Was letting Sheard and Long walk a mistake?

[n1997y]

I think if BB really wanted Long to return, he couldve easily talked him into staying.

only way BB could have convinced Long to stay would have been to change what he was asked to do.

no way Belichick would change his scheme for Long. He's only done that once, for Lawrence Taylor, and Long is no LT.

 

[n1997y]

...
Why did we work out a ton of first round players? Specifically some in the top 20?
...

not getting into the line of fire, but taking that as a serious question deserving a serious answer.

I believe BB works out prospects he has no thought of drafting, as part of doing thorough due diligence. It provides QC on scouting reports. It helps him build his book on the players, so he knows better what they can and cannot do well and how to scheme against them. It gives him a baseline for valuing them if they later become available on the waiver wire or as trades or free agents.

Makes more sense to do that for potential first rounders than for late round prospects, they're more likely to be playing for someone else so knowing their strengths and weaknesses will be more important. And they're more likely to stick in the league and come up as prospective acquisitions down the road, so knowing their baseline helps evaluate those opportunities better.

It's all part of doing his job.

 

[luuked]

see attached for a partial list

2017 NFL Draft visit tracker: 70+ prospects linked to the Patriots

And yes, it was speculated that we might trade JG or Butler for a 1st rounder.

Butler is a completely different story though. When we signed Gilmore my first thought -- which btw. is documented in one of the draft board threads -- was that Butler might be gone. That was a much more realistic proposition with the player taking visits. JG was a total media jerkjob with others like Schefter and Lombardi saying the entire time that unless for a total nuts compensation package he wont go anywhere.

 

[maineman209]

Just putting my thoughts out there.

Less to do with personnel and more to do with the defensive game plan. imo.

In short I think they needed to go bigger. They may have wanted to flood the field with DB's and force Smith into some mistakes but they may have been better off using a 4 -3 or 4-2 and getting pressure on Smith to force the mistakes.

A.Butler, Branch, Brown, Flowers

Hightower, Van Noy

5 Db's.

1. The Pats at times had 6 DB's with a 5 man front (3 DL's + 2 LB's) vs a behemoth 2 or 3 TE sets (5 OL + 3 TE's). This just seemed to be too many big bodies on too many little bodies.


#1 - Brown doubled. #2 - Branch Doubled, #3 Hightower Doubled.

One OL peels off and gets to Van Noy in the second level allowing hunt to hit the gap.






2. They also ran a bunch of creative crossing routes with their speed guys. This seemed to cause confusion for the Pats D.

Presnap:


Postsnap:
I've circled Richards at the top. He was "athletic" enough to get coverage on the RB Hunt coming out of the backfield.

That's a lot of moving parts to decipher for a defense. Criss crossing routes, guy out of the backfield etc...

Snap to throw was approx. two seconds.


The X marks the reception. Van Noy is the LB trailing Tyreek Hill. He was forced OOB at the 38.

"Creative crossing routes"... the new euphemism for "pick play"?

 

[maineman209]

Still hard to believe we gave up 42 to the chiefs off all teams but it's 1 game. If the saints drop 30 plus next week then maybe we can start getting concerned. I expect everything from the run defense and the pass defense to play well.

It will be worth noting what the Chiefs do to Philly next week, too. If the Chiefs win while hanging +/- 35 on the Eagles ...?

 

[DarrylS]

Predictable second guessing thread, what would have happened if.. no one knows, what I do know is the O and D sucked in that game, was it the game plan?? Lack of talent?? Underestimating the Chiefs?? Would Sheard or Long made any difference??

Stay tuned more news to follow on September 17th.. we all have enough confidence to know things will get better..

Remember the 31-0 blowout by the Bills in 2003?? Somehow after everyone whined, *****ed and cried about the players lost "confidence" in BB they won the Superbowl..

 

[bresna]

Incorrect.

Why did we work out a ton of first round players? Specifically some in the top 20?

Haven't you read the stories that say that the Patriots will sometimes use a workout to scout a player they might face once he's on another team?

There is also some speculation that they work out players that they don't want to convince teams above them to grab that player.

 

[scott99]

Are Sheard, Long and Ninkovich Allpro players ? No. So you think losing them wouldn't hurt. BUT, they were important pieces to this team, and the loss of their leadership and talent and what they did for this team hurts big time. A lot of times, chemistry plays a huge part in being a champion too. That's a big loss too, team chemistry. 30% turnover to the roster, that's pretty big.

