Trading Up for Robert Quinn Bandwagon

[Patriot Missile]

As much as Id love to have Woodley or Hali on this team I don't think BB likes paying that much for a LB. Woodley would be sick here though.

ehhh...you never know with BB. You may be right, but every few years he does break open the piggy bank and suprise us via Adalius Thomas or Rosevelt Colvin. Again...doubtful as you say,but not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[MaineMan]

ehhh...you never know with BB. You may be right, but every few years he does break open the piggy bank and suprise us via Adalius Thomas or Rosevelt Colvin. Again...doubtful as you say,but not out of the realm of possibility.

Actually, having shed several 2nd-contract veterans over the past couple years and exchanged them for relatively inexpensive guys, the Pats payroll is the lowest it's been in awhile. I think the bank vault door may be open on the Pats side.

From Woodley's perspective, he now has two AFC Championships on his resume and a Superbowl ring with the Steelers and is on his way to the big dance for a second time. However, he's got to know that he's part of a front seven that's getting pretty old all at once, whereas the Pats defense is young, talented and coming on. It's just missing a piece or three and he could be one of those pieces. The quest/possibility for more Championships could easily outweigh any Steeler loyalty if the money is decent.

I wasn't so hot on picking up Peppers last season, but Woodley is a potential FA signing I could get on board with. OTOH, if the Steelers were to tag him, all bets are off.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'd be all in on Woodley. He'd be perfect in our scheme and uniform. Hali would be ok too.But your right, I'm not giving 2 1sts for anyone. As far as myself, I would give a 1st and 3rd.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Actually, having shed several 2nd-contract veterans over the past couple years and exchanged them for relatively inexpensive guys, the Pats payroll is the lowest it's been in awhile. I think the bank vault door may be open on the Pats side.

From Woodley's perspective, he now has two AFC Championships on his resume and a Superbowl ring with the Steelers and is on his way to the big dance for a second time. However, he's got to know that he's part of a front seven that's getting pretty old all at once, whereas the Pats defense is young, talented and coming on. It's just missing a piece or three and he could be one of those pieces. The quest/possibility for more Championships could easily outweigh any Steeler loyalty if the money is decent.

I wasn't so hot on picking up Peppers last season, but Woodley is a potential FA signing I could get on board with. OTOH, if the Steelers were to tag him, all bets are off.

Actually the steelers have an excellent mix of vet leadership and young talent on not only the front 7 but the entire defense. Would love to have Woodley though.

 

[fester]

Actually, the Steelers are getting old on defense:
Polamalu is 30+
Harrison is 30+
Farrior is 30+
Hampton is 30+
A. Smith is 30+
Keisel is 30+

Of the Steelers's defensive starters, only three are first contract players (Woodley, Timmons and Ziggy Hood), the other starters (B. McFadden, Clark, Ike Taylor) are in the second half of their second deals.

The Steelers are fairly young on offense, but the defense is old right now.

 

[DW Toys]

I think Von Miller is the guy to move up for, far more productive player, though his size might keep it from happening.

Have to agree. The only special LB I see is Miller. Slightly smaller? 6'3" 237lb is not that small for an OLB. When you look at some very successful LBs in this league and even in our system including Bruschi who was what, 6'1"and 240, I think Miller changes our whole defense to attack more. He is only slightly smaller than the Colts Mathis who plays ...DE!
Harrison is 6'0"' and 242lbs. Fletcher is 5'10" and 245 and he is a Pro Bowl MLB. The Miller is too small stuff is not reasonable.
Our own Gary Guyton is 6'2" and 245, a whole whopping 8 lbs more.
I would take him over Quinn and he is very intelligent as well. I can see Mayo, Spikes and Miller with (Cunningham?) as a very young and perhaps the most talented LB core in the NFL in the future.
Miller proved he could cover and will run in the high 4.5 low 4.6 range at the combine.

I do agree that at least one of our OLB guys needs to be a McGinnest type in size over the TE. You can't have two edge guys that small.
What was the best way to beat LT (Taylor)? Run at him and he was a bigger OLB.Why, because he pursued well as did the late Derrick Thomas. Miller is that type. He will make his living rushing like Harrison but will be much quicker coming off the back side Coverage might be an acquired taste for him.

Give me Miller, Cameron Jordan and either Kerrigan or Watts. Baylor G Danny Watkins in the second round late, the Badgers John Moffit at C in the Third (Watkins and Moffit are tough guys) and then perhaps a Pierre Thomas and Champ Bailey in FA. Then send a late pick for Chad Johnson or take back Stallworth just to tweak the "O" WR group and that is all you need if you can resign Mankins.

Yes If you trade up you will lose a top pick so consider that.

