Training Camp Competitions

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

It is funny hearing everybody talk about Mills like a running back. PFW claims that he worked as a tight end in mini-camp, which happened to be the position he played in college to set that NCAA record for receptions.

Now we are talking about whether he can help replace Kevin Faulk as a third down RB.

 

[rookBoston]

Interesting dialog.

The players that seem to be getting the most (or most interesting) attention:

Klecko - actually he was on oversight on my part, in the original post. Trouble is, I'm not quite sure what position he'll be competing for. Most likely OLB and ST... but he has an uphill battle

Izzo - anyone who thinks he's on the bubble doesn't appreciate what he does. He's a perennial pro-bowler, and that's not an accident.

Sullivan - this will be a soap opera, no doubt.

Faulk - the idea of Evans or Pass or Mills putting his job at risk... ridiculous. He's actually one of the few players on the O in the past few years that can change the momentum of the entire game. I dont want to overstate his ability, because he has flaws, but used correctly, he's a real weapon. Plus, I believe that BB respects his work ethic too much.

Mills - He is an H-back for us, and looks and feels like Marc Edwards to me.

Gorin - Experience counts extra. Even with big strong unproven young players in the bullpen, I'm skeptical that they could possibly look good enough for us to cut him. He doesn't cost us very much, and he's an entirely known quantity.

Claridge - I listed him at OLB based on reports that he was working outside in camp. Honestly, I was shocked to hear it, but I'm not going to question the braintrust. We'll see. Coming into the offseason, I had hopes that he would compete with Beisel for a starting role, but nothing I've seen or read supports the idea that he's ready to compete at that level. We should see him basically as a rookie on a short rope.

Roach - I want to believe, but he's footslow and I wonder if he can possibly absorb the scheme. I see him on the PS at best.

Alexander - There seems to be a lot of excitement about this guy, and I dont get it. There was real excitement over Justin Kurpeikis a few years ago, and another NFLE LB... I dont even remember his name anymore-- I think Buffalo signed him away. Anyway, my point is that Alexander's a hair's breadth away from being a complete no one, but people are penciling him as competition for a starting role? Let's be a little realistic.

Tebucky - The key for Tebucky is that he knows the D, he is an impact STer, and he's a bargain. I dont see any way that we keep a player like Ventrone or GScott or Warfield ahead of someone like Jones.

Mruc - I forgot him, and that's my bad. But, in fact, I still do think that Stevenson has the inside track over him. Remember, Mruc is a sure-thing for the shadow roster, and Stevenson has all kinds of unproven upside. Comparisons to Andruzzi are not to be taken likely from this coaching staff.

Cassel - Not bringing a veteran QB into camp would be a real statement about the brainstrust's confidence in Cassel. I'm hopeful, but I that's almost more too much to hope for.


Not getting enough talk...

Willie Andrews - there is a wide open competition for the KR job, and although Andrews seems like the odds on favorite, there could be three or four no-name rookies who could take the job. The fact that BB spent a draft pick on Andrews seems like a real vote of confidence.

 

[BelichickFan]

Sullivan - this will be a soap opera, no doubt.

No it won't. He'll behave or he'll be gone. Belichick won't allow a soap opera with a guy like this.

 

[spacecrime]

Izzo - anyone who thinks he's on the bubble doesn't appreciate what he does. He's a perennial pro-bowler, and that's not an accident.

Faulk - the idea of Evans or Pass or Mills putting his job at risk... ridiculous. He's actually one of the few players on the O in the past few years that can change the momentum of the entire game. I dont want to overstate his ability, because he has flaws, but used correctly, he's a real weapon. Plus, I believe that BB respects his work ethic too much.

Faulk has been around about 8 years, and Izzo isn't the player he was. He is not a perennial Pro bowler. He used to be.

Faulk is still likely to make the team and Izzo too, but don't think either are locks. It isn't what they have done, it is what they can be expected to do, and who is pushing at them. Don't think too much of direct competition determining a "winner." It won't be Mills vs Faulk, or Pass vs Faulk. It will be the overall makeup of the team. Think of Dillon and Maroney as locks, and Mills would have to be absolutely unredeemable to be cut as a high fourth round pick. If the Pats go with only 3 RBs again, as I think likely, it will be Dillon-Maroney-Mills IF Mills shows running ability. If they play Mills as TE, or if they carry 4 RBs, count Faulk in unless ST needs Pass.

All this is figured out by watching adn evaluating future pre-sesason games as envisioned in my head. Actual on-field work will change everything, and I can't wait.

 

[pats1]

Faulk has been around about 8 years, and Izzo isn't the player he was. He is not a perennial Pro bowler. He used to be.

