Welker:Toward the end in NE, BB got on him in a way he never had before

[Remarker]

Hahaha, just wait 'til Welker isn't a receiver for Manning any longer and see who Welker talks about. Peyton is the consummate crybaby.

 

[Brady6]

Just swear to us that you had nothing to do with the phony names thing and we're good

Ho Lee *** that's Wi Tu Lo of a thing to do :rocker:

 

[TB12_laser designator]

Belichick: Toward the end in NE, Welker dropped passes in a way he never had before.

And they were big drops in big games.Yes I appreciate and respect what he did as a Patriot, but I'm glad he's gone. Because I think he made us predictable and one diemensional at times. Delighted we are developing a crop of kids, that offer a deep threat and can strecth the field. Been long overdue imo.

 

[Brady6]

Hahaha, just wait 'til Welker isn't a receiver for Manning any longer and see who Welker talks about. Peyton is the consummate crybaby.

I have a feeling he won't be saying much; he will be lucky to remember his name when the 2 season with Manning are over..

Austin Collie Big Hit - YouTube

Huge hit on Dallas Clark. - YouTube

Austin Collie Concussion Jaguars vs. Colts 12/19/10 - YouTube

 

[Kontradiction]

JAG is someone that you never really hear much about. Someone that could be replaced by another JAG. Moss topped 1000 yds in 2005 with Oakland and was injured in 2006.

Moss' last full season prior to entering Oakland was in 2003 where he caught 111 passes for 1,632 yards and 17 TD's. His first year in Oakland, he caught 60 passes for 1,005 yards and 8 TD's. Not a bad season by any stretch of the imagination, but my point about Moss's numbers dipping is proven correct. The next year, he played two less games and had 42 rec. for 553 yards and 3 TD's. By your definition, Moss was a JAG.

Larry Fitz has put up stupid numbers in AZ even with Kolb and Skelton throwing to him. Wasn't til last year with AZ playing musical chairs with 3rd string QBs that his numbers really suffered.

Larry Fitzgerald is a freak of nature, but his numbers still dipped in Arizona when he went from Warner throwing him the ball to Derek Anderson and Kevin Kolb throwing him the ball, particularly in the touchdown department. For other examples, Calvin Johnson's numbers didn't reach the heights that they have been the last couple of seasons until Stafford came along and remained healthy. Andre Johnson didn't reach the heights that he's been reaching until Schaub came along and stayed healthy. Terrell Owens' numbers dipped from 2007 to 2008 when Romo got injured and the Cowboys were tossing Brad Johnson out there as a starting QB, then again from 2008-2009 when he was traded to Buffalo with Edwards and Fitzpatrick throwing him the football.

These are all recent examples, but it's not exactly rocket science to see that most WR's numbers dip when playing with lesser quarterbacks. That doesn't make them JAGS. Further, your definition of JAG is lacking. Michael Jenkins and Jermaine Cunningham are JAGS. A guy that has 672 receptions for 7,459 yards and 37 TD's over a 5 year period, and 96 receptions for 1,121 yards and 1 TD in his first two years in the league before that isn't a JAG.

As for Welker doing well with Kurt Warner, that's hard to say as short range passes working the middle of the field wasn't Warner's game. He was a down field passer as well as hitting backs flaring out of the backfield.

My reply was in response to the teams that you brought up. Out of them all, I think Arizona would have been the best fit as far as productivity goes.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Is that sort of like the big apology BB owes Welker for trading and signing for him; an undrafted 5’9 185 pound wide receiver that never had over 700 yards in any season before, and then building an offense and a scheme that utilizes his talents unlike any other offense in the NFL could?

Insert words into people’s mouths much? Who the heck said anything about Welker owing us an apology? The statement was Belichick got on him in a way unlike before; well my statement suggests that it could have been reasonable criticism seeing that Welker was dropping passes unlike before. Where in the world you pulled a request for an apology out of that is beyond me, I’m assuming you were just trolling looking for something to banter about and your moose froze up around my post so you just went with it..

:trolls:

Ivan's normally a solid poster, but he completely loses his mind the second Welker comes up. Definitely not a troll, this particular topic just sets him off in a weird way. Hard to explain, but it's just one of those things,

 

[Brady6]

And they were big drops in big games.Yes I appreciate and respect what he did as a Patriot, but I'm glad he's gone. Because I think he made us predictable and one diemensional at times. Delighted we are developing a crop of kids, that offer a deep threat and can strecth the field. Been long overdue imo.

On a serious note I think this comment speaks to why Welker is gone, if you're going rebuild your receiving core with a bunch or rookies and young players you cannot exactly your go to wide receiver resisting coaching and pouting over constructive criticism. The 2 years we could of signed Welker and had him be productive likely is not worth the lasting imprint he could of had on the rookies like Dobson, Boyce, etc.

I think another example although the subject matter isn't ideal is the article that leaked about Hernandez threatening to kill Welker during his rookie year, now obviously Hernandez severally overreacted; despite that it does highlight Welker's unwillingness to help rookie receivers when all Hernandez asked was for help working the video equipment.

