Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[XLIX]

Has Bill ever said he gives a about Shula and the record? I can't recall him ever talking about it.

If you don't think that record is important to him, you are fooling yourself.

 

[Steve102]

If you don't think that record is important to him, you are fooling yourself.

I hear you, and I kinda agree, to a historical point. My point is that he doesn't take credit per se, he puts it on the players. Players win, coaches lose. He's never said, to my knowledge, that he gives 2 's about it. For all we know the man respects Halas and thinks Shula is a headass, to use the vernacular. Further, I don't think any players or former players have ever said that Bill gives a chit about it. I think it's media speculation. Is it possible that he cares? Yup. I think he, more than anyone in the league, knows and appreciates league history, and his place in it. Has he managed the team like he cares? Quite to the contrary, he's played the long game, as @50-yard-line pointed out.

To the matter at hand, if '23 is a continuation of '22, it won't matter, because he will be asked to retire.

 

[Rob0729]

Has Bill ever said he gives a about Shula and the record? I can't recall him ever talking about it. When has he ever talked about individual accolades for himself? Quite the contrary, he defers to the players. It's a player's game. I know everyone and his brother on here points to the record, usually followed by a statement about arrogance and ego. I think the man is a football coach, period.

Belichick does care about records and this record. He may talk about it, but it is clear he does. His boat's name is the number of Super Bowl rings he has including during the Giants which he updated in 2019. He might not talk about it with the media, but he is a history buff of the game and records mean something to him.

 

[Steve102]

Belichick does care about records and this record. He may talk about it, but it is clear he does. His boat's name is the number of Super Bowl rings he has including during the Giants which he updated in 2019. He might not talk about it with the media, but he is a history buff of the game and records mean something to him.

I don't think you, or the rest of the guys, are wrong. My point is we don't know for sure where he is on it. He has not said, and no one else has gone on the record, other than the talking heads. It's speculation by the media, and likely very much accurate, but no one really knows for sure. Has anyone even asked him ? Probably not, because the don't want to get blasted.

I'm just trying to get the team ready for the season. We aren't much into individual records and that type of stuff around here.

I think it's important to him, the Krafts and the organization as a whole, but not one insider has said "Bill is hanging on for this". It makes 100% sense that it would be important to him, but our collective speculation is just that.

It's kinda like the stuff we learned about the team after the fact. We learned they cared about the 21 game winning streak, and we learned about them caring about being a dynasty after the 3rd win. My guess is that when it's all said and done, we will find out a lot about it.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think you, or the rest of the guys, are wrong. My point is we don't know for sure where he is on it. He has not said, and no one else has gone on the record, other than the talking heads. It's speculation by the media, and likely very much accurate, but no one really knows for sure. Has anyone even asked him ? Probably not, because the don't want to get blasted.

I'm just trying to get the team ready for the season. We aren't much into individual records and that type of stuff around here.

I think it's important to him, the Krafts and the organization as a whole, but not one insider has said "Bill is hanging on for this". It makes 100% sense that it would be important to him, but our collective speculation is just that.

It's kinda like the stuff we learned about the team after the fact. We learned they cared about the 21 game winning streak, and we learned about them caring about being a dynasty after the 3rd win. My guess is that when it's all said and done, we will find out a lot about it.

The problem is for Belichick is whether Kraft cares more about the benefits of getting Belichick the record or wanting to make the Patriots a top organization in the league again more. It is conceivable that it could take Belichick three more seasons to get the record. He is 19 wins away. Two more eight wins or less seasons in a row would push Belichick getting that record out until 2025. Robert Kraft will be 85 in 2025. Is he going to put up with another season or two of average to mediocrity just to get Belichick the record?

And if he does hold onto Belichick until 2025 to break the record, does the fanbase turn on him, Belichick, and the team before then? You cannot put his record above everything else.

