Two Additional Needs Remain: SS and IOL

[mgteich]

SS
We often play 3 safeties, among the best units in the NFL. We worry a lot about solid backups at other positions, but here we have: Richards and Ebner. Perhaps, Ebner is OK as the #5 safety. He is not OK as the #4.

Maybe, Belichick believes that Richards is a solid backup for Chung. Even if this is the case, we need to bring in additional safeties. We need competition for Richards. We also need an additional solid player in case we have a camp or pre-season injury.

I look for us to bring in a couple of safeties.

IOL
Dante may believe that we are set with Karras, Douglas, Farris, Ferentz and King. However, it seems that a veteran OG/C would be a welcome addition.
=====
We could bring in a 4th QB for camp, but I don't see any other real needs. Obviously, Belichick may find an upgrade almost anywhere, especially on special teams.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I think David Jones is going to make the 53

 

[Ring 6]

Here is an interesting question.
At which positions are the patriots NOT facing the prospect of cutting someone that is good enough to make most teams? Or have players who will make the team but be buried on the depth chart and get minimal playing time?

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I still think Tight end is weaker than it was last off-season
We don't know if Allen will find his hands or if Lengel or the twin will be able to play in the NFL when it matters.

 

[Nunchucks]

Jordan Richards is probably a decent backup, maybe a starter on another team. We really don't know. Expecting to be five deep at the safety position is a bit much.

The real question is who the heck is the coverage linebacker? Right now teams can go 3 wide and beat the crap out of the Patriots with a RB heading out on a route.

 

[jah]

I'm no more worried about our safety depth than I am about CB depth. As you say, plenty of times when 3 are out there, and each group has exactly 3 good players (and that's being generous to Rowe, even if I like him).

I don't like the current state of IOL depth, with the idea seeming to be that they can have one dude back up all 3 spots.

 

[Minitron]

The real question is who the heck is the coverage linebacker? Right now teams can go 3 wide and beat the crap out of the Patriots with a RB heading out on a route.

I'm amazed that you don't have a HC-Job in the NFL right now. If it would be that easy to beat the Super Bowl Champs why didn't any of the other 31 Pro-Coaches notice?

 

[mgteich]

Here is an interesting question.
At which positions are the patriots NOT facing the prospect of cutting someone that is good enough to make most teams? Or have players who will make the team but be buried on the depth chart and get minimal playing time?

I think that there are lots positions where we are cutting players that have little chance of making MOST teams. We'll see when the final costs are made. We'll see if guys like the following are snapped up with lots of offers, which they would get if they could make the roster of most teams: Douglas, Farris, Hawkins, Lucien, Waddle, Lengel, Foster, Bolden, Grissom, Kilgo, Hamilton, Freeny, Bates, Langi, Coleman, and the UDFA's. Obviously, some will get picked up. However, I think that we overestimate the quality of the bottom few players of the roster.

 

[signbabybrady]

You have three core safeties hard to ask for much more than that. Chung, Harmon, and McCourty.

If one goes down you still have the other two and just need to use a CB more for nickle. And maybe stay in your base instead of going with the big nickle. Or go with Ebner or Richards or some combo of all 3.

Only so much depth one can have and also STs only guys too.

 

[captain stone]

Jordan Richards is probably a decent backup, maybe a starter on another team. We really don't know. Expecting to be five deep at the safety position is a bit much.

The real question is who the heck is the coverage linebacker? Right now teams can go 3 wide and beat the crap out of the Patriots with a RB heading out on a route.

As much as I disagree with the Jordan Richards take, that is how much I agree with the need for quality coverage OLBs take.
Out of the top 6 LBs on the depth chart - Hightower, Van Noy, McClellin, Harris, Langi & Roberts - the only one who is likely to provide any coverage ability of RBs
& TEs at all is Van Noy, though he isn't real natural doing so either.
I hope that Trevor Bates is given a legitimate chance to show that his coverage skills have improved since arriving here. If they have, then he could replace Roberts, who almost cost us everything with his completely blown coverage of Devonta Freeman
late in the 4th quarter of SB51.

