Vrabel tells it like it is about the Pats drafting

[RobertWeathers]

Two others on that short list have major health questions; and the 4th one's a Punter.

We don't have Any top-end talent, although I really believe that Henderson will be one, perhaps as soon as his first game this Sunday...

I believe Gonzo is top end. The assumption is his injury is temporary as opposed to Diggs which has age/ACL questions.

Agree on Henderson. He is greased lightnin'...but needs to prove it.

 

[Raccoonsuit]

Vrabel has the right approach. This has rarely been a destination for free agents especially on the offensive side.

Colvin, seau, Harrison were all great defensive signings way back when but Chris Godwin didn't wanna come here this past year. Milton did though.

I think it's harder to find great offensive players in the draft so that's why I'm excited about this class. The WR drought has been going on so long I never understood why the pats didn't hone in on whoever the Packers or Steelers were looking at for WR in the draft.

Eliot Wolfe blows. I can not emphasize how much this nepo baby needs to go. I hope Stretch is gonna give him his walking papers when wolfes contract is up. He makes so many excuses for himself,

"Oh I didn't have time to implement my draft strategy the last 4 years I was here." Wet fart noise. Get outta here with that ********.

 

[Wozzy]

Two others on that short list have major health questions; and the 4th one's a Punter.

We don't have Any top-end talent, although I really believe that Henderson will be one, perhaps as soon as his first game this Sunday...

This is more "woe is us, we're Patriot's fans" malaise, this team has plenty of top end talent. Some it is young and unfufilled, but we'll see if Vrabel can draw water from the well.

Drake Maye, Will Campbell, Jared Wilson, Mike Onwenu, Henderson, Kyle Williams, Demario Douglas in the slot, Barmore, Milton Williams, Keion White, Harold Landry has been top end for years, Elijah Ponder and Swinson have that type of talent, Christian Ellis, Kyle Dugger, Brenden Schooler, Craig Woodson, Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, even Mile Battle has the talent....

No top end talent is absurd, every team in the league no matter how bad has talent. The Raiders suck... I'd still love to have Max Crosby, Brock Bowers or Kolton Miller.

 

[stinkypete]

This thread is all over the place, so my reply will be as well.

The media narrative on Diggs since mid-2003 doesn’t match the numbers. He’s declined, but he’s produced like a low end WR1, not a guy who is washed. I also don’t buy the ACL hype, it’s 2025, were a solid two decades removed from ACL injuries ending careers. He’s not a long term solution, but he is immediately the best WR we’ve had since Jules.

Onwenu will remain rostered as long as he is our best IOL, but I bet everyone in the building is crossing their fingers that someone else emerges. Paying a RG high end RT money is not responsible roster building unless you have a perennial all pro. In 2026 his cap number, combined with Diggs’, is roughly equivalent that to a top of market WR or pass rusher. I’d not be surprised if we target IOL early and often in the next draft.

The overall roster talent is better than some are giving it credit for. There are depth issues all over, and we lack PROVEN high end talent, but the middle class is solid and purposefully fit into their roles, and the UNPROVEN high end talent is the highest it’s been here in long time.

Maye, Campbell and Henderson have elite potential, and Wilson, Chism and Williams all could wind up very good. Three years ago we were digging for hope in a refuse heap of Mac Jones, Isaiah Wynn, Cole Strange, Tyquan Thornton, and Ty Montgomery.

The future is still murky, but this cupboard is far from bare.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Drake needs to be lights out or that 2024 draft WILL be the worst in NFL history.

I don’t see Wolf here beyond this year unless he takes a demotion to scouting dir.

It was that bad.

Especially so if rumors are true that Vrabel, Stretch, and Cowden ran this year’s draft.

You mean the “ rumors” that were created by fans, on sites like this? Cowden held a press conference after the draft crediting Wolf specifically as well as their scouts for the 18 months of work they put in getting the team ready for the draft, Vrabel, Cowden, and Streicher were there for 2-3 of those months. They used the prospect evaluation system Wolf implemented for the first time, and came away with one of the best drafts they have ever had. Ultimately Vrabel should get the credit for the draft because he makes the final decisions on players, but Wolf played a major role in evaluating the prospects and setting up their board. The people who have a problem with Wolf are the fans, not Vrabel and Co., and if they did have a problem with him we would know it by now.

Normally I would say to give it 2-3 years before making a serious judgement on a draft, but at this point it’s more than fair to say that other than Maye the 24’ Draft sucked, and that’s on Wolf has he had the final say on the picks. And I can understand fans being pissed off about that, but the flip side of that is the 25’ offseason was as good as it gets, and Wolf played a significant role in that. I don’t think Wolf is the kind of GM who should build a team on his own for a coach to then run, I think the model they now have, where Vrabel made it very clear what kind of players he wanted, and what kind of team he wanted to build, is a much better system for him to succeed in. I think Wolf’s strength is scouting, understanding how players are rated, and setting up the draft board, and I think his role in this draft was very significant, but even though he theoretically has final say on roster decisions he doesn’t actually make the final decision, that goes to Vrabel.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Vrabel has the right approach. This has rarely been a destination for free agents especially on the offensive side.