Hopefully Belichick turns it around and gets 10-12 wins and getting the record next year will be easy and keeping him around will be justified beyond what he has done in the past. But if they have another 8 win season, you gotta think about moving on damn the record.

 

[borg]

My point is that he doesn't take credit per se,

He demands the highest salary in the coaching ranks

he puts it on the players.

He has never approved a player's yearly wage that is higher than his

 

[Steve102]

The problem is for Belichick is whether Kraft cares more about the benefits of getting Belichick the record or wanting to make the Patriots a top organization in the league again more. It is conceivable that it could take Belichick three more seasons to get the record. He is 19 wins away. Two more eight wins or less seasons in a row would push Belichick getting that record out until 2025. Robert Kraft will be 85 in 2025. Is he going to put up with another season or two of average to mediocrity just to get Belichick the record?

And if he does hold onto Belichick until 2025 to break the record, does the fanbase turn on him, Belichick, and the team before then? You cannot put his record above everything else.

Hopefully Belichick turns it around and gets 10-12 wins and getting the record next year will be easy and keeping him around will be justified beyond what he has done in the past. But if they have another 8 win season, you gotta think about moving on damn the record.

Agreed, as I said a couple posts above, a continuation of '22 sends him out to pasture, as it should.

 

[203Pat]

I've always thought we will know when Bill hits his expiry date as HC of the NEP... that's when he loses the locker room and the team implodes. We might even hear leaders like Slater and Mac speak up publicly about the way things are being run on the team. That's how Coughlin got turfed by the Giants.

Last season was the first time I got some sense of that happening in Foxboro. Let's see if it continues this season.

Last year wasn't too far off. Bourne openly critiquing the offense in the media. Mac swearing at the coaching staff on national television mid game. Isiah Wynn basically going MIA for half the season. Trent Brown liking posts about Mac being replaced. Hell, there was even that anonymous quote from the Herald article after the season that said something along the lines of "I love Bill but he f*cked us". Bill is 25-26 with no playoff wins in one appearance. He made one of the most questionable coaching moves the league has ever seen in making a DC an OC and doesn't seem to have a direction in the rebuild. Any other coach would have been long gone.

 

[50-yard-line]

Might have everything to do with the team's failures drafting players who are worthy of 2nd contracts.

And ask Robert how fantastic a job Bill did buying expensive groceries at the FA market in '21.

Yes, please do accentuate the two misses (which were mostly on NOT USING the two guys correctly at all - but that's another topic) and IGNORE the hits - Judon, Mills, Bourne, Godchaux, Henry, Andrews, Karras...

Brotherhood of the miserable.

 

[50-yard-line]

They are in "fantastic shape financially" because the team has literally zero talent on the books for 2025. No offensive starter sans Cole Strange, only Gonzalez and maybe Jack Jones if he's not in legal trouble on defense. That's it. They have nothing on the books and will likely need a 2021 style FA splurge to completely rebuild the team as soon as next off-season. That's not doing a good job, that's not having young players worth keeping.

Bull - they have several players on the roster right now who will be around for 2025.
Zero talent on the books, please.

 

[203Pat]

Yes, please do accentuate the two misses (which were mostly on NOT USING the two guys correctly at all - but that's another topic) and IGNORE the hits - Judon, Mills, Bourne, Godchaux, Henry, Andrews, Karras...

Brotherhood of the miserable.

The only one I would call a “hit” is Judon. The rest are average starters.

 

[203Pat]

Bull - they have several players on the roster right now who will be around for 2025.
Zero talent on the books, please.

Who?

 

[VrabelJr]

The only way BB’s seat is warm is if RK has about six brain cells left. BB has been the coach of the Pats for so long that I can’t tell whether I’m a BB fan or a Pats fan.

 

[RodThePat]

Bull - they have several players on the roster right now who will be around for 2025.
Zero talent on the books, please.

