Welker was never coming to the patriots

[Ring 6]

I dont think anyone is really happy WW is gone. He was a great player.

What I cant understand is why there is such a great devide.

The camp that understands its business and like it or not he is gone and that is how it is.

The other camp that seems to think that if they whine about it over and over he will come back. Or if they take a certain stance now they can say "I told you so" if the pats have any issue that position.

Seems like some people need to go out in the real world and learn 2 things.

1. Life isnt fair, you cant always get what you want, its business and not personal...etc
2. Dont make being right on a football website especially at the expense of your own teams success some sort of victory.

Make better use of your time by focusing on real issues.

I have no quarrel with anyone who thinks the team would be better with a 32 year old Welker for 2 years than a 27 year old Amendola for 5.

But the idea that the team owes the player something, or they mistreated them by not rewarding them for past performance, or somehow screwed them by exercise their rights and doing what they think is best for the team is just ridiculous.

 

[Brady6]

It's OK, Julian Edelman can "easily replace him," or Amendola for that matter.

Can I ask what exactly we need to replace? The priority of the team is to win SB's not have a WR lead the league in catches. Did Welker's production result in any SB's? No. Stats are meaningless at the end of the day greatness is defined by SB victories and Wes Welker has none.

I'm sure you've taken to this forum or another public arena and suggested players like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and others are overrated and don't do it when it matters. How is Welker any different?

 

[Ring 6]

Can I ask what exactly we need to replace?

You are kidding right?
No player on the Patriots except Brady and Wilfork have ever won a SB as a Patriot. Are you saying every other player should go, and they are useless?

The priority of the team is to win SB's not have a WR lead the league in catches. Did Welker's production result in any SB's? No. Stats are meaningless at the end of the day greatness is defined by SB victories and Wes Welker has none.

Again are you kididng?
Brady has been a complete failure for 9 years? Nothing he has done matters, except for putting up meaningless stats?

I'm sure you've taken to this forum or another public arena and suggested players like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and others are overrated and don't do it when it matters. How is Welker any different?

Well then lets include Brady and BB.

 

[Brady6]

I am saying that Wes Welker is not great he was a WR that teams would game plan to allow short catches to instead of allowing bigger plays to Moss. Gronkowski and even Hernandez. He did a good job making the most of those opportunities and compiled statistics but he is not a great players he is an above average slot WR in the late stages of his career.

Great players compile statistics AND WIN championships and that is why the only great player on the roster right now or last year is Tom Brady. The rest don't have to go anywhere but they aren't being called great by people in this forum either.

 

[Brady6]

Again are you kididng?
Brady has been a complete failure for 9 years? Nothing he has done matters, except for putting up meaningless stats?


Well then lets include Brady and BB.

They do it when it matters they've each won 3 SB's. Welker's won 0... I repeat zero. Brady and BB are great Welker is not.

 

[Bruins29]

Wilfork and Gronk and more than great players. They are Elite. AH also.

 

[Brady6]

Wilfork and Gronk and more than great players. They are Elite. AH also.

No they aren't. If they win a SB then they will be in a category of elite but a player cannot be considered elite in a league when he has never been a champion in it.

 

[Brady6]

Wilfork and Gronk and more than great players. They are Elite. AH also.

You can call them the best TE or DT never to win a SB if you wanted to give them an accolade. But great or elite is an over statement

 

[ausbacker]

No they aren't. If they win a SB then they will be in a category of elite but a player cannot be considered elite in a league when he has never been a champion in it.

Championships have nothing to do with positional assessment. I consider the top 3-5 players in their positions the elite players. Wilfork and Gronkowski are two of, if not the best in the NFL in their positions. They are elite.

 

[Bruins29]

No they aren't. If they win a SB then they will be in a category of elite but a player cannot be considered elite in a league when he has never been a champion in it.

So Reed and Marino and Kelly and SAnders and Gonzales are not elite players?

Come on

 

[Brady6]

So Reed and Marino and Kelly and SAnders and Gonzales are not elite players?

Come on

No they're not they have great statistical achievements but they aren't elite in my eyes anyway. I judge a player first on championships and second on statistics. That's me you're free to view them differently I personally cannot see a player who has never achieved the purpose of playing the game as elite.

 

[Brady6]

Championships have nothing to do with positional assessment. I consider the top 3-5 players in their positions the elite players. Wilfork and Gronkowski are two of, if not the best in the NFL in their positions. They are elite.

I don't my man. Not saying I am right and your wrong. I just think till you achieve the purpose of playing which is to WIN or it should be your not elite.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't my man. Not saying I am right and your wrong. I just think till you achieve the purpose of playing which is to WIN or it should be your not elite.

Championships are won by teams. Individual assessment are just that; individual. In your world, Trent Dilfer is a better player than Barry Sanders. No sir, I cannot agree with your definition or application of elite.

For the record, if you're happy to take Dennis Pitta over Rob Gronkowski you need to seriously think about your scale.

