Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[1960Pats]

There are a number of posters here who are definitely hoping that the Patriots fail this season. It’s a small number but they definitely exist. Don’t like it? Too bad.

I didn't say I don't like it. I really don't care but I just think it's total nonsense to think that way. If it isn't then I'm sure you can give me an example of one Pats fan who roots for the team to lose.

Now, if you were talking about the clowns who want to tank games for draft picks that's different, but I don't think you were talking about them. Were you?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Some of you guys seriously need to go on YouTube and watch some stuff from Andrew Brandt talking about how the cap really works.

 

[Sfpat]

Many on this forum want BB to be fired. Only one way that happens...........

 

[1960Pats]

I can't believe this is a topic that was worth 3 pages let alone 38. Take a deep breath and think about the basic premise of Curran's take. A SIX time superbowl winning coach was on the "hotseat" LESS than a year after winning ANOTHER superbowl. How ridiculous a notion can that be......and WHY are we still talking about it. Move on. Everything that needed to be said was already said THIRTY-FIVE pages ago.

Obviously it's worth 38 pages because it's up to 40 and still going strong.

 

[TheRainMaker]

They cheaped out and lost Blount and Amendola during their championship run in order to be fiscally responsible.

I had no problem with Blount leaving because he was continually getting stuffed in the biggest playoff games. He was awful against Atlanta and it was just getting too obvious with how they were using him (formations, down and distance). But of course, he rumbles for 90 yards and a TD in the 2017 Super Bowl.

The Gilmore deal was front loaded (which is why there was a dispute in 2021 when they'd already paid everything.).

This is what Andrew Brandt says teams should do when you have cap. Front load the deals so when the player declines, you are off the hook.

They traded Cooks back to recoup draft comp because they didn't want to pay him market.

I had no problem with this trade either. However, there was no plan in place to replace him.

 

[stinkypete]

Part of me wants to see BB go, only because it will end this freaking drama that has been ruining the fun of the game for 6 years now.

My thoughts, if this year is really "playoff win or bust", fire the man now. It's not a realistic expectation given the state of the roster and the current AFC competition. Keeping him around when the expectation is unattainable is wasting a year.

More realistically, the expectation for this team should be that it overachieves. This has always been the hallmark of the lesser of the Belichick coached teams, they almost always outperform expectations. In 2022, that might only mean 9 or 10 wins, but the team needs to be actually competitive against the good teams it plays, and capable of the occasional upset.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I had no problem with Blount leaving because he was continually getting stuffed in the biggest playoff games. He was awful against Atlanta and it was just getting too obvious with how they were using him (formations, down and distance). But of course, he rumbles for 90 yards and a TD in the 2017 Super Bowl.

This is what Andrew Brandt says teams should do when you have cap. Front load the deals so when the player declines, you are off the hook.

I had no problem with this trade either. However, there was no plan in place to replace him.

I agree. I have no problem with most of these decisions. Other examples: trading Chandler Jones, passing on big money for Trey Flowers. The Patriots made sound, rational decisions from a cost/value standpoint in 2010s. The issue is the attempted retcon job by Wozzy & Co. The Patriots did not go Mickey Loomis in the mid-late 2010s. Everything changed around 2017/18 with an obvious power struggle between coaching/mgmt and the star players like Brady, Gronk, Gilmore etc. That's when the personnel decisions started becoming irrational.

 

[1960Pats]

Many on this forum want BB to be fired. Only one way that happens...........

I'm not eager to see him fired in spite of my disapproval of the way he handled some issues. He's still a great coach but for me that's not as important as getting the best players.

 

[Wozzy]

There is no such thing as "reset their cap.". It's a fake concept you've created.

The Patriots entered 2020 with a quarter of their cap spent on dead cap, players no longer with the team, and kicking Gilmore's cap down the road twice in 2018 and 2019.

Resetting their cap means clearing dead cap, bad contracts and creating space... you don't understand, so it must be created by me. That's a you problem.