 

[DaBruinz]

As much as I disagree with the Jordan Richards take, that is how much I agree with the need for quality coverage OLBs take.
Out of the top 6 LBs on the depth chart - Hightower, Van Noy, McClellin, Harris, Langi & Roberts - the only one who is likely to provide any coverage ability of RBs
& TEs at all is Van Noy, though he isn't real natural doing so either.
I hope that Trevor Bates is given a legitimate chance to show that his coverage skills have improved since arriving here. If they have, then he could replace Roberts, who almost cost us everything with his completely blown coverage of Devonta Freeman
late in the 4th quarter of SB51.

How do you know it was a "blown coverage" by Roberts? Do you know what play was called? Everyone and their brother knows that Roberts isn't good in coverage. Why would the Pats put him in that position? Are you saying that BB / Patricia set the team up to fail?

 

[Sciz]

Who are these "coverage linebackers" that the Patriots should be acquiring? There are guys around the league that only play two downs due to pass coverage deficiencies, but who is only playing linebacker in clear passing situations due to run defense concerns? It seems that all of the truly good coverage linebackers in the league are 100% snap players that are on the field on early downs whether they're good against the run or not.

 

[DaBruinz]

I always find it amusing when MGTeich writes off players such as David Jones, Damarius Travis and Jason Thompson. It shows a huge gap in his football knowledge. Forget about the fact that the Patriots have been one of the better teams at finding late rounders / UDFA who can actually play football the way the team wants them to play it.

Let's help you out, MG. There are very good signs for the players that the Patriots signed as UDFA in the secondary.

David Jones - Richmond - FS/SS/R - 6'1 - 205 lbs- 4.43/ 40 - Played 40 games - 9 interceptions as a red-shirt Junior. 11 Punt Returns - 16.1 YPR. Has an injury flag on him. When healthy, he was viewed as high as a 3rd round pick.

Damarius Travis - Minnesota - FS/SS - 6'1 - 206 lbs -4.65/40 - 53 College games played - Started 23 games - 83 Tackles - 5 TFL - 4PBUs - 2Interceptions - 1 Fumble Recovery.

Jason Thompson - FS/SS /ST - 6'1 - 210 lbs - 4.45/40 - 6.57 3 cone - Transferred from Wyoming to Utah. He also switched position from QB to Safety for his Junior and Senior years. Was made a Captain by his UTAH teammates for the Senior year. Played almost exclusively on Special Teams both years. Is considered a project, but he has smarts and is good in the film room. Extremely athletic and people believe he could line up as a coverage LB.

 

[mgteich]

You have three core safeties hard to ask for much more than that. Chung, Harmon, and McCourty.

If one goes down you still have the other two and just need to use a CB more for nickle. And maybe stay in your base instead of going with the big nickle. Or go with Ebner or Richards or some combo of all 3.

Only so much depth one can have and also STs only guys too.

As you indicated, with only one injury, you will have to change you defense and use one of the corners as the nickel. Also, is Harmon a great strong safety?

We've always tried to have a backup at both free and strong safety. Richards IS ON THE SQUAD, and was last year. I'm OK if Belichick chooses Richards as the #4 safety. I don't think that he will simply go without by cutting Richards with no replacement.

 

[Ivan]

SS
We often play 3 safeties, among the best units in the NFL. We worry a lot about solid backups at other positions, but here we have: Richards and Ebner. Perhaps, Ebner is OK as the #5 safety. He is not OK as the #4.

Maybe, Belichick believes that Richards is a solid backup for Chung. Even if this is the case, we need to bring in additional safeties. We need competition for Richards. We also need an additional solid player in case we have a camp or pre-season injury.

I look for us to bring in a couple of safeties.

IOL
Dante may believe that we are set with Karras, Douglas, Farris, Ferentz and King. However, it seems that a veteran OG/C would be a welcome addition.
=====
We could bring in a 4th QB for camp, but I don't see any other real needs. Obviously, Belichick may find an upgrade almost anywhere, especially on special teams.

Agree, unless Richards takes a big step they are lacking a good back up to Chung, and I would like more depth inside in the OL, unless Garcia can fill that need.

