Patriots Pregame Thread We're on to Cincinnati

[Hammer of Thor]

Humor me for a second.... If say Baramore sacks Flacco and lands him on his shoulder and JumpBallJoe can't continue. Who's their next man in line at QB? Browning? WTF is that guy anyways? Never heard of him. Anything to be concerned about? Sometimes backups end up playing better than the starters (re: Foles.... ugh).

Browning was playing so well for them after Burrow got injured that they decided to trade for JumpBallJoe and bench Browning.

 

[BobDigital]

So Bengals... No Burrow, No Chase, No Hendrickson, No Taylor-Britt.... Jesus.

Well, I expected the Patriots to win, but now don't they absolutely have to? I mean if they lose this what do you even say?

 

[slash83]

So Bengals... No Burrow, No Chase, No Hendrickson, No Taylor-Britt.... Jesus.

Well, I expected the Patriots to win, but now don't they absolutely have to? I mean if they lose this what do you even say?

Frauds if they do

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Well Vrabel, Cowden, Stretch, Wolf and Highsmith did turn over like half of the roster. But it does show what solid coaching/personnel can do in a season or two.

Exactly IF they have the QB.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Exactly IF they have the QB.

If you take over the Panthers, don't you have to believe you can build around Ward with good coaching and a revamped roster? Otherwise WTF are you taking that job for?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Frauds if they do

So in your eyes they are still on probation and can't have a clunker and still be considered a very good team?

 

[BobDigital]

I am going to post about Kyle Williams. Feel free to dislike as it won't be completely positive.

Does anyone remember that time Brady said to Galloway 'It's not that F**king complicated'? Fans seemed to agree. He was here for 10+ weeks at that point i think and not getting it. This signing we were all hyped about just didn't work out cause he couldn't play in this system.

Williams has had a problem with this most of the year. He had a huge misread last game on a relatively straight forward read on a pass. I know he's a rookie so is in a different situation than Galloway, and others who simply couldn't figure out the offense... but at some point you just worry, will he ever get it? It's been months of this and he is still making mistakes on very easy reads. Some not as obvious, but even easier ones.

Yes you can pull out examples of his speed and getting off the line clean. We know he can do that. That's why we drafted him cause we know he has that talent. We know he has the talent to play in this league, but can he run in this system or not? His ability to beat his guy off the line and burn him if he gets behind him has nothing to do with his ability to be in the right spot at the right time. They are completely different problems. And I am getting kind of tired seeing them brought up in his defense. Cause that is not the problem.

As much as many Pats fans love this system it does have the occasional by product of some WRs who would be otherwise good just never seeming to be able to get it for one reason or another. I know people will bring up Boutte, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't so much the system as he needed to fill out his skill set. Williams has the skill set already, that much is clear. You get the ball in his hands and he can make things happen. His TD catch was so fun to watch and showed a hint of what could be. But the impressive part of that play was not his route. He ran basically a crosser in a straight line. Not really so much a read but pure talent and a good pass.

My expectations for this team have moved as the year has gone on. At first it was play off experience. Then a decent play off run. Now I am not expecting more but hoping for it as it seems possible. But the fact is when i look at this team up and down the roster, they don't have the ability to win it all as they stand today IMO.

Drake is great, I think ther D is good and will keep them in it vs most anyone no matter what DVOA or other tools say. But the fact is when the rubber meets the road and you look at it objectively they are lacking some talent compared to other top teams. Boutte is pretty good. Henry is okay. Hollins is a solid contributor. But Diggs as good as he is only plays 50% of the snaps. Even if that goes up in the post season it won't be enough. Their OL is hopefully going to improve more before crunch time, but it is still a weakness.

This teams vs good Ds is going to stall, and they are going to have backwards plays. I go back to that Browns game. Yeah they score 32 points, but it took 13 drives and their bad offense which couldn't stay on the field allowed that many chances, plus we were gifted an easy TD with the ball basically at the 5. The other 2 touchdowns happened cause those drives had big plays. Henderson with a big run. Maye with a big run. Boutte with a big catch. Huge explosive field position changing plays.

The fact is when you look at the Pats offense i think when they get into the playoffs and the conditions get harder and Ds get better, they are going to have serious problems with their lack of star talent. Maye has made it work for much of the year, But can he do long sustained TD drives vs Denver or Philly or LAR or SEA? IDK. I don't love it though with our OL.

