What if Mac Jones and Jaylen Waddle are available at 15?

[upstater1]

I'm learning a lot from this thread. The QBs slated to go fast are the equivalent of 3rd rounders. Waddle is not a starting receiver in the NFL.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I have a feeling you're going to be very disappointed. These quarterbacks are way overrated.
Mac Jones is a late first, early second quarterback. Trey Lance is a third-round development project. A Fields is a late first-rounder.

Why is Jones late first while Lance is third rd. grade ?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Why is Jones late first while Lance is third rd. grade ?

More importantly: what does that actually mean?

 

[RServant]

We drafted a wr the year before he bolted.
We also signed a slew of them including AB and traded for his wr of choice, Sanu.

 

[BTTA]

I have a feeling you're going to be very disappointed. These quarterbacks are way overrated.
Mac Jones is a late first, early second quarterback. Trey Lance is a third-round development project. A Fields is a late first-rounder.

I don't know which is which, but history has shown us that only one or two of these top five will end up being worth a top 10 draft position.

I think the Pats are perfectly situated at 15. Use it on BPA, and the same in the second round. Then grab a couple of QB's later and let competition sort it out.

 

[Ring 6]

I have a feeling you're going to be very disappointed. These quarterbacks are way overrated.
Mac Jones is a late first, early second quarterback. Trey Lance is a third-round development project. A Fields is a late first-rounder.

Based upon what?

 

[Taxed in Maine]

Based upon what?

Talent and experience.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

Why is Jones late first while Lance is third rd. grade ?

Lance is a great athlete with one season of experience at a much lower level. He is a development project.

 

[upstater1]

I don't know which is which, but history has shown us that only one or two of these top five will end up being worth a top 10 draft position.

I think the Pats are perfectly situated at 15. Use it on BPA, and the same in the second round. Then grab a couple of QB's later and let competition sort it out.

I don't have a lot of confidence in this approach.

Why?

Because of Jarrett Stidham, Danny Etling, Jacoby Brisset, Ryan Mallet, Zac Robinson, Kevin O'Connell, Matt Cassel, Kliff Klingsbury, Rohan Davey.

9 QBs taken by the Patriots post-2nd round after they landed Brady, and not a one of them ever became a regular starter in the NFL for more than 2 years.

ZERO for 9.

I grant you there are a lot of 1st rounds busts at QB in the NFL, but you have to spin that wheel. Can't be avoided. The chances of finding a mid-round QB seem minimal at best, so much so that a 50% 1st round hit rate looks really really good.

Last 5 years, the NFL is 11 for 17 in terms of hitting on QBs in the first round, and that's with me considering Darnold and Wentz as QB busts.

Those odds are tremendous compared to what happens later.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Lance is a great athlete with one season of experience at a much lower level.

As i mentioned in another thread i understand the competition argument, use it sometimes but there can be made points against it too. Why are QB's from programms with better competition like OSU not succesfull in NFL ? If you redshirt Lance I think he has all the tools to be a good NFL QB. That's first round value to me for the most important position

He is a development project.

A lot of guys in this draft are i think. Many guys had one good season opted out so it's more uncertaincy than usual I guess. Slater, Farley for example.

 

[upstater1]

As i mentioned in another thread i understand the competition argument, use it sometimes but there can be made points against it too. Why are QB's from programms with better competition like OSU not succesfull in NFL ? If you redshirt Lance I think he has all the tools to be a good NFL QB. That's first round value to me for the most important position

A lot of guys in this draft are i think. Many guys had one good season opted out so it's more uncertaincy than usual I guess. Slater, Farley for example.

I think this stuff about OSU QBs is overblown.

It seems to be based on Haskins.

The other OSU QBs were not considered to be top talents. Cardale Jones was not considered one. Braxton Miller and Terrelle Pryor were considered WRs and they mainly played the option in college.

So this whole OSU makes QB busts theory is based off of one QB, Haskins. Makes no sense to me.

It's like teams should have avoided Baker Mayfield because Sam Bradford was a bust, and Landry Jones and Josh Heupel didn't make it in the NFL either. So avoid Kyler Murray too!

And while you're at it, avoid Joe Burrow because Jamarcus Russell.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I think this stuff about OSU QBs is overblown.

It seems to be based on Haskins.

The other OSU QBs were not considered to be top talents. Cardale Jones was not considered one. Braxton Miller and Terrelle Pryor were considered WRs and they mainly played the option in college.

So this whole OSU makes QB busts theory is based off of one QB, Haskins. Makes no sense to me.

It's like teams should have avoided Baker Mayfield because Sam Bradford was a bust, and Landry Jones and Josh Heupel didn't make it in the NFL either. So avoid Kyler Murray too!

And while you're at it, avoid Joe Burrow because Jamarcus Russell.