 

[Brady6]

Ivan's normally a solid poster, but he completely loses his mind the second Welker comes up. Definitely not a troll, this particular topic just sets him off in a weird way. Hard to explain, but it's just one of those things,

It's all good; I'm just breaking em back, on him No hard feelings or love lost :rocker:

 

[SVN]

I like welker and wish he was here but if he means that BB got on him very hard in the end and it bothered him, he really doesnt have an argument that he sincerely wanted to stay.

 

[supafly]

As much as some disagreed with me, it seemed pretty reasonable to me that this wasn't "just" over a very small amount of money. There seemed to certainly be a chance that there were some behind the scenes issues between the two, even if it was deemed small or insubstantial compared to most issues.

You'd have to think that if it were just about the money alone, NE would have upped their offer 1 million dollars making it a 2/11 deal with 8.5 million guaranteed in year one--which was actually more than DEN gave him. That certainly would have been enough to keep him here.

Sadly, Belichick did not see reason to up the offer a measly 1 million dollars, and to me that points to more than just money being involved.

 

[Demosthenes]

Moss' last full season prior to entering Oakland was in 2003 where he caught 111 passes for 1,632 yards and 17 TD's. His first year in Oakland, he caught 60 passes for 1,005 yards and 8 TD's. Not a bad season by any stretch of the imagination, but my point about Moss's numbers dipping is proven correct. The next year, he played two less games and had 42 rec. for 553 yards and 3 TD's. By your definition, Moss was a JAG.



Larry Fitzgerald is a freak of nature, but his numbers still dipped in Arizona when he went from Warner throwing him the ball to Derek Anderson and Kevin Kolb throwing him the ball, particularly in the touchdown department. For other examples, Calvin Johnson's numbers didn't reach the heights that they have been the last couple of seasons until Stafford came along and remained healthy. Andre Johnson didn't reach the heights that he's been reaching until Schaub came along and stayed healthy. Terrell Owens' numbers dipped from 2007 to 2008 when Romo got injured and the Cowboys were tossing Brad Johnson out there as a starting QB, then again from 2008-2009 when he was traded to Buffalo with Edwards and Fitzpatrick throwing him the football.

These are all recent examples, but it's not exactly rocket science to see that most WR's numbers dip when playing with lesser quarterbacks. That doesn't make them JAGS. Further, your definition of JAG is lacking. Michael Jenkins and Jermaine Cunningham are JAGS. A guy that has 672 receptions for 7,459 yards and 37 TD's over a 5 year period, and 96 receptions for 1,121 yards and 1 TD in his first two years in the league before that isn't a JAG.



My reply was in response to the teams that you brought up. Out of them all, I think Arizona would have been the best fit as far as productivity goes.

A quick illustration. You just said that Michael Jenkins is a JAG. His stats over his first 3 years weren't that different than Welker's. Welker was 96 receptions for 1,121 yards, Jenkins was 82 for 1063. Not that much of a difference.

Again, Welker didn't become a "star" until he was part of the Pat's offense and had Brady throwing the ball to him.

I'll wager that his stats in Denver will be noticeably down this year as well. And you won't be able to say it's due to having a substandard QB throwing to him.

Coincidentally, Amendola will have his best season, with a big jump in both number of receptions, as well as total yards.


EDIT:

BTW, your last statement illustrates my point as well:

My reply was in response to the teams that you brought up. Out of them all, I think Arizona would have been the best fit as far as productivity goes.

 

[Kontradiction]

A quick illustration. You just said that Michael Jenkins is a JAG. His stats over his first 3 years weren't that different than Welker's. Welker was 96 receptions for 1,121 yards, Jenkins was 82 for 1063. Not that much of a difference.

I probably should have qualified that by saying currently, but thought that was apparent when I put Cunningham in there as well.

Anyway, I wouldn't put Jenkins as a JAG earlier in his career. When he was with Atlanta, he was putting up solid numbers in spite of mostly playing with a quarterback whose M.O. is to run first and ask questions later for most of his time. His numbers had a spike in 2008 when Ryan came along. But now, he looks like he is toast and is simply a camp body or... Just Another Guy.

Again, Welker didn't become a "star" until he was part of the Pat's offense and had Brady throwing the ball to him.

And, again, good quarterbacks do that for WR's. There's a big difference in playing with the likes of Gus Frerotte, Daunte Culpepper post knee injury, and Joey Harrington then playing with the likes of a Tom Brady.

I'll wager that his stats in Denver will be noticeably down this year as well. And you won't be able to say it's due to having a substandard QB throwing to him.

They'll probably drop. But I don't think it's going to be as noticeable as you make it. More, I think they'll drop because he's not going to be the focal point of their offense like he was here (something else that teams don't usually do with JAGs). There, he has to compete with Decker and Thomas (both guys who can threaten deep) for balls. Here, it was him then Gronk, Hernandez, and everyone else after.

Coincidentally, Amendola will have his best season, with a big jump in both number of receptions, as well as total yards.

If he can stay healthy, understand the playbook, and understand the route trees on any given play, he should be poised for his best season yet.