 

[Ring 6]

As you indicated, with only one injury, you will have to change you defense and use one of the corners as the nickel. Also, is Harmon a great strong safety?

That isn't changing the defense. The defense uses both corners and safeties as the nickel. It's just a change in the mix.

We've always tried to have a backup at both free and strong safety.

Not really. We have typically had 3 safeties that play defense and others that play special teams.

Richards IS ON THE SQUAD, and was last year. I'm OK if Belichick chooses Richards as the #4 safety. I don't think that he will simply go without by cutting Richards with no replacement.

That could be a practice squad player.

 

[mgteich]

I always find it amusing when MGTeich writes off players such as David Jones, Damarius Travis and Jason Thompson. It shows a huge gap in his football knowledge. Forget about the fact that the Patriots have been one of the better teams at finding late rounders / UDFA who can actually play football the way the team wants them to play it.

Let's help you out, MG. There are very good signs for the players that the Patriots signed as UDFA in the secondary.

David Jones - Richmond - FS/SS/R - 6'1 - 205 lbs- 4.43/ 40 - Played 40 games - 9 interceptions as a red-shirt Junior. 11 Punt Returns - 16.1 YPR. Has an injury flag on him. When healthy, he was viewed as high as a 3rd round pick.

Damarius Travis - Minnesota - FS/SS - 6'1 - 206 lbs -4.65/40 - 53 College games played - Started 23 games - 83 Tackles - 5 TFL - 4PBUs - 2Interceptions - 1 Fumble Recovery.

Jason Thompson - FS/SS /ST - 6'1 - 210 lbs - 4.45/40 - 6.57 3 cone - Transferred from Wyoming to Utah. He also switched position from QB to Safety for his Junior and Senior years. Was made a Captain by his UTAH teammates for the Senior year. Played almost exclusively on Special Teams both years. Is considered a project, but he has smarts and is good in the film room. Extremely athletic and people believe he could line up as a coverage LB.

I choose to believe that Gilmore, Butler, Rowe, Jones and Jones are not going to be unseated by an undrafted free agent. Your choice is to choose four UDFA's and believe at least one of them will make the roster. That 's fine.

You are correct that I actually think that the work that teams do for the draft means something. When a player isn't drafted for 7 rounds by 32 players, I believe that a priori, he is unlikely to make an NFL squad.

With regard to UDFA's, we bring in about 25 between the draft and the time the roster is set. Maybe 20% (5) make NFL squads. I suspect that this number is high, since the percentage for 7th rounders isn't that high. I expect 1-3 to make the patriots. I have no clue which one, two or three. I have no reason to believe that one of the players is likely to win a roster spot, although Langi is certainly in the running, on everyone's roster.

So, no, I don't automatically think that UDFA's won't make our squad. As is the case with 6th and 7th rounder, I think that any particular one is unlikely at best.

As an aside, I think that it is unlikely that UDFA special teamer in college is likely to beat out our best special teamers (like Grissom and King). It is one thing to believe that an UDFA can beat out weak players on our roster, like our 9th OL, 3rd TE, 5th LB, 5th LB, or 4th S. it quite another to believe that an UDFA can beat out players who aha performed well in their roster roles.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I still think Tight end is weaker than it was last off-season
We don't know if Allen will find his hands or if Lengel or the twin will be able to play in the NFL when it matters.

Gronk is coming back. That alone makes the team better at the TE position.

 

[signbabybrady]

As you indicated, with only one injury, you will have to change you defense and use one of the corners as the nickel. Also, is Harmon a great strong safety?

We've always tried to have a backup at both free and strong safety. Richards IS ON THE SQUAD, and was last year. I'm OK if Belichick chooses Richards as the #4 safety. I don't think that he will simply go without by cutting Richards with no replacement.

If the roster size was bigger you could have more depth. As is the depth players at a lot of positions are likely to be better at STs than actually being a back up.

 

[mgteich]

If the roster size was bigger you could have more depth. As is the depth players at a lot of positions are likely to be better at STs than actually being a back up.

What was Richards in 2016? I think that he was NOT primarily a special teamer. he was a backup safety. I see no reason for not continuing that role, with Richards or with someone else.