There are always other examples I agree..I just don't like to see Lance gets roasted to due low level of competition...There are few other QB's who succeeded without having best college competition..Lance is young and with not much starting experience already had lots of responsibilities in their offense with calling protection etc..Dude has the effort and character i'd like to see

 

[Ring 6]

Talent and experience.

All the analysts disagree with you.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

All the analysts disagree with you.

Because QBs are over rated in general. Unfortunately it's a supply/ demand issue. Not a talent issue.

Three years from now there are going to be a lot of disappointed people. This is not going to be the QB class of 1983.

 

[Ring 6]

I think this stuff about OSU QBs is overblown.

It seems to be based on Haskins.

The other OSU QBs were not considered to be top talents. Cardale Jones was not considered one. Braxton Miller and Terrelle Pryor were considered WRs and they mainly played the option in college.

So this whole OSU makes QB busts theory is based off of one QB, Haskins. Makes no sense to me.

It's like teams should have avoided Baker Mayfield because Sam Bradford was a bust, and Landry Jones and Josh Heupel didn't make it in the NFL either. So avoid Kyler Murray too!

And while you're at it, avoid Joe Burrow because Jamarcus Russell.

So it’s not a matter of the system creates bad QBs, it’s a matter of whether the system causes them to be overrated. The biggest difference from playing college qb to playing nfl qb is that if you come from a top program your receivers are beating defenders left and right and you never make too many challenged throws.
That doesn’t mean you aren’t good but it means weaknesses are much more easily hidden in results.
Ohio State seems to stick out because they have had QBs test it up who weren’t NFL caliber. Smith, prior, Haskins and even Jones looked like world beaters because of the talent around them.
It’s the same in any program, but Ohio State has a record of nonNFL QBs looking just as good or better than legit nfl prospects at other schools.

 

[Ring 6]

Because QBs are over rated in general. Unfortunately it's a supply/ demand issue. Not a talent issue.

Three years from now there are going to be a lot of disappointed people. This is not going to be the QB class of 1983.

No offense but im going with the professionals who evaluate them for a living over your general impression of QB drafting.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

No offense but im going with the professionals who evaluate them for a living over your general impression of QB drafting.

Do whatever you want, it's my opinion.
We'll know in three years......

 

[upstater1]

So it’s not a matter of the system creates bad QBs, it’s a matter of whether the system causes them to be overrated. The biggest difference from playing college qb to playing nfl qb is that if you come from a top program your receivers are beating defenders left and right and you never make too many challenged throws.
That doesn’t mean you aren’t good but it means weaknesses are much more easily hidden in results.
Ohio State seems to stick out because they have had QBs test it up who weren’t NFL caliber. Smith, prior, Haskins and even Jones looked like world beaters because of the talent around them.
It’s the same in any program, but Ohio State has a record of nonNFL QBs looking just as good or better than legit nfl prospects at other schools.

Are we really going back as far as Troy Smith? The current coaching staff was nowhere around back then. Most college coaches are not really developing their QBs for the NFL. They have a limited time with them in spring, and then practices start up in August just before the first game.

If we're going back to 5th rounder Troy Smith, I might point out the Patriots drafted Rohan Davey from LSU in the 4th round.

Both these facts are totally irrelevant to evaluating Fields.

I bet I can find a ton of examples of overrated QBs coming out of football factories like Clemson (Charlie Whitehurst), USC (Matt Leinhart), Florida (Tebow), Florida State (Winston), etc. It's not just LSU and OSU.

I can't see why anyone would hold Cardale Jones against OSU.

At OSU, the guy was 4th on the depth chart. He wasn't drafted highly in the NFL. No one really expected anything of him.

 

[Ring 6]

Are we really going back as far as Troy Smith? The current coaching staff was nowhere around back then. Most college coaches are not really developing their QBs for the NFL. They have a limited time with them in spring, and then practices start up in August just before the first game.

If we're going back to 5th rounder Troy Smith, I might point out the Patriots drafted Rohan Davey from LSU in the 4th round.

Both these facts are totally irrelevant to evaluating Fields.

I bet I can find a ton of examples of overrated QBs coming out of football factories like Clemson (Charlie Whitehurst), USC (Matt Leinhart), Florida (Tebow), Florida State (Winston), etc. It's not just LSU and OSU.

I can't see why anyone would hold Cardale Jones against OSU.

At OSU, the guy was 4th on the depth chart. He wasn't drafted highly in the NFL. No one really expected anything of him.

Im simply stating why the perception is there.

 

[yukon cornelius]

All the analysts disagree with you.

they disagree that he's a developmental project?

i don't think so......most believe he will go high in the first, but i haven't seen any/many that believe he steps into a starting role, that he needs a year, at least, to develop......

every QB not named lawrence would benefit from a redshirt year.....pretty much every QB in this draft is a 'developmental project'