 

[Wozzy]

Specifically which cap hits/contracts/trades for star players in win now mode cost them their space in 2020? Maybe Antonio Brown but the whole situation there was a disaster. They cheaped out and lost Blount and Amendola during their championship run in order to be fiscally responsible. They refused to pay Gronk market. The Gilmore deal was front loaded (which is why there was a dispute in 2021 when they'd already paid everything.). They traded Cooks back to recoup draft comp because they didn't want to pay him market. They nickled and dimed Jared Cook in 2019 and therefore lost him, then cried and blamed Gronk so the fans turned on him to cover for Bill.

I've asked you this before and we both know you're just smoke and mirrors.

They actually started the aggressive cap back loading in 2021, ironically, which is why they had little money this off-season despite major holes. They structured almost every deal (Judon, Henry, Smith, Agholor) that way.

The Patriots dead cap for 2020 is easily found at the bottom of the page:

2020 New England Patriots Cap Table

The New England Patriots 2020 salary cap table, including team cap space, dead cap figures, and complete breakdowns of player cap hits, salaries, and bonuses.

www.spotrac.com

The Gilmore deal wasn't "front loaded," they reworked his contract in 2018 to sign players at the trade deadline and open up cap space which kicked his cap debt down the road. They did it again in 2019.

By 2020 he had one of the highest cap hits in the league, he had the highest cap hit again in 2021 despite the Pats signing 200 million dollars worth of free agents. Just making up facts isn't the same as possessing actual facts... don't lie.

 

[XLIX]

That rookies generally don’t start or even if they do need time to eventually develop into great players?

What’s next, I have to provide evidence that water is wet and the sky is blue?

You made the statement "Veterans know how to win, they don't have to be taught."
When challenged, you followed it up with "It’s based on factual evidence."

Let's see your "factual evidence". Put up or shut up.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Patriots entered 2020 with a quarter of their cap spent on dead cap, players no longer with the team, and kicking Gilmore's cap down the road twice in 2018 and 2019.

Resetting their cap means clearing dead cap, bad contracts and creating space... you don't understand so it must be created by me. That's a you problem.

Nice lie. The 2020 cap was around $200M and the Patriots had $24M in dead cap. Had they extended Brady before FA they would have avoided 13.5M of that bringing it to under 11M, so it’s closer to 5% of the cap and not 25% when you use real data and remove the circular Brady reference (they had so much dead cap they couldn’t sign Brady/ they had so much dead cap because they didn’t sign Brady).

They still would have paid him but it would not be Dead Cap and could have been deferred to 2021…however they needed that $25M in money for 350 yard, non-blocking TE Jonnu Smith and buy high Nelson Agholor.

I already mentioned the Antonio Brown situation which was unforeseen and I believe they recouped some of that. Other than that you’re looking at a bunch of small, standard cap charges under $2M.

Now that you’ve been dunked on (again) I’m guessing you’ll continue with the same fake narrative.

 

[Wozzy]

You made the statement "Veterans know how to win, they don't have to be taught."
When challenged, you followed it up with "It’s based on factual evidence."

Let's see your "factual evidence". Put up or shut up.

Veterans are more knowledgeable than rookies... that doesn't need evidence.

And if you want to die on that hill, have at it... just dumb.

 

[Sfpat]

You made the statement "Veterans know how to win, they don't have to be taught."
When challenged, you followed it up with "It’s based on factual evidence."

Let's see your "factual evidence". Put up or shut up.

Just 5 seconds thinking about this but

Exhibit A - LA Rams
Exhibit B - TB Bucs

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Patriots dead cap for 2020 is easily found at the bottom of the page:

2020 New England Patriots Cap Table

The New England Patriots 2020 salary cap table, including team cap space, dead cap figures, and complete breakdowns of player cap hits, salaries, and bonuses.

www.spotrac.com

The Gilmore deal wasn't "front loaded," they reworked his contract in 2018 to sign players at the trade deadline and open up cap space which kicked his cap debt down the road. They did it again in 2019.

By 2020 he had one of the highest cap hits in the league, he had the highest cap hit again in 2021 despite the Pats signing 200 million dollars worth of free agents. Just making up facts isn't the same as possessing actual facts... don't lie.