Colvin, seau, Harrison were all great defensive signings way back when but Chris Godwin didn't wanna come here this past year. Milton did though.

I think it's harder to find great offensive players in the draft so that's why I'm excited about this class. The WR drought has been going on so long I never understood why the pats didn't hone in on whoever the Packers or Steelers were looking at for WR in the draft.

Eliot Wolfe blows. I can not emphasize how much this nepo baby needs to go. I hope Stretch is gonna give him his walking papers when wolfes contract is up. He makes so many excuses for himself,

"Oh I didn't have time to implement my draft strategy the last 4 years I was here." Wet fart noise. Get outta here with that ********.

Streicher is Vrabel’s assistant, Wolf is several tiers above him, the only person who can fire Wolf is Kraft, although Vrabel could probably get rid of him if he wanted to. And the problem you have there is that Vrabel obviously doesn’t want to get rid of Wolf.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You left out Ashby, Farmer and Bryant.

And then there are UDFAs like Chism and Ponder, and it would have included Larison and Lampe if they were not injured.

If I’m not mistaken only two draftees failed to make the team, out of ten, Swinson and Minor. And, as you noted several UDFA’s also made the team.

 

[Wozzy]

Anyone who watched video of the Patriots war room during the draft saw Vrabel was clearly in charge, Cowden basically signed off on moves and Wolf was basically hosting the party.

I think Wolf had another year on his contract, not sure he’ll stick around after it’s over. I could be wrong.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The 2024 Draft is Drake Make short of being the Worst Draft in NFL History. We got one Good player from that Draft: and we were Drafting Fourth overall.

They were drafting 3rd, and you made it very clear that you didn’t want Maye, and that you wanted them to draft Marvin Harrison Jr. and build around him. A decision, that had Wolf made it would have set them back another 2-3 years. And they probably wouldn’t have Vrabel who cited Maye as a major reason he came here. You also left out the fact that you wanted Jay’lin Polk, until of course they drafted him, then you hated him and blasted Wolf for taking the guy you wanted. As faux GM’s go you are about as bad as it gets, if you had your way they would have 52 WR’s and a long snapper to get the ball to them. They would also be $500 million over the cap, but they would have Calvin Ridley, Brandon Aiyuk, Hollywood Brown, Marvin Harrison Jr., Tee Higgins, Jay’lin Polk, George Pickens, Deonte Johnson, Christian Watson, Tyquan Thornton, Teteroia MacMillen …… so many WR’s and so little time.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I don't' think that's rumor; look at the projected Starters... T-Rex Campbell - J Wilson maybe C Woodson. Guy who will get playing time Henderson - Kyle Williams and the Kicker. We can guess Wolf had no part in that.

Let’s see, Dante Scarnecchia loves Will Campbell but Patsfan2 hates him. Who should I listen to? Hmmmmmnnnn, tough question, Scar or 2, hmmmmmnn, I just can’t decide?

 

[Grogan14]

This is more "woe is us, we're Patriot's fans" malaise, this team has plenty of top end talent. Some it is young and unfufilled, but we'll see if Vrabel can draw water from the well.

Drake Maye, Will Campbell, Jared Wilson, Mike Onwenu, Henderson, Kyle Williams, Demario Douglas in the slot, Barmore, Milton Williams, Keion White, Harold Landry has been top end for years, Elijah Ponder and Swinson have that type of talent, Christian Ellis, Kyle Dugger, Brenden Schooler, Craig Woodson, Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, even Mile Battle has the talent....

No top end talent is absurd, every team in the league no matter how bad has talent. The Raiders suck... I'd still love to have Max Crosby, Brock Bowers or Kolton Miller.

Top end talent has to have proven it in NFL. Not just rose colored glasses potential. Of those you list above, how many have proven it for even one season. Gonzalez yes
Maybe Onwenu and Schooler.

All the others need to prove it before you can call them top end talent
Truth is right now they have a severe lack of proven top end talent

 

[Huckleberry1]

People need to realize that Wolf isn’t going anywhere. If they were going to get rid of him it would have happened the week after the draft. The scouting and grading ststem they are using is his, and the work on the next draft is going on right now, so if they weren’t going to use that, and Vrabel and Co. were going to replace it with their scouts and a system of their own making they would have cut bait with him immediately and started implementation of a system of their own. I do think, however, that Wolf’s role is different than a GM, like his father, who built the team they wanted and hired a coach to run it. Wolf’s role in New England is to identify the players that Vrabel wants, and bring them in, which is how Wolf has said he wants to operate.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

You mean the “ rumors” that were created by fans, on sites like this? Cowden held a press conference after the draft crediting Wolf specifically as well as their scouts for the 18 months of work they put in getting the team ready for the draft, Vrabel, Cowden, and Streicher were there for 2-3 of those months. They used the prospect evaluation system Wolf implemented for the first time, and came away with one of the best drafts they have ever had. Ultimately Vrabel should get the credit for the draft because he makes the final decisions on players, but Wolf played a major role in evaluating the prospects and setting up their board. The people who have a problem with Wolf are the fans, not Vrabel and Co., and if they did have a problem with him we would know it by now.