This offense badly needs both Henderson and Williams to help pitch in on making explosive plays. Not just Maye putting it into a bucket 40 yards down field into tight coverage when his line holds out long enough. They need an RB who can bust a simple run outside and pick up 40 or 50. They need a WR who can turn a 10 yard gain into a 40 yard gain with speed and quickness after the catch. I really think to win it all they need both these guys contributing. Henderson is really coming into his own. I think he will be there, but i don't think it will be enough.

If we want to not only get to the super bowl but win it, we need a WR who can turn a pretty good play into a TD on sheer speed and talent. Williams (I believe) is the only WR on this roster capable of it. In there run he's going to need to come through huge at some point. I think Vrabel knows this and it's why he keeps running him out despite the miscommunications and lack of production. He knows for this team to reach the next level Williams needs to be not just a distraction who keeps the safety honest, but a difference maker. I hope it clicks. Even if not this year i don't plan to call him a bust. But i will not feel good if he doesn't get it together come playoff time even with the #1 seed. I think they badly need a Williams shot in the arm to level the playing field.

 

[TommyD4207]

[Many Words]

He's WR5.

 

[Pape]

A couple of thoughts to start the week with.

1. I wonder why our secondary and the term "suspect" are always linked. And while the secondary is not top 10, it is averaging just 215ypg and would be in the top 10 if they could just shave 15yds off that number. Also, the slightly higher number could also be because teams throw more on the Pats 1) because they know they can't run against them (#1) and 2) they get thrown on more because teams are often coming from behind late in games and we are playing garbage time zones.

its not the yards, its the points...



we've let up 19 passing TDs... ranks us in the bottom third of the league, tied with the Ginats... thats why its called "suspect"... because it is...


.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I am going to post about Kyle Williams. Feel free to dislike as it won't be completely positive.

Does anyone remember that time Brady said to Galloway 'It's not that F**king complicated'? Fans seemed to agree. He was here for 10+ weeks at that point i think and not getting it. This signing we were all hyped about just didn't work out cause he couldn't play in this system.

Williams has had a problem with this most of the year. He had a huge misread last game on a relatively straight forward read on a pass. I know he's a rookie so is in a different situation than Galloway, and others who simply couldn't figure out the offense... but at some point you just worry, will he ever get it? It's been months of this and he is still making mistakes on very easy reads. Some not as obvious, but even easier ones.

Yes you can pull out examples of his speed and getting off the line clean. We know he can do that. That's why we drafted him cause we know he has that talent. We know he has the talent to play in this league, but can he run in this system or not? His ability to beat his guy off the line and burn him if he gets behind him has nothing to do with his ability to be in the right spot at the right time. They are completely different problems. And I am getting kind of tired seeing them brought up in his defense. Cause that is not the problem.

As much as many Pats fans love this system it does have the occasional by product of some WRs who would be otherwise good just never seeming to be able to get it for one reason or another. I know people will bring up Boutte, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't so much the system as he needed to fill out his skill set. Williams has the skill set already, that much is clear. You get the ball in his hands and he can make things happen. His TD catch was so fun to watch and showed a hint of what could be. But the impressive part of that play was not his route. He ran basically a crosser in a straight line. Not really so much a read but pure talent and a good pass.

My expectations for this team have moved as the year has gone on. At first it was play off experience. Then a decent play off run. Now I am not expecting more but hoping for it as it seems possible. But the fact is when i look at this team up and down the roster, they don't have the ability to win it all as they stand today IMO.

Drake is great, I think ther D is good and will keep them in it vs most anyone no matter what DVOA or other tools say. But the fact is when the rubber meets the road and you look at it objectively they are lacking some talent compared to other top teams. Boutte is pretty good. Henry is okay. Hollins is a solid contributor. But Diggs as good as he is only plays 50% of the snaps. Even if that goes up in the post season it won't be enough. Their OL is hopefully going to improve more before crunch time, but it is still a weakness.

This teams vs good Ds is going to stall, and they are going to have backwards plays. I go back to that Browns game. Yeah they score 32 points, but it took 13 drives and their bad offense which couldn't stay on the field allowed that many chances, plus we were gifted an easy TD with the ball basically at the 5. The other 2 touchdowns happened cause those drives had big plays. Henderson with a big run. Maye with a big run. Boutte with a big catch. Huge explosive field position changing plays.

The fact is when you look at the Pats offense i think when they get into the playoffs and the conditions get harder and Ds get better, they are going to have serious problems with their lack of star talent. Maye has made it work for much of the year, But can he do long sustained TD drives vs Denver or Philly or LAR or SEA? IDK. I don't love it though with our OL.