Faulk is still likely to make the team and Izzo too, but don't think either are locks. It isn't what they have done, it is what they can be expected to do, and who is pushing at them. Don't think too much of direct competition determining a "winner." It won't be Mills vs Faulk, or Pass vs Faulk. It will be the overall makeup of the team. Think of Dillon and Maroney as locks, and Mills would have to be absolutely unredeemable to be cut as a high fourth round pick. If the Pats go with only 3 RBs again, as I think likely, it will be Dillon-Maroney-Mills IF Mills shows running ability. If they play Mills as TE, or if they carry 4 RBs, count Faulk in unless ST needs Pass.

All this is figured out by watching adn evaluating future pre-sesason games as envisioned in my head. Actual on-field work will change everything, and I can't wait.

That 3-RB scenario would be murder.

You will NEVER see Mills running the ball, nor lead-blocking, nor lining up as a tailback. The only reason he's being listed as a FB is because many view him as an H-back. We're talking pass-catching TE and FB here, not anything else.

And if Dillon can't rebound, the Pats are left with just Maroney - an unproven rookie. They're also without their dependable 3rd-down back of 6 years in Faulk, who brings much more to the table in the passing department than Maroney. And just because their won't be as many WRs on the roster (likely) or possibly only 2 QBs, Pass will stick.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

How many teams carry a $2.5 million charge for their third string RB? Probably zero and to say that it's "ridiculous" to think that the Pats are not interested in becoming the first team with such an expensive 3rd string RB (Faulk), well, that is ridiculous, especially when you consider that between Lomo and Dillon they will have around $8mil already tied in the RB position. Adding Faulk brings the RB total over to $10million for just three players, and that seems mighty steep for a financially balanced team like the Pats.

Pass is brings much more as a ST'er and while Mills may never carry the ball that doesn't mean he won't line up in the backfield on certain downs. Keeping both of these guys will cost less than half of Faulks' number.

 

[rookBoston]

I can name more than one game where Faulk single handedly sparked the offense. That hasn't changed in a year. Plus, he's a strong option in the kicking game as a return guy. Belichick likes him, likes his work ethic. All the Faulk-haters... I'm surprised. The guy is a solid role player, and BB re-upped his contract for a reason. I just dont see him getting cut. He's one of those core lunchpail guys that the team is built around.

Izzo is another one. I dont see any evidence that he's a has-been. If he wasn't cutting it, he wouldn't have lasted the offseason.

BB always gives his veterans that are on the outs an early release out of professional courtesy-- especially the ones that have been so integral to past incarnations of the team, like Faulk and Izzo-- to give them a chance to lock on with another team before TC. The fact that they're on the roster and coming to camp means that it will take some spectacular play from someone else (and not just a salary cap argument) to dislodge him.

Personally, I dont see how either one fails to make the 53-man.

 

[DaBruinz]

I haven't heard about the size of Sullivan's posse, but my guess is that most of that signing bonus has been snorted or smoked away.

The good news is that there are going to be several openings for beer vendors in Athens Georgia for work this fall.

Ochmed -
Making ignorant comments like this borders on defamation of character. Sullivan has not been suspended by the NFL for drugs and supposedly has never tested positive for them at either the college or pro level. And the Pro level does have a pretty strict testing system.

Its truly amazing how people just jump to conclusions and convict people before all the facts are out.

 

[DaBruinz]

That 3-RB scenario would be murder.

You will NEVER see Mills running the ball, nor lead-blocking, nor lining up as a tailback. The only reason he's being listed as a FB is because many view him as an H-back. We're talking pass-catching TE and FB here, not anything else.

Pats1 - I have a great amount of respect for you and your posts because you usually think things through pretty well. However, I think its pretty ignorant to say that we will never see Mills running the ball nor lead blocking? How do you know that? Just because he wasn't used that way in college doesn't mean the Pats won't use him that way. Case in point is Daniel Graham. Graham was a receiving machine in college for Colorado and wasn't much of a blocker. Now, Graham is one of the best blockers in the league. We could very well see Mills lining up as the H-Back to lead block.

And if Dillon can't rebound, the Pats are left with just Maroney - an unproven rookie. They're also without their dependable 3rd-down back of 6 years in Faulk, who brings much more to the table in the passing department than Maroney. And just because their won't be as many WRs on the roster (likely) or possibly only 2 QBs, Pass will stick.

How do you know that Faulk brings much more to the passing game than Maroney? Again, just because Minnesota didn't pass much to their RBs (they didn't pass much at all, actually), doesn't meant that Maroney won't be a good pass-catcher out of the backfield.

 

[pats1]

Pats1 - I have a great amount of respect for you and your posts because you usually think things through pretty well. However, I think its pretty ignorant to say that we will never see Mills running the ball nor lead blocking? How do you know that? Just because he wasn't used that way in college doesn't mean the Pats won't use him that way. Case in point is Daniel Graham. Graham was a receiving machine in college for Colorado and wasn't much of a blocker. Now, Graham is one of the best blockers in the league. We could very well see Mills lining up as the H-Back to lead block.

