Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?

[Wozzy]

What I'm trying to say it that's what the patriots mindset was when drafting Mac.. as Weiss went on to say they liked him because he reminded them if Brady, and they would not have to alter thier offensive system. We know now what Mac and Zapp both are. The next guy they will have too go based on his talents and not this system that only works for the GOAT that he adopted. The system only works when you have the guys. They don't!

They need a QB, Stroud isn’t struggling here, neither is Burrow or Herbert.

 

[Real fan 02]

They need a QB, Stroud isn’t struggling here, neither is Burrow or Herbert.

Agreed. Just making a point that when a team doesn't want to change thier thinking as it has brought them success they get left behind. That's what's happening with the team now. Bad QB play. Tailor the offense to the strength of the QB not the system.. Baltimore did it and it looks just fine to me.

 

[amfootball]

What I'm trying to say it that's what the patriots mindset was when drafting Mac.. as Weiss went on to say they liked him because he reminded them if Brady, and they would not have to alter thier offensive system. We know now what Mac and Zapp both are. The next guy they will have too go based on his talents and not this system that only works for the GOAT that he adopted. The system only works when you have the guys. They don't!

I have heard this as well and it really irks me. There is only one TFB. The position has changed and offenses need to have an athletic, dynamic QB in today's league. This is why I want Bill and his guys gone. We need to turn the page and get up to speed with today's league.

 

[Real fan 02]

I have heard this as well and it really irks me. There is only one TFB. The position has changed and offenses need to have an athletic, dynamic QB in today's league. This is why I want Bill and his guys gone. We need to turn the page and get up to speed with today's league.

Correct! Athletes at the QB position. That's what is all about in the NFL. RK gave BB so much authority and autonomy. Having the GOAT allowed him to experiment offensively. I sense next season we'll see a vastly different approach from the organization.

 

[Steve102]

Chris Simms has said during his only year in the front office in 2012 that Bill purposely passed on the more talented players because a less talented player is more likely to listen to his message.

Damien Woody has also said during his ESPN gig that Bill didn’t care if a draft pick didn’t work out as he’d find somebody else.

I think Simms is incorrect in his wording but correct in theory. I think Bill passes on guys who may not be coachable in his opinion and takes the guy who's more coachable. Rare is the guy who wants to be coached and is great. The league is full of knuckleheads who only use half of what's given them: talent and brains. I think that's why Bill places such emphasis on team captains and leaders coming out of college; they know what it takes most of the time. The moment that guys become an issue in the locker room, stop following the plan, or, most glaringly last year, go off the reservation, they are gone.

 

[Wozzy]

Agreed. Just making a point that when a team doesn't want to change thier thinking as it has brought them success they get left behind. That's what's happening with the team now. Bad QB play. Tailor the offense to the strength of the QB not the system.. Baltimore did it and it looks just fine to me.

BB definitely has to go back to not caring if his players “have fun.” It all seemed to start turning at that moment, when he started caring if players had fun and when he said he only wanted to coach players he liked.

That shouldn’t factor into it at all, winning is fun. This is professional football. Nobody liked Charles Haley, he was a bipolar mess, but his teammates were happy to have him on gameday.

 

[Real fan 02]

BB definitely has to go back to not caring if his players “have fun.” It all seemed to start turning at that moment, when he started caring if players had fun and when he said he only wanted to coach players he liked.

That shouldn’t factor into it at all, winning is fun. This is professional football. Nobody liked Charles Haley, he was a bipolar mess, but his teammates were happy to have him on gameday.

Yes, he has 5 decades invested in the NFL he should not care if they have fun. But he's cut from there Parcells cloth. It's just in him. Alot easier to be tough when you have the guys and the teams winning. Guys can deal with it. It's a matter of time before the guys on defense loose it.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I think it was Albert Breer who said that in 2018, Josh McDaniels really lobbied Belichick to take Lamar Jackson because he felt he was going to be special. Belichick ultimately kiboshed the idea because Jackson didn't fit their system and it would be difficult to go from Brady to Jackson.

