactly the same, thus saying Hightower NEEDS a 3-4 system is overly generalized IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Explicit detail no, but all 4-3's are not run exactly the same, thus saying Hightower NEEDS a 3-4 system is overly generalized IMO.

Where are all the 4-3 teams that are loaded with starters who are 270 pound linebackers that can't cover?

 

[Sicilian]

Where are all the 4-3 teams that are loaded with starters who are 270 pound linebackers that can't cover?

For most 4-3's you require lighter LB's. For the hybrid 4-3 the Pats were running earlier in the year (which was quite successful) Hightower seemed to have a perfectly good role.

You're also assuming he'll never get better at anything he's doing. LB's in Belichick defenses typically take longer to settle in. Even Mayo had a "down" Sophomore year while he took on more responsibility.

You can't put a guy like Hightower in a Brian Urlacher position, no. But to say there is no defense which has four hands on the ground in which Hightower has a successful role is false. Again, my opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

For most 4-3's you require lighter LB's. For the hybrid 4-3 the Pats were running earlier in the year (which was quite successful) Hightower seemed to have a perfectly good role.

First, they weren't running a true 4-3, which is the point. They were forced into a modified 4-3. Second I'm not sure his play was anywhere near perfectly good. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that it wasn't.

You're also assuming he'll never get better at anything he's doing. LB's in Belichick defenses typically take longer to settle in. Even Mayo had a "down" Sophomore year while he took on more responsibility.

No, I'm understanding that he's a bad fit for a 4-3 system, because he's limited in which versions he can handle, and that necessarily limits the entire defense if he's going to play. This wouldn't matter if he were a low round pick, or a UDFA, because he could be used as a spot player without that being any problem. He was not a low round pick or UDFA, though. He was a first round pick, and he needs to be on the field getting the job done.

You can't put a guy like Hightower in a Brian Urlacher position, no. But to say there is no defense which has four hands on the ground in which Hightower has a successful role is false. Again, my opinion.

You can't play him as a linebacker in a true 4-3, because he doesn't get it done. Now, if you want to put him in at DE and see if he can adapt to that, feel free. That defeats the purpose of having him as a linebacker, though.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Having not read the thread, I'll go with the following, solely as my own take:

Hightower may, or may not, be capable of really playing at the NFL level. However, one thing seems pretty clear: Hightower is a 3-4 OLB, and not a 4-3 LB of any kind. By playing him in a role that doesn't suit him, the Patriots are putting him in a position to fail, and the fans are choosing to blame him rather than the team.

The Patriots have a 3-4 LB corps, a 3-4 NT who can play 4-3 DT, and no 3-4 DEs. With Jones being young and a budding talent but not really cut out for the 3-4 DE position as has historically been played by the Patriots, and with Hightower coming in the same draft class as Jones, this issue seems likely to be around for another couple of years.

Unless you enjoy Lavonte David vs. Hightower debates, you don't need to read the pages before you chimed in.