How do you know that Faulk brings much more to the passing game than Maroney? Again, just because Minnesota didn't pass much to their RBs (they didn't pass much at all, actually), doesn't meant that Maroney won't be a good pass-catcher out of the backfield.

You're completely right. We don't know anything about the rookies right now. They don't have a track record in the area (I really can't see Mills as anything more than an emergency rusher, though), and thus they can't be totally counted on as rookies. They have potential to do anything or be shaped into anything at this point, but that's no reason to unseat proven veterans who, odds are, are and still will be in the future better in those specific areas than the rookies.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Yo Dabruinz, thanks for being the PC police.

However as part of my job, producing college football games for broadcast television, I had the misfortune of meeting Sullivan while he was still in college, both on the field and off the field.

Trust me, once again you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I haven't heard about the size of Sullivan's posse, but my guess is that most of that signing bonus has been snorted or smoked away.

The good news is that there are going to be several openings for beer vendors in Athens Georgia for work this fall.

I'm sure you know a lot more about Sullivan than I do, but what I was thinking is this.

Ricky Williams has just received an $8 million payment. He doesn't like playing football any more, would like to do something else, so he "retires". Suddenly, the team wants its money back. Now, if Sullivan were in the same position (and not stupid) he could put in zero effort and wait till his team cuts him. New Orleans almost did -- they traded him to us at a huge loss -- but he's still with the Pats. All he needs to do now is get cut and he has his money.

It amazes me that there is anyone out there for whom $10 million is not enough money. But, of course, there are those who can p*ss any given amount against the wall ...

 

[DaBruinz]

Yo Dabruinz, thanks for being the PC police.

However as part of my job, producing college football games for broadcast television, I had the misfortune of meeting Sullivan while he was still in college, both on the field and off the field.

Trust me, once again you don't know what you are talking about.

It wasn't about being PC, but that is besides the point.

As for you job, you seem to fit right in with sports reporters. Ones like Ron Borges and Bob Ryan. Keep up the good work.

 

[shakadave]

Re: The big 3: OT, NT, ILB

OT: Let's assume we all write in Light and Kaczur as starters. Rook also has Gorin as a lock, which is understandable -- he's the sole veteran and has played in 25 games for the Patriots in the past 2 seasons. But has he ever faced competition like this in camp? O'Callaghan is a highly touted draft pick, and the kind of true road-grader who could make a significant difference on short-yardage downs. He's the rawest OT on the roster, but a probable keeper as a project with major upside at either RG or RT. Britt, meanwhile, is a smart pass blocker with a great frame. If the team thinks he's a legitimate prospect to play LT, that might get him the nod over Gorin's experience.

Right. I think we've seen Gorin's ceiling. Adequate fill-in, but we're looking for the hope of something special. Enter O'Callaghan.

NT: Wilfork, check. After that is wide open. As others have noted, Mike Wright appears to be heading outside to DE (which makes that position a little murkier). But I can make a case for any of Sullivan, Smith or Thomas as the leading NT candidate. I have a feeling that the survivor of that group will turn out to be a very pleasant surprise.

In my mind Sullivan is already a bust in NE. Major surprise if he makes the team. And if you've been reading all the obscure LeKevin Smith articles, it's hard not to see him as a Patriots-type player and one who can spell Wilfork for 14 plays a game in 2007.

ILB: Rook has pencilled in Bruschi, Beisel, Izzo and Davis, which is probably my #1 disagreement out of his whole projection. That leaves you with Beisel as the only player under the age of 32, and more importantly NO legitimate backup ILB. One of the young guys has to make the roster at this position. It may be as simple as shifting Claridge's name from the OLB to ILB column, but if some of the kids show up big in camp this could be the year we say goodbye to Don Davis.

We may have 3 LBs on the practice squad this year!

I also think we should carry a 4th RB (and it will never be Evans --- everybody needs to just flush that name out of their heads) and "waste" a roster spot by having 4 RBs. Then if Dillon gets injured, great, we've still got 3. If Dillon never gets injured, great, we go to the Super Bowl!

. . . . .

 

[RoughingthePasser]

The snow angel is a lock. One or both of Mills or Thomas may earn the designation as emergency LS with the goal of never seeing them lined up in that awkward position. Or flumoxing a rookies kicks.

I disagree with letting Patrick Pass go.
He's a solid player.

 

[gomezcat]

It's a great thread and I can't think of much to add. One thing I would say, though, is that we shouldn't write Sullivan off just yet. I haven't seen much of the guy but the Patriots must have seen something in him to bring him here. Yes, his conditioning isn't the best, but then there does seem to be an increasing trend for 3-4 NTs who are big, wide bodied but also fat. Remember Traylor and Washington.
BTW, Flutie will un-retire, take the punter and the kicker spots and allow Klecko on to the roster!