This offense badly needs both Henderson and Williams to help pitch in on making explosive plays. Not just Maye putting it into a bucket 40 yards down field into tight coverage when his line holds out long enough. They need an RB who can bust a simple run outside and pick up 40 or 50. They need a WR who can turn a 10 yard gain into a 40 yard gain with speed and quickness after the catch. I really think to win it all they need both these guys contributing. Henderson is really coming into his own. I think he will be there, but i don't think it will be enough.

If we want to not only get to the super bowl but win it, we need a WR who can turn a pretty good play into a TD on sheer speed and talent. Williams (I believe) is the only WR on this roster capable of it. In there run he's going to need to come through huge at some point. I think Vrabel knows this and it's why he keeps running him out despite the miscommunications and lack of production. He knows for this team to reach the next level Williams needs to be not just a distraction who keeps the safety honest, but a difference maker. I hope it clicks. Even if not this year i don't plan to call him a bust. But i will not feel good if he doesn't get it together come playoff time even with the #1 seed. I think they badly need a Williams shot in the arm to level the playing field.

I think there should be a small set of plays for him that take advantage of his speed after the catch rather than by the time he gets way down the field. And maybe that makes it easier for him to get to the right place.

If he can't get those then it isn't going to work.

One of the reporters was talking about on his play on Thursday he wasn't even looking back to look for the ball or twist his body to make the over the shoulder catch. I don't think we should change the system for a guy who can't be bothered to do the very basics of playing WR just because he's fast.

 

[DC Patriots]

I am going to post about Kyle Williams. Feel free to dislike as it won't be completely positive.

Does anyone remember that time Brady said to Galloway 'It's not that F**king complicated'? Fans seemed to agree. He was here for 10+ weeks at that point i think and not getting it. This signing we were all hyped about just didn't work out cause he couldn't play in this system.

Williams has had a problem with this most of the year. He had a huge misread last game on a relatively straight forward read on a pass. I know he's a rookie so is in a different situation than Galloway, and others who simply couldn't figure out the offense... but at some point you just worry, will he ever get it? It's been months of this and he is still making mistakes on very easy reads. Some not as obvious, but even easier ones.

Yes you can pull out examples of his speed and getting off the line clean. We know he can do that. That's why we drafted him cause we know he has that talent. We know he has the talent to play in this league, but can he run in this system or not? His ability to beat his guy off the line and burn him if he gets behind him has nothing to do with his ability to be in the right spot at the right time. They are completely different problems. And I am getting kind of tired seeing them brought up in his defense. Cause that is not the problem.

As much as many Pats fans love this system it does have the occasional by product of some WRs who would be otherwise good just never seeming to be able to get it for one reason or another. I know people will bring up Boutte, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't so much the system as he needed to fill out his skill set. Williams has the skill set already, that much is clear. You get the ball in his hands and he can make things happen. His TD catch was so fun to watch and showed a hint of what could be. But the impressive part of that play was not his route. He ran basically a crosser in a straight line. Not really so much a read but pure talent and a good pass.

My expectations for this team have moved as the year has gone on. At first it was play off experience. Then a decent play off run. Now I am not expecting more but hoping for it as it seems possible. But the fact is when i look at this team up and down the roster, they don't have the ability to win it all as they stand today IMO.

Drake is great, I think ther D is good and will keep them in it vs most anyone no matter what DVOA or other tools say. But the fact is when the rubber meets the road and you look at it objectively they are lacking some talent compared to other top teams. Boutte is pretty good. Henry is okay. Hollins is a solid contributor. But Diggs as good as he is only plays 50% of the snaps. Even if that goes up in the post season it won't be enough. Their OL is hopefully going to improve more before crunch time, but it is still a weakness.

This teams vs good Ds is going to stall, and they are going to have backwards plays. I go back to that Browns game. Yeah they score 32 points, but it took 13 drives and their bad offense which couldn't stay on the field allowed that many chances, plus we were gifted an easy TD with the ball basically at the 5. The other 2 touchdowns happened cause those drives had big plays. Henderson with a big run. Maye with a big run. Boutte with a big catch. Huge explosive field position changing plays.

The fact is when you look at the Pats offense i think when they get into the playoffs and the conditions get harder and Ds get better, they are going to have serious problems with their lack of star talent. Maye has made it work for much of the year, But can he do long sustained TD drives vs Denver or Philly or LAR or SEA? IDK. I don't love it though with our OL.