Name them. Who's under contract of any consequence aside from the players I cited? Who's a lock to be on this team in 2025 that's a piece you're excited to build around? Not even Mac has a contract for 2025.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Name them. Who's under contract of any consequence aside from the players I cited? Who's a lock to be on this team in 2025 that's a piece you're excited to build around? Not even Mac has a contract for 2025.

It's amazing, I think only a small majority of Pats fans see the talent when most fans have no idea who the majority of these players are. They'll name guys that are fine complementary players as of right now. For 2024, Uche is someone I have my eye on to see if he duplicates 2022. Dugger won't command much so the Pats should retain both of them. If the rookies show anything, both David Andrews and Owenu will hit the bricks.

 

[RodThePat]

It's amazing, I think only a small majority of Pats fans see the talent when most fans have no idea who the majority of these players are. They'll name guys that are fine complementary players as of right now. For 2024, Uche is someone I have my eye on to see if he duplicates 2022. Dugger won't command much so the Pats should retain both of them. If the rookies show anything, both David Andrews and Owenu will hit the bricks.

But if they re-sign some of those guys then their financials all of a sudden aren't in such a pristine condition. That's the thing. They have a lot of money to spend in the upcoming seasons because basically no one is making big money into 24/25 as it stands right now and they haven't borrowed from future years to acquire talent for this year's team. It's as much a blessing as it is a reflection of a "meh" roster whose best players are all going to hit the market in the next off-season or two. There's no Jalen Hurts/AJ Brown combo signed for 3+ years here. Everything is in flux. You may very well look back in 2025 and realize the Patriots went through a wholesale rebuild compared to even the 2023 roster.

 

[TheRainMaker]

He has never approved a player's yearly wage that is higher than his

Looked back at Tom's salaries over his career. He made $23M for one season in 2019. The rest has been less than $20M which is Bill's salary. That is bad. But as I've mentioned before, Tom seems like a pretty bad negotiator. And as Andrew Brandt has responded as to why Tom kept taking "hometown discounts", he said Tom doesn't seem to understand how the salary cap works. He used Brett Favre as an example where he was the highest paid QB in the league at the time and Brandt had no problem figuring out how the Packers could sign other players to fill out the roster. He ended by saying Tom only helped Bob Kraft by taking less and not the salary cap.

 

[TheRainMaker]

They are in "fantastic shape financially" because the team has literally zero talent on the books for 2025. No offensive starter sans Cole Strange, only Gonzalez and maybe Jack Jones if he's not in legal trouble on defense. That's it. They have nothing on the books and will likely need a 2021 style FA splurge to completely rebuild the team as soon as next off-season. That's not doing a good job, that's not having young players worth keeping.

This is not opinion, but a fact. Judon is their highest paid player making an average of $13M per year. Hunter Henry is the next guy at $12.5M per season and Godchow is at $10.4M. 3 players barely over $10M per season. LOL. The rest are under $10M. Look around the playoff teams and you'll find one thing in common - they pay for talent.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This is not opinion, but a fact. Judon is their highest paid player making an average of $13M per year. Hunter Henry is the next guy at $12.5M per season and Godchow is at $10.4M. 3 players barely over $10M per season. LOL. The rest are under $10M. Look around the playoff teams and you'll find one thing in common - they pay for talent.

The Pats have been rebuilding through the draft over the last 4 years. If the drafts are successful, there will be a lot of lower cost rookie contracts. So far I like most of the last four draft classes and it leads to lots of cap space and personnel decisions over the next few years. I do not see this as a weakness because they don't "pay for talent".

Teams only pay for talent when their drafting sucks. First posters complain the Pats drafting sucks, and then after the Pats draft well leading to rookie contracts, people complain the Pats don't "pay for talent". Lots of *****ing and moaning in NE.

 

[captain stone]

The only way BB’s seat is warm is if RK has about six brain cells left. BB has been the coach of the Pats for so long that I can’t tell whether I’m a BB fan or a Pats fan.

Surely you can't be serious.