In my most desired scenario, actually send a few to the Cards with Tate for Fitzgerald and you still have enough picks to get two or three of those above.
DW Toys

 

[Warren94]

Who is available later in the draft that fits our scheme at OLB?
Kerrigan - 4-3 DE, cant cover or play in space
A. Smith - Even more raw then Quinn, cant defend run or set edge
Houston - Cant play the run or set the edge, looks smaller then his measureables indicate
Beal - doesnt have one NFL skill


I agree with you on Houston and Smith. Beal would be ideal next to Mayo in the 3/4 scheme. Kerrigan is a 3/4 DE and does more of an adequate job at Purdue...

 

[fester]

Have to agree. The only special LB I see is Miller. Slightly smaller? 6'3" 237lb is not that small for an OLB. When you look at some very successful LBs in this league and even in our system including Bruschi who was what, 6'1"and 240, I think Miller changes our whole defense to attack more. He is only slightly smaller than the Colts Mathis who plays ...DE!
Harrison is 6'0"' and 242lbs. Fletcher is 5'10" and 245 and he is a Pro Bowl MLB. The Miller is too small stuff is not reasonable.
Our own Gary Guyton is 6'2" and 245, a whole whopping 8 lbs more.
I would take him over Quinn and he is very intelligent as well. I can see Mayo, Spikes and Miller with (Cunningham?) as a very young and perhaps the most talented LB core in the NFL in the future.
Miller proved he could cover and will run in the high 4.5 low 4.6 range at the combine.

Okay, you are taking a three point stance player (Mathis) who has one gap responsibility in a speed defense whose primary job is get to the QB first and foremost and then projecting a similiarly sized player into a power defense and calling it a great fit. I don't buy that analysis for a second.

Now if you argued that Miller is about the same size as Guyton, and he has sufficient speed, quickness, strength and block shedding capacity to make an intriguing prospect at SILB, then I could see that. However, we have seen repeatedly that short, light OLBs who are asked to set hard edges are knocked on their asses on a consistent basis. There is one short OLB who is an excellent player (Harrison) and several short OLBs who are purely pass rush specialists (most notably Dumerville), but very few short light 3-4 OLB, esp. 2 gap 3-4 OLBs who should be playing anything more than special teams and emergency injury replacement duties.

Miller if he projects as anything for the Pats, projects as an inside linebacker and the Pats seem to be set there.

 

[MaineMan]

Actually, the Steelers are getting old on defense:
Polamalu is 30+
Harrison is 30+
Farrior is 30+
Hampton is 30+
A. Smith is 30+
Keisel is 30+

Of the Steelers's defensive starters, only three are first contract players (Woodley, Timmons and Ziggy Hood), the other starters (B. McFadden, Clark, Ike Taylor) are in the second half of their second deals.

The Steelers are fairly young on offense, but the defense is old right now.

Yep. I'm wondering how well their system will hold up if/when they go through the extreme player personnel turnover that we have the past couple years.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Yep. I'm wondering how well their system will hold up if/when they go through the extreme player personnel turnover that we have the past couple years.

There will be transition in Pittsburgh in about 2 to 3 years. Though I expect their rebuilding process to be shorter than most NFL teams. Face it, if you had to look at the 3 teams that draft the best in the NFL, it would be the Pats,Steelers and Colts with a few teams starting to take baby strides with the same formulas.

But as far as manipulating draft picks, noone does it better than Belichick and he has used this to make our rebuilding seem almost seemless.

I suspect Baltimore and Cleveland to step on their throats for a couple of years while they rebuild. Again though, this team can draft with the best of them so I don't expect them to be down long.

 

[ATippett56]

If you are going to trade up in the top ten, no question you select Marcel Dareus from Alabama if he is on the board. Robert Quinn is a crap shoot after sitting out an entire season.

 

[Sciz]

If you are going to trade up in the top ten, no question you select Marcel Dareus from Alabama if he is on the board. Robert Quinn is a crap shoot after sitting out an entire season.

Dareus isn't even a great scheme fit

 

[WesWelker83]

I really doubt we trade up for Quinn I just hope we do because of all the extra picks we have this year. There is no way Quinn falls to 17 with these teams above us all needing DE/OLB: Tennessee, Washington, Houston, Minnesota, St. Louis, Jacksonville.

I think in the end we will trade back which will have the local media and draft fans screaming and yelling at their TV while BB gets his guy he wanted all along like Mccourty last year. I think BB wants a true 3-4 DE and not a one gap penetrator like Cameron Jordan, Cameron Heyward, or JJ Watt at 17.