This offense badly needs both Henderson and Williams to help pitch in on making explosive plays. Not just Maye putting it into a bucket 40 yards down field into tight coverage when his line holds out long enough. They need an RB who can bust a simple run outside and pick up 40 or 50. They need a WR who can turn a 10 yard gain into a 40 yard gain with speed and quickness after the catch. I really think to win it all they need both these guys contributing. Henderson is really coming into his own. I think he will be there, but i don't think it will be enough.

If we want to not only get to the super bowl but win it, we need a WR who can turn a pretty good play into a TD on sheer speed and talent. Williams (I believe) is the only WR on this roster capable of it. In there run he's going to need to come through huge at some point. I think Vrabel knows this and it's why he keeps running him out despite the miscommunications and lack of production. He knows for this team to reach the next level Williams needs to be not just a distraction who keeps the safety honest, but a difference maker. I hope it clicks. Even if not this year i don't plan to call him a bust. But i will not feel good if he doesn't get it together come playoff time even with the #1 seed. I think they badly need a Williams shot in the arm to level the playing field.

He’s WR 5. Trading deadline is passed. Pats are going into a game against a losing team currently without it’s top 3 players.

Is would be a great thread for the offseason called “How Secure is Kyle Williams Spot.”

But I enjoyed reading your thoughts. They were well organized

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

If you take over the Panthers, don't you have to believe you can build around Ward with good coaching and a revamped roster? Otherwise WTF are you taking that job for?

If you take over the Panthers, you would have to trade for Ward to build around him

 

[mike_usagisan]

If you take over the Panthers, you would have to trade for Ward to build around him

Whoops. I got my crappy teams confused. Meant Titans.

 

[Zuma]

I think there should be a small set of plays for him that take advantage of his speed after the catch rather than by the time he gets way down the field. And maybe that makes it easier for him to get to the right place.

If he can't get those then it isn't going to work.

One of the reporters was talking about on his play on Thursday he wasn't even looking back to look for the ball or twist his body to make the over the shoulder catch. I don't think we should change the system for a guy who can't be bothered to do the very basics of playing WR just because he's fast.

We're talking 5-10 yard passes. Let him make the YAC with his speed. Over time he'll expand his horizons to further downfield but right now he can help the team the most with those short quick passes. Heck...pretend it's 1st and goal. That short quick pass to Diggs 2-3 games ago for a 1 yard TD...kinda what I have in mind. He can make something out of nothing...let him.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Whoops. I got my crappy teams confused. Meant Titans.

I knew what you meant, just having a little fun.
Brings up an interesting topic tho. Bryce Young has looked like absolute trash for long stretches of his career, but he keeps sprinkling in good short stretches here and there.
I have no idea if he will ever be consistently good or not.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If you take over the Panthers, don't you have to believe you can build around Ward with good coaching and a revamped roster? Otherwise WTF are you taking that job for?

The Titans? You sign up because you believe in one of the 2026 QB draft candidates?

 

[mike_usagisan]

The Titans? You sign up because you believe in one of the 2026 QB draft candidates?

Sorry, meant the Titans. So if you're taking that job, you give up on Ward before even taking it?

 

[KCSVEN]

So Bengals... No Burrow, No Chase, No Hendrickson, No Taylor-Britt.... Jesus.

Well, I expected the Patriots to win, but now don't they absolutely have to? I mean if they lose this what do you even say?

Bills lost to Falcons and Dolphins which is kind of mind boggling so you never know but Pats are 5-0 on the road.
Having Drake just takes a lot of the fear out of these type of upsets.
But in 2004 we lost to Dolphins with Brady. These upset tend to happen on the road, but it’s just seems a little bit too much to ask for from the Bengals.

 

[BobDigital]

its not the yards, its the points...



we've let up 19 passing TDs... ranks us in the bottom third of the league, tied with the Ginats... thats why its called "suspect"... because it is...


.

TDs can be a very misleading stat is isolation. For instance, the Pats are tied for lowest in the NFL with rushing TDs surrendered at 4 (in fact technically we are ahead as we surrendered 4 in 11 games vs 4 in 10 like LAR). They are a hard team to punch it in on near the goal line. That being the case when it comes to first and goal teams will be passer a lot more. I also think for some teams this makes defensive passer rating look better or worse than it actually is.

One of my favorite stats in defensive passing is YPA. We're 15th in the league. So middle of the pack. I also look at interceptions, particularly interceptions per play. But they are inconsistent. More than anything you just want to know that your team has the ability to capitalize on bad football.