 

[Kontradiction]

EDIT:

BTW, your last statement illustrates my point as well:

I don't disagree with your point that WR's put up better numbers with better quarterbacks. What I disagree with is your definition of a JAG. It just doesn't fit with the original Parcells model.

 

[VrabelJr]

Wow. Welker really seems intent on turning this into a bad break up. He needs to move on and so do all of us fans.

 

[Brady6]

As much as some disagreed with me, it seemed pretty reasonable to me that this wasn't "just" over a very small amount of money. There seemed to certainly be a chance that there were some behind the scenes issues between the two, even if it was deemed small or insubstantial compared to most issues.

You'd have to think that if it were just about the money alone, NE would have upped their offer 1 million dollars making it a 2/11 deal with 8.5 million guaranteed in year one--which was actually more than DEN gave him. That certainly would have been enough to keep him here.

Sadly, Belichick did not see reason to up the offer a measly 1 million dollars, and to me that points to more than just money being involved.

I agree; my theory is that both Welker and Lloyd had particular attitudes/behaviors that Belichick did not want being passed on to the rookies. Belichick seems to prefer these 3 types of players in general but specifically when he is rebuilding a specific positional group.

1. Rookies; who have to earn everything.
2. Players with baggage; who are on their last leg in the NFL and have to prove they’re worth on tight leashes.
3. End of life players with solid character; who are either chasing a ring or hoping to hang on to their careers.

Belichick seems to be willing to take short term losses in production if he feels that keeping the player(s) could be detrimental to long term plan, or the player(s) could leave a lasting imprint on his new herd of talent.

 

[Jackson 2]

Most of what's been said by Welker since he left screams to me that he's sorry he ever left.

 

[mgcolby]

The "Welker didn't do enough crowd" aren't nearly as critical of Assante Samuel for missing an easy SB pick and Rodney for not knocking the ball off Tyree's helmet. Using the fanbot Welker logic those players didn't step up either...yet it's rarely mentioned.

It was 6 years ago...if you were here then you would have read those comments. Not as many about Rodney because 1. He was in position to make the play and Tyree just made a circus catch...2. He was covering for Dingleberry Samuel for quitting on the play when he thought Eli was going to be sacked. It was a pleasure to see Samuel in another uniform for me. Hate the way that guy played both when he was here and now. One of the most overrated CB's of all time. **** player.

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW, two other WRs playing for new teams this year had far more damning things to say about their former teams of last year.

Greg Jennings said that Packers brainwashed him to believe that the Packers are superior to all other teams in the division:

“When I came over here, I was kind of brainwashed,” Jennings told Paul Allen and Ben Leber of KFAN radio. “There’s no ‘kind of’ to it. Being over in Green Bay, you’re brainwashed to think anyone in the division is tiers below. And so coming over here I meet the people within the organization and I’m like, ‘Wow, these are really great people.’

‘It’s like everything that you know in Green Bay is like the best, the best, the best, the best, the best,” Jennings said. “And it’s like total brainwashing. And I think you don’t open your eyes to see what other teams have to offer unless you are in that position.”

Jennings says there?s ?brainwashing? in Green Bay | ProFootballTalk

Chaz Schilens claims that the Jets looked for scapegoats everywhere other than Sanchez last year:

“For me there?” Schilens said. “Really, when it came down to it, I kind of felt like they were looking for scapegoats and besides everyone except for, you know, maybe the quarterback position, and it was what it was. When free agency didn’t start off right away, I just kind of understood what it was and part of the business.”

Asked about Sanchez and whether he can win back fans, Schilens said, “Nothing good to say, so I’m not going to say nothing.”

Competition fierce as six (or seven) Detroit Lions have shot at fifth wide receiver spot | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Not that I thought Welker said much of anything bad to begin with, but compared to these two WRs his comments are downright tame. Granted Jennings' comments aren't all that bad other than make the Packers look full of themselves.

 

[Demosthenes]

I don't disagree with your point that WR's put up better numbers with better quarterbacks. What I disagree with is your definition of a JAG. It just doesn't fit with the original Parcells model.

Fair enough. In my book, JAG isn't really an insult and they rate above camp bodies. A JAG is a guy that's "solid", but you would trade away without worry because he can be replaced fairly easily. What's between a JAG and a "star" player ?

I think that if Welker had stayed in Miami, almost no one would know his name. Similarly, if he went to most other teams in the NFL, even teams with good QBs, he would be basically be anonymous. I definitely think he wouldn't have hit 100 receptions /1000 yds in any season.

 

[Kontradiction]

Fair enough. In my book, JAG isn't really an insult and they rate above camp bodies. A JAG is a guy that's "solid", but you would trade away without worry because he can be replaced fairly easily. What's between a JAG and a "star" player ?

I think that if Welker had stayed in Miami, almost no one would know his name. Similarly, if he went to most other teams in the NFL, even teams with good QBs, he would be basically be anonymous. I definitely think he wouldn't have hit 100 receptions /1000 yds in any season.

You're entitled to your opinion. And you may have had a point. But in the AFC East, at least, most Bills, Pats, and Jets fans knew full well about Welker prior to 2007.