My prediction is that we will trade back, acquire more picks, and maximize the value of pick 17. I think BB's guy he will be targeting is Muhammed Wilkerson. I also expect us to draft a OT, OG, and WR in the first two rounds. My prediction is we acquire Anthony Costanzo, Danny Watkins, and Titus Young at these three positions. Two guys to keep an eye on round two are Rahim Moore or Ras I-Dowling if BB really wants a different FS and dumps Meriwether. No, Outside Lineback you say? I think BB passes on everyone in the first two rounds and sticks with Cunningham and Ninkovich. These two guys were both in their first year of starting experience in the system and should only get better next year. Cunningham mark my words will become a beast and Ninkovich is great in coverage and run support with developing pass rushing skills. I think BB takes a developmental guy in the mid rounds that he can mold next year as a backup 4th OLB.

I see nobody worth picking at OLB in the first two rounds besides taking a shot on Quinn and even thats a risk with his mediocre run defense, two yrs of experience in college, and his lack of pass rush moves. I still think BB could mold this guy into an All Pro but I see why others have reservations. However, no prospect is perfect and everyone has weaknesses.

I also highly doubt we sign a high priced free agent. Woodley, Ngata, and Hali will be franchised so forget about them. The Colts, Patriots, and Steelers never sign high priced free agents and these three teams have been the most consistent teams in the past decade. The way to win longterm in the league is by drafting well. The Patriots learned this after signing Adalius Thomas. The only other big money signing we have ever made was Rosie Colvin and the results on that one were mediocre at best as we didn't get the bang for the buck there either.

My Predicted Patriots Draft:
17. (Trade back) DE Muhammed Wilkerson
28. OT Anthony Costanzo
33. WR Titus Young
60. OG Danny Watkins
74. OC Clint Boling
92. CB Rashad Carmichael
124. RB Stevan Ridley
5th Rd: OLB Markus White
6th Rd: DE Lawrence Marsh

Thoughts?

 

[patsfan-1982]

Robert Quinn, is the next big star at OLB in the NFL and i would love to see the pats trade #17 and #33 to get him

 

[Shelterdog]

Dareus isn't even a great scheme fit

Why do you say that? He might be a little bit short (although this isn't proven) but since he's playing DE in the Bama defense-which is really similar to the Pats-you'd think he'd be a pretty good fit if available.

 

[ATippett56]

Dareus isn't even a great scheme fit

Yeah you're right, especially since the Alabama Crimson Tide base alignment is the 3-4 defense.

 

[CTHuskies]

A good thread is falling apart with Steeler talk.

A R Quinn or A Smith is exactly what this team needs. Both are 6-5 260 which are the BB measureables and I expect them to run in the 4.6s. IMO trading up for Quinn or Smith would be a bit crazy. Both could be risky. If one of them fell to Pats, I hope they take a chance. This would be the right year with all the high picks. IMO the only guy worth trading up for is DaQuan Bowers!

 

[DaBruinz]

Who is available later in the draft that fits our scheme at OLB?
Kerrigan - 4-3 DE, cant cover or play in space
A. Smith - Even more raw then Quinn, cant defend run or set edge
Houston - Cant play the run or set the edge, looks smaller then his measureables indicate
Beal - doesnt have one NFL skill

I think even though we may have holes now those needs could change after free agency. I think we need one OLB, one DE, one OG, one RB, one WR. At rb we really just need depth too so a high pick wont be used there. We have the amount of picks to trade up and still fill our needs.

No offense, but your synopsis of these players contradicts everything that I've read about them and what others have posted. You clearly didn't watch the Senior Bowl where Beal proved he has great explosiveness off the edge for the pass rush. Beal also showed some good moves as well.

Where do you get that Kerrigan can't cover or play in space? From all the times that he was rushing the passer?

As for Aldon Smith, your claim that he is more raw than Quinn doesn't pass muster. Why? Because Smith may have only played in 22 games, but he practiced every week his freshman year when he was red-shirted. Quinn lost an entire season of football education by being suspended this year and it will have more of an impact on his development.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree with you on Houston and Smith. Beal would be ideal next to Mayo in the 3/4 scheme. Kerrigan is a 3/4 DE and does more of an adequate job at Purdue...

Kerrigan is a 3-4 OLB, not a 3-4 DE. He doesn't have the weight for it at 255.

 

[Shelterdog]

No offense, but your synopsis of these players contradicts everything that I've read about them and what others have posted. You clearly didn't watch the Senior Bowl where Beal proved he has great explosiveness off the edge for the pass rush. Beal also showed some good moves as well.

Where do you get that Kerrigan can't cover or play in space? From all the times that he was rushing the passer?

As for Aldon Smith, your claim that he is more raw than Quinn doesn't pass muster. Why? Because Smith may have only played in 22 games, but he practiced every week his freshman year when he was red-shirted. Quinn lost an entire season of football education by being suspended this year and it will have more of an impact on his development.

A lot of scouts thought Beal wasn't that explosive. (that's my thought as well). He got his sack by being offsides. He goes in the good athlete, better football player category; it's certainly in dispute how explosive he is.