Normally I would say to give it 2-3 years before making a serious judgement on a draft, but at this point it’s more than fair to say that other than Maye the 24’ Draft sucked, and that’s on Wolf has he had the final say on the picks. And I can understand fans being pissed off about that, but the flip side of that is the 25’ offseason was as good as it gets, and Wolf played a significant role in that. I don’t think Wolf is the kind of GM who should build a team on his own for a coach to then run, I think the model they now have, where Vrabel made it very clear what kind of players he wanted, and what kind of team he wanted to build, is a much better system for him to succeed in. I think Wolf’s strength is scouting, understanding how players are rated, and setting up the draft board, and I think his role in this draft was very significant, but even though he theoretically has final say on roster decisions he doesn’t actually make the final decision, that goes to Vrabel.

You basically said what I did with more words.

I think it’s possible that Wolf is a very good scout.

I also think it’s possible that he isn’t great at actually choosing players.

To me, that doesn’t describe a GM but instead a dir of scouting.

That said, whomever made the actual picks this draft is who I want doing it moving forward.

I don’t think it was perfect (Campbell, Swinson, Williams may not be answers) but it was night and day better than recent drafts.

 

[Wozzy]

Top end talent has to have proven it in NFL. Not just rose colored glasses potential. Of those you list above, how many have proven it for even one season. Gonzalez yes
Maybe Onwenu and Schooler.

All the others need to prove it before you can call them top end talent
Truth is right now they have a severe kack of proven top end talent

Explain how a rookie is supposed to have proven it in the NFL?

We’ve seen repeatedly young players take a year or multiple years to develop. They didn’t suck, they just weren’t ready.

When the OP says we have no top end talent but omits Gonzo, Barmore, Landry and others it’s a clear case of Patriot malaise. The same negative nancy’s were telling us this team had “no talent” in 2014, 2016 and 2018.

We never have talent, only the other teams do… even when their records are substantially worse than ours.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You basically said what I did with more words.

I think it’s possible that Wolf is a very good scout.

I also think it’s possible that he isn’t great at actually choosing players.

To me, that doesn’t describe a GM but instead a dir of scouting.

That said, whomever made the actual picks this draft is who I want doing it moving forward.

I don’t think it was perfect (Campbell, Swinson, Williams may not be answers) but it was night and day better than recent drafts.

We don’t really know what Wolf’s role in free agency is, so it’s hard to describe his job description, but ultimately I think it’s finding the players Vrabel wants for this team. And given the offseason they just had I want them to keep the structure exactly as it is, as that was a great offseason. The next issue they are going to face is the depletion of their front office, because if they are successful then teams are going to come offering GM jobs to them, so keeping the front office and system in place and consistency will be a priority. The Ravens are one of the best examples of this, and ironically it was a Belichick guy, Newsom, who instituted it and ran it before passing it on to his assistants.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You basically said what I did with more words.

I think it’s possible that Wolf is a very good scout.

I also think it’s possible that he isn’t great at actually choosing players.

To me, that doesn’t describe a GM but instead a dir of scouting.

That said, whomever made the actual picks this draft is who I want doing it moving forward.

I don’t think it was perfect (Campbell, Swinson, Williams may not be answers) but it was night and day better than recent drafts.

What I contested was the claim about “ rumors” about Wolf’s role, which come from fans, and not the inside of the organization. And fans can simply say whatever they want, regardless of truth or credibility.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

What I contested was the claim about “ rumors” about Wolf’s role, which come from fans, and not the inside of the organization. And fans can simply say whatever they want, regardless of truth or credibility.

Ahh I see. I will say, Bedard and others covered it fairly extensively also.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Ahh I see. I will say, Bedard and others covered it fairly extensively also.

I have never seen any report other than from fans that Wolf played a minimal role. If you have a link I’ll look at it.

 

[signbabybrady]

What I contested was the claim about “ rumors” about Wolf’s role, which come from fans, and not the inside of the organization. And fans can simply say whatever they want, regardless of truth or credibility.

You do it all the time too

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Anyone who watched video of the Patriots war room during the draft saw Vrabel was clearly in charge, Cowden basically signed off on moves and Wolf was basically hosting the party.

I think Wolf had another year on his contract, not sure he’ll stick around after it’s over. I could be wrong.

But... but... but... *that grading system*!