I think that is indicative of Belichick's mindset. He is set in his ways and unwilling to change his system for the talent that is coming out of the draft these days and is more focused on players he feels will fit his system. The problem I think is that there isn't a lot of talent coming out college these days that are protypical players for the Patriots' system. I don't think it is the only reason or possibly even the main reason Belichick has been bad at the draft, but it is probably a big contributing factor.

With the Jackson thing, he would have sat for at least a year or two behind Brady and it would have given the Patriots time to start to transform the offense to more suited for Jackson's skills. If Belichick believed McDaniels' evaluation of Jackson, that is what you do. I mean Sony Michel was a key contributor to the Super Bowl run that year, but he was just a RB and replaceable.

"I only want to coach guys I like" - BB

And he seems to want to overthink high draft choices like he's done in the past. Zig when the rest of the league zags. A draft has a ton of TE talent? Don't draft a TE. A draft has a lot of WR talent? Don't take one until 6th round. Trading down instead of standing pat or standing pat instead of trading up. Drafting guys who nail the interview or have one outstanding trait and not taking into account other factors (mainly talking about Harry and Thornton). Drafting guys who dropped due to extracurricular things when the strong locker room that used to keep those guys more or less in line doesn't exist. Things like that.

Plus the reports that he doesn't use modern analytics and that he's surrounded himself with people who don't really challenge him (this happens a lot...not just in football but other professions as well). I know BB and others have said people challenge him but I don't buy it.

Chris Simms has said during his only year in the front office in 2012 that Bill purposely passed on the more talented players because a less talented player is more likely to listen to his message.

Damien Woody has also said during his ESPN gig that Bill didn’t care if a draft pick didn’t work out as he’d find somebody else.

I think these guys are right. BB seeks players that he believes he can get along with and passes on bigger/faster/stronger guys.
I am sure that coaching a team full of immature divas is a pain in the arse but look at all the "busts" this team has drafted.

 

[Boomer B]

BB definitely has to go back to not caring if his players “have fun.” It all seemed to start turning at that moment, when he started caring if players had fun and when he said he only wanted to coach players he liked.

That shouldn’t factor into it at all, winning is fun. This is professional football. Nobody liked Charles Haley, he was a bipolar mess, but his teammates were happy to have him on gameday.

This isn’t the 1950’s. There’s free agency and players have options. No one is coming to the Pats anymore to win with Tom Brady. We either over pay for mediocre free agents now or watch the top talent play elsewhere.

So you may say it doesn’t matter if they have fun, but that only works when you’re winning. Ryan Clark on TV today said that guys who came from the Pats organization were surprised when the coaches talked to you and asked about family. They told him Belichick would walk by them in the hall and not even acknowledge their existence. The old grunt and snort curmudgeon only works if you win. When you don’t you’re just another *******.

 

[Wozzy]

This isn’t the 1950’s. There’s free agency and players have options. No one is coming to the Pats anymore to win with Tom Brady. We either over pay for mediocre free agents now or watch the top talent play elsewhere.

So you may say it doesn’t matter if they have fun, but that only works when you’re winning. Ryan Clark on TV today said that guys who came from the Pats organization were surprised when the coaches talked to you and asked about family. They told him Belichick would walk by them in the hall and not even acknowledge their existence. The old grunt and snort curmudgeon only works if you win. When you don’t you’re just another *******.

Mostly garbage, players 99% of the time follow the money.

They need to find a QB, preferably not one who whines, takes cheap shots at opponents when they’re on the ground, blames others and who his teammates like and want to win and play hard for.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Ryan Clark on TV today said that guys who came from the Pats organization were surprised when the coaches talked to you and asked about family. They told him Belichick would walk by them in the hall and not even acknowledge their existence. The old grunt and snort curmudgeon only works if you win. When you don’t you’re just another *******.

