Why doesn't AVP incorporate motion into his West Coast Offense?

[Water Boy]

I've heard this a few times now. I believe Cleveland under AVP used close to if not the the fewest amount of motion in the league and I heard it was one of the reasons Cleveland let him go.

Are there any drawbacks to incorporating motion? Wouldn't it make sense to have players like Pop and TT get a running start. I would think it would be useful in an outside zone run scheme as well.

 

[Zuma]

I’ve read the same at multiple places the past few months about AVP’s offense lacking motion. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want motion…it’s a good way to see if the defense is in zone or man. But maybe the thought is it gives the defense an idea what the offense is trying to do…IDK

 

[borg]

AVP is a checkers guy

 

[borg]

Prefers pre-Alonzo Stagg era scheming

 

[Ring 6]

I’ve read the same at multiple places the past few months about AVP’s offense lacking motion. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want motion…it’s a good way to see if the defense is in zone or man. But maybe the thought is it gives the defense an idea what the offense is trying to do…IDK

I don’t understand either. I would guess it’s that he feels he can use motion to create an advantage when he wants to but doesn’t want overuse it to diminish the value.
Like a play action pass. If you do 5 a game you can catch them off guard. If you do 35 it loses its value.
I’m not sure what that advantage he perceives is, but i would guess he perceives one.

 

[Pape]

two or three disadvantages

timing - between the back / wr / qb... if its off, then things can blow up, either with a fumble or penalty

blocking schemes - the line schemes they are transition to are new... might want to get that down in order to avoid penalties before incorporating motion

quality of players - with his speed, TT is a natural for something like the jet sweep... but thats assuming he gets the timing etc down

avp did not use motion in Cleveland... part of that might have been because of the qb... they had more than a few issues with the Masseuse regarding injuries and suspensions...

i hope he does incorporate it into the offense... why run the west coast if you dont take advantage of what is one of its strengths

 

[Jim Beankie]

AVP is making you think he's not into motion...

That's how I'd like to think of it because not incorporating it is a step backwards at this point.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

I think people seem to forget that you have to have people in positions that can recognize pre-snap formations, coverages, assignments, etc. You already have to have a C that can call out blocking assignments (needed for all offenses if not most if I'm not mistaken- I should know this having played college ball...things were so different back then though so don't kill me =D ...). The QB needs to recognize what the D does or doesn't do and then on top of it make said adjustments.....we as pats fans tend to forget we had one of the best if not the best to do all this and not be wrong most of the time...Though I do agree...we need more of it, if not for the excitement (I think plays involving motion are so much more interesting.....).

Motion can be so many different things....from trying to get the D to tip their hand as to what they're doing to exposing any stunts/blitzes, to confuse them as to what WE are doing play-wise. Adds a cerebral part to the game and the players need to be able to process things so we can do this.

 

[jmt57]

I don’t understand either. I would guess it’s that he feels he can use motion to create an advantage when he wants to but doesn’t want overuse it to diminish the value.
Like a play action pass. If you do 5 a game you can catch them off guard. If you do 35 it loses its value.
I’m not sure what that advantage he perceives is, but i would guess he perceives one.

Welcome back.

 

[Ring 6]

Welcome back.

Thanks. We’ll see how it goes.

 

[Triumph]

Film Review: How Will the Patriots Offense Look Under New Offensive Coordinator Alex Van Pelt?

 

[Huckleberry1]

The question for me is whether Van Pelt was the reason for a lack of motion, or did Stefanski want to call plays that didn’t require much motion?

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

AVP is a checkers guy

Haha, that’s not encouraging

 

[State]

Motion makes the defense have to respond. Makes it more difficult for them. They start thinking instead of reacting.

Klint Kubiak, the new OC for the Saints, has installed a Rams- and 49ers-type offense with outside zone runs and a lot of presnap motion.

Saints players are impressed.

 

[archstanton543]

Why? Because he's not that innovative of a OC.

He's got an easy system for a new QB to cut his teeth in but that's about it.

 

[Ross12]

One thing that occurred to me is conditioning. If you're too heavy with motion, that's a lot of extra running around for your WRs added on to the actual routes that they are going out to run. This might mean they will get tired earlier in the game.

Envision a play where you have your top guy scream across the backfield one way, then the other, and then the ball is snapped and the defense was ready for it and it results in an incomplete pass. Now you're on 2nd and 10 but your top player is still a bit tired and isn't able to be full-go on his next route. Seems like there are potential downsides in that scenario.

 

[Steve102]

Motion makes the defense have to respond. Makes it more difficult for them. They start thinking instead of reacting.

I am a big fan of motion for this exact reason. Does the motion mean a crack back block is coming? Are they running to motion? Away from motion? When a certain player motions, does that mean X play is coming? Do DBs have to hand off the motioning player? Does this change the strength? Is it all BS?

I love using motion. Bill did it on defense with his grazing cattle BS on the D line and it made a mess on opposing OLs. Unless you're bigger and badder than everyone else and can just impose your will, motion is great.

Did I mention I love motion? 'Cause I do.

 

[Clonamery]

One thing that occurred to me is conditioning. If you're too heavy with motion, that's a lot of extra running around for your WRs added on to the actual routes that they are going out to run. This might mean they will get tired earlier in the game.

Envision a play where you have your top guy scream across the backfield one way, then the other, and then the ball is snapped and the defense was ready for it and it results in an incomplete pass. Now you're on 2nd and 10 but your top player is still a bit tired and isn't able to be full-go on his next route. Seems like there are potential downsides in that scenario.

You funny.

 

[Ross12]

You funny.

I was being serious... obviously using motion once or twice has no impact but if you're using it all game long it would have to wear you down a little more than if you weren't using it at all, right?

 

[PatsFan2]

Motion makes the defense have to respond. Makes it more difficult for them. They start thinking instead of reacting.

Klint Kubiak, the new OC for the Saints, has installed a Rams- and 49ers-type offense with outside zone runs and a lot of presnap motion.

Saints players are impressed.

For the first time in a while the Saints don't seem so stacked @ WR.