We shall see if they get that chemistry going, unfortunately trading for Ealy hurt big time as well. We didn't get that SB 50 Ealy, and Belichick couldn't get it out of him.

Sheard, Long and Ninkovich were replaced with special teasers and a 4th round pick.

 

[Tony2046]

"Creative crossing routes"... the new euphemism for "pick play"?

How dare you mock my elaboration.

 

[captain stone]

It will be worth noting what the Chiefs do to Philly next week, too. If the Chiefs win while hanging +/- 35 on the Eagles ...?

I could be wrong of course, but I also believe that Philly's defense (which, unlike ours, should have an actual pass rush) will be ready for KC's gimmick offense.

 

[maineman209]

I could be wrong of course, but I also believe that Philly's defense (which, unlike ours, should have an actual pass rush) will be ready for KC's gimmick offense.

IDK. It seemed to me that the "gimmicky" part of the KC offense was maybe Reid's response to what he thought the Pats might do to take away Hill and Kelce - which seemed like it was pretty much what even we here thought the Pats would do.

So, maybe KC doesn't use the same gimmicks against Philly? And they may not need to. Kareem Hunt didn't look like a gimmick to me, and I'd have to guess that the Philly defense may be paying him a little more attention now, which might then free up Hill and Kelce even more for KC.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. OTOH, KC plays at the same time as the Pats, so not a tough decision which game to watch.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I could be wrong of course, but I also believe that Philly's defense (which, unlike ours, should have an actual pass rush) will be ready for KC's gimmick offense.

Can Alex Montana Smith have the game of his life twice? I would be surprise. Our defense made that guy look like a pro bowler

 

[captain stone]

IDK. It seemed to me that the "gimmicky" part of the KC offense was maybe Reid's response to what he thought the Pats might do to take away Hill and Kelce - which seemed like it was pretty much what even we here thought the Pats would do.

So, maybe KC doesn't use the same gimmicks against Philly? And they may not need to. Kareem Hunt didn't look like a gimmick to me, and I'd have to guess that the Philly defense may be paying him a little more attention now, which might then free up Hill and Kelce even more for KC...

Kareem Hunt is no gimmick, that's for sure.
What is a gimmick is all of the shovel-pass-to-Kelce/wildcat crap that KC did, and got away with, throughout the game.

 

[maineman209]

Kareem Hunt is no gimmick, that's for sure.
What is a gimmick is all of the shovel-pass-to-Kelce/wildcat crap that KC did, and got away with, throughout the game.

Yeah. I can't see KC even trying that against Philly.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Rogers running for his life. Seahawks push back the Green Bay lineman every single play

 

[captain stone]

Yeah. I can't see KC even trying that against Philly.

I'm sure they'll try some; I just don't think they'll be nearly as successful at it.

 

[maineman209]

I'm sure they'll try some; I just don't think they'll be nearly as successful at it.

Hard to know until they play. The Iggles didn't exactly dominate over Snyder's Clown Car today, so I'm not sure that sheds much light on what may happen in KC next Sunday.

Blizzard maybe?

 

[JMC00]

EDGE JABAAL SHEARD, 45.2 OVERALL GRADE
Perhaps the biggest free agent move for a defense in need of talent, and most definitely not the start anyone in Colts blue wanted. Sheard was ineffective, logging as many tackles as ones he missed, while most importantly failing to register a sack, hit or hurry. That will need to improve if Indy are going to improve on defense

 

[mgteich]

Remember the 31-0 blowout by the Bills in 2003?? Somehow after everyone whined, *****ed and cried about the players lost "confidence" in BB they won the Superbowl..

Yes, I remember the blowout by the Bills in 2003. This game had exactly ZERO to do with that game. It is no big deal that message bard posters are criticizing Belichick.

The team didn't "lose confidence" with Belichick. However, they did learn that they were all replaceable employees. Belichick cut Team Captain all-pro Milloy in the middle of a 7 year contract because he wouldn't take a pay cut. And this was done in the week before the opener. Bruschi and several others openly criticized Belichick. All but the most vocal homer was visibly shocked. After a week, the players settled down and focused on their jobs.