I saw that yesterday as well. This has been echoed by other former players that Bill will just walk by them.

 

[Boomer B]

Mostly garbage, players 99% of the time follow the money.

They need to find a QB, preferably not one who whines, takes cheap shots at opponents when they’re on the ground, blames others and who his teammates like and want to win and play hard for.

Absolute garbage, they need a lot more than a new QB.

They need a new QB, WRs, o-line upgrade, better special teams, better drafts, coaches…

 

[Wozzy]

Absolute garbage, they need a lot more than a new QB.

They need a new QB, WRs, o-line upgrade, better special teams, better drafts, coaches…

Sure… Brady won for two decades, through vast personnel and coaching changes, Mahomes won with and without Tyreek… but this team needs a new everything. Sounds legit…

 

[Boomer B]

I saw that yesterday as well. This has been echoed by other former players that Bill will just walk by them.

On a basic human level that’s just sad. It’s not hard to be a decent person.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think these guys are right. BB seeks players that he believes he can get along with and passes on bigger/faster/stronger guys.
I am sure that coaching a team full of immature divas is a pain in the arse but look at all the "busts" this team has drafted.

Bill passes on players who are questionable teammates, not a system fit or culture fit. Tom Landry said it best. You can't teach stupid. So when he says, "players he likes" I think fans are taking that too literally.

Athleticism is one component to a successful NFL career and a successful NFL team. You can stack a roster of 1st and 2nd rd picks but if they can't execute in the system and the culture sucks the team will also suck.

Bill is entering his final days as HC/GM because he has failed miserably recently on finding players who are talented AND can play in his system.

 

[Boomer B]

Sure… Brady won for two decades, through vast personnel and coaching changes, Mahomes won with and without Tyreek… but this team needs a new everything. Sounds legit…

Really?

So Brady didn’t have talent around him when he won? Gronk, Edelman, White, Moss, Welker, Mankins, Branch, Brown, Dillon, Thuney, Light….

Mahomes doesn’t have talent? Kelce is a 1st ballet hall of famer. He’s got a good line and a great D.

Yes, an all time great QB will elevate talent, but you don’t get to Super Bowls without talent surrounding them. And you think magically another all time great QB is easy to get? There’s teams that go through decades without finding one.

 

[archstanton543]

Bill passes on players who are questionable teammates, not a system fit or culture fit. Tom Landry said it best. You can't teach stupid. So when he says, "players he likes" I think fans are taking that too literally.

Athleticism is one component to a successful NFL career and a successful NFL team. You can stack a roster of 1st and 2nd rd picks but if they can't execute in the system and the culture sucks the team will also suck.

Bill is entering his final days as HC/GM because he has failed miserably recently on finding players who are talented AND can play in his system.

Sometimes you need a guy with a 50 cent head and a million dollar arm (or legs, or hands). It's nice when you can find guys with million dollar heads and arms but they're rare.

 

[Wozzy]

Really?

So Brady didn’t have talent around him when he won? Gronk, Edelman, White, Moss, Welker, Mankins, Branch, Brown, Dillon, Thuney, Light….

Mahomes doesn’t have talent? Kelce is a 1st ballet hall of famer. He’s got a good line and a great D.

Yes, an all time great QB will elevate talent, but you don’t get to Super Bowls without talent surrounding them. And you think magically another all time great QB is easy to get? There’s teams that go through decades without finding one.

We’ve had a top five defense the last few years, we’ve had offensive talent. Our QB has sucked and still does.

Good players don’t cease being good and need replacing just because the QB sucks. Any great QB right now would compete with this roster.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sometimes you need a guy with a 50 cent head and a million dollar arm (or legs, or hands). It's nice when you can find guys with million dollar heads and arms but they're rare.

I don't agree at all.

 

[archstanton543]

I don't agree at all.

I don't agree with you disagreeing.