 

[Ring 6]

They do it when it matters they've each won 3 SB's. Welker's won 0... I repeat zero. Brady and BB are great Welker is not.

BB and Brady haven't been great for 9 years.
So let me understand. Brady was great his first 4 years, then as he became a better player, playing better as a QB, he sucked the last 8 years, because nothing he did matters if he didn't win a SB?
Jermaine Wiggings elite, Rob Gronkowski sucks.
Otis Smith elite, Champ Bailey sucks
Timmy Smith elite, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin, OJ Simpson, Eric ****erson, Adrian Peterson, suck.
Trent Dilfer elte, Jeff Hostetler elite, Marino, Kelly, Fouts, suck.
Nice.

 

[Brady6]

Championships are won by teams. Individual assessment are just that; individual. In your world, Trent Dilfer is a better player than Barry Sanders. No sir, I cannot agree with your definition or application of elite.

No not true I look first at championships second at stats. Both would be required so Dilfer lacked stats and Sanders lacked SB's. neither would I personally view as elite.

 

[ausbacker]

No not true I look first at championships second at stats. Both would be required so Dilfer lacked stats and Sanders lacked SB's. neither would I personally view as elite.

Give me a moment to compose myself whilst I step back from your contention that Barry Sanders, a universally recognised top 10 player in the history of the NFL, is not elite.

Jax, with all due respect, you should consider the embarrassment such a position will cause your opinions moving forward.

 

[Brady6]

BB and Brady haven't been great for 9 years.
So let me understand. Brady was great his first 4 years, then as he became a better player, playing better as a QB, he sucked the last 8 years, because nothing he did matters if he didn't win a SB?
Jermaine Wiggings elite, Rob Gronkowski sucks.
Otis Smith elite, Champ Bailey sucks
Timmy Smith elite, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin, OJ Simpson, Eric ****erson, Adrian Peterson, suck.
Trent Dilfer elte, Jeff Hostetler elite, Marino, Kelly, Fouts, suck.
Nice.

No a player needs to have both SB's and top stats to be considered great IMO. The players you named who won SB lack statistics. It takes more than just one component of the game to be considered elite you must lead in statistics and win championships. Can you understand that logic?

3 SB is 3 SB don't care when they did it and didn't do it when looking at a career and judging it what matters is that they did it.

 

[Brady6]

Give me a moment to compose myself whilst I step back from your contention that Barry Sanders, a universally recognised top 10 player in the history of the NFL, is not elite.

Jax, with all due respect, you should consider the embarrassment such a position will cause your opinions moving forward.

I consider E Smith the elite RB of that generation. Barry Sanders I'd describe as the best RB never to win a SB.

 

[Ring 6]

No a player needs to have both SB's and top stats to be considered great IMO. The players you named who won SB lack statistics. It takes more than just one component of the game to be considered elite you must lead in statistics and win championships. Can you understand that logic?

3 SB is 3 SB don't care when they did it and didn't do it when looking at a career and judging it what matters is that they did it.

You can't have it both ways. By your standard Brady and BB have sucked for 8 years.
Your argument is lame becuase it assumes all 53 players on the winning team are better than all 53 on the losing team.
The argument is reasonable for QBs, because they have so much to do with winning and losing.
You simply cannot hold not winning a SB against a player who was one of the greatest of all time because he wasn't on a team that was good enough.

Deacon Jones may have have been the best DE ever. He was unblockable. If you put him on any SB winning team, they would have still won the SB. He may have elevate some that didn't if you could put him there.
John Hannah was maybe the best OG of all time. There is no question that every team that won the SB during his career still would have with him at LG.
Champ Bailey was one of the greatest corners of all time. For the majority of his career (maybe not at the end) every SB winning team would have won if he was their starting corner.
The list goes on and on.
It is a team game. You can be the best ever to play the game at your position and not win a SB because of the players you are teamed with. As with anything trying to replace reason and thought with a hard and fast ignorant rule of thumb is foolhardy. Here you fail.

I value winning as much as anyone. But you have to use your brain.

Dan Marino was overrated. Not because he doesn't have a ring, but because he is considered great and a large part of the argument is that he did it all on his own. However, the excuse for him not winning is that he had to do it all on his own. The bottom line is that Marino played poorly in the games that his team was eliminated in, overall, and almost every time. His play was why they lost.
Wes Welker's play was not why the Patriots lost, in fact, without him, they wouldn't have gotten near where they did.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That has nothing to do with what they are saying about their decision making.
Are you really saying your point wins because you care about winning and I don't?



Again, not the point.
I accept this is a football decision and will be determined on the field.
You objected based on how it was portrayed in the media.

You're all over the place. I just said the same thing and you challenged it as a matter of me saying you don't care about winning when i actually said nothing of the sort, i said the wisdom of the decision will be borne out by the results next season.

You are also saying you don't care about the PR of it but jumped into a discussion of just that. Bottom line on that to me is that Kraft lied, you can respect that, i don't. At this point I'm basically done with it, I will simply put the loser a-holes who trash Welker on ignore because that's where they really belong.