So these many aggressive, championship window maneuvering moves you’ve referenced (but refuse to state) turns out to be merely extending the 2019 Defensive Player of the Year? Restructuring an extension for an elite player like this hardly qualifies as some big, bad Les Sneed approach of aggressively trying to win now. In 2020 they were not suffering from severe cap issues (contracts could have been easily backloaded to 2021) and there was very little dead cap problem besides the one they created by foolishly not extending Brady.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Veterans are more knowledgeable than rookies... that doesn't need evidence.

And if you want to die on that hill, have at it... just dumb.

You claimed there was evidence.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Many on this forum want BB to be fired. Only one way that happens...........

And that is?

Part of me wants to see BB go, only because it will end this freaking drama that has been ruining the fun of the game for 6 years now.

If he doesn't make the playoffs, it's time for him to go. This team is built straight out of the 90's predicated on the ground game or "clock ball" and hoping to at least slow down the opposition enough. Bill used to be ahead of the curve with other teams chasing him, but it seems like for many years he's just content being the HC of the Pats. The innovation seems to be gone.

My thoughts, if this year is really "playoff win or bust", fire the man now. It's not a realistic expectation given the state of the roster and the current AFC competition. Keeping him around when the expectation is unattainable is wasting a year.

Bill is the GM, so he's in total control of the roster. He can't blame anyone but himself if they don't make the playoffs this season.

 

[Wozzy]

Nice lie. The 2020 cap was around $200M and the Patriots had $24M in dead cap. Had they extended Brady before FA they would have avoided 13.5M of that bringing it to under 11M, so it’s closer to 5% of the cap and not 25% when you use real data and remove the circular Brady reference (they had so much dead cap they couldn’t sign Brady/ they had so much dead cap because they didn’t sign Brady).

They still would have paid him but it would not be Dead Cap and could have been deferred to 2021…however they needed that $25M in money for 350 yard, non-blocking TE Jonnu Smith and buy high Nelson Agholor.

I already mentioned the Antonio Brown situation which was unforeseen and I believe they recouped some of that. Other than that you’re looking at a bunch of small, standard cap charges under $2M.

Now that you’ve been debunked (again) I’m guessing you’ll continue with the same fake narrative.

Brady's dead cap wouldn't have disappeared genius, it would have been absorbed into his new deal and added to his total cap hit. Cap doesn't disappear until it's paid off or traded.

Also Brady, AB and Bennett's cap was for their 2019 salaries, so they pushed that debt a year forward just so they could operate in 2019... but you don't see where this cap debt was a problem?

The 2020 salary cap was $198,200,000, the Patriot's dead cap was $31,129,552, Gilmore's cap hit was $23,639,584. The grand total of the dead cap and Gilmore's cap hit was 54.7 Million... so more than a quarter of the 2020 salary cap by over five million.

I wasn't wrong, in fact I was underselling how much of their cap was spent. Your math stinks.

 

[Wozzy]

So these many aggressive, championship window maneuvering moves you’ve referenced (but refuse to state) turns out to be merely extending the 2019 Defensive Player of the Year? Restructuring an extension for an elite player like this hardly qualifies as some big, bad Les Sneed approach of aggressively trying to win now. In 2020 they were not suffering from severe cap issues (contracts could have been easily backloaded to 2021) and there was very little dead cap problem besides the one they created by foolishly not extending Brady.

They didn't extend Gilmore, they didn't pay him a penny more... they reworked his deal and kicked his cap down the road.

2018:



2019:



Facts suck for you.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady's dead cap wouldn't have disappeared genius, it would have been absorbed into his new deal and added to his total cap hit. Cap doesn't disappear until it's paid off or traded.

Also Brady, AB and Bennett's cap was for their 2019 salaries, so they pushed that debt a year forward just so they could operate in 2019... but you don't see where this cap debt was a problem?

The 2020 salary cap was $198,200,000, the Patriot's dead cap was $31,129,552, Gilmore's cap hit was $23,639,584. The grand total of the dead cap and Gilmore's cap hit was 54.7 Million... so more than a quarter of the 2020 salary cap by over five million.

I wasn't wrong, in fact I was underselling how much of their cap was spent. Your math stinks.

Already stated Brady’s dead cap would be cap hit instead.

Looks like you’re just reverting to your typical word salad since you’ve been posterized once again.

Now you’re even re-defining dead cap hits to include deferred signing bonuses and extensions to rostered players. Wow.