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PATRIOTS NEWS Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

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Kiki Ginsburg has the hots for TB12. She wants him in her courtroom

Some people like to pretend they are lawyers on messageboards. I've actually taken the time to exchange emails with Stephanie Stradley down in Houston for her take, and my sister-in-law is an attorney as well.

I value their opinions.
 
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Some people like to pretend they are lawyers on messageboards. I've actually taken the time to exchange emails with Stephanie Stradley down in Housto for her take, and my sister-in-law is an attorney as well.

I value their opinions.
Ok good.
 
I would not be surprised if we have a couple of posters here who are also members of the bar. It's always good to remember that even if you've done your homework you're still an amateur and there's no way of knowing who else might be a professional. So it's often better to listen more and spout off less. Always remember the truism "it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." Except here remaining silent earns no onus while posting often spotlights those afflicted with the Dunning-Kruger disease.
 
The trade practiced by the plaintiff (NFLPA and Brady) has nothing whatsoever to do with this. It is not entertainment law. It is labor law. The defendant (the NFL) agreed to a CBA that gave the Commissioner the authority to investigate, hear, sanction, and rule upon appeals of his own decisions when it comes to "integrity of the game." The factual findings in the Wells Report, or how it was conducted, were beside the point according to the two judges who found for the NFL.

Chief Judge Katzmann's dissent is where the daylight exists to win an en banc appeal - that the defendant imposed a punishment that relied on a bad analogy (steroids), that the NFL expanded Brady's offense in its argument to the Court of Appeals, and that nothing in the Wells Report supported new claims that Brady provided inducements to employees to commit infractions. Berman found for the NFLPA based on one instance of deflation in the Wells Report that the NFL's attorney's aggrandized into a "scheme."

If this were ice hockey, Katzmann would send Goodell and his mouthpieces to the penalty box for embellishment.

The two judges who found for the NFL were not ruling on whether Wells, Pash and Goodell colluded to deny Brady his rights. As far as they're concerned, the Commissioner has unlimited authority as it relates to the integrity of the game.

My guess, after looking at the crappy CBA, the other judges on the panel will agree with the finding of the majority and uphold the suspension.

Amendola and Edelman better rehab their asses off. Jimmy Garoppolo is going to need them.
good stuff! Thanks. I'm afraid that you might be right. Olsons ability to spin this is probably our best hope.
 
Some people like to pretend they are lawyers on messageboards. I've actually taken the time to exchange emails with Stephanie Stradley down in Houston for her take, and my sister-in-law is an attorney as well.

I value their opinions.

you need to ask appeals lawyers, specifically those that have a federal practice.
 
you need to ask appeals lawyers, specifically those that have a federal practice.

My sister in law is an appeals lawyer. She felt Brady might have a defamation suit available to him last year.
 
Umm, maybe you're a troll I am unaware of, but thinking judges, lawyers, cops, etc, don't get paid off in this country, is not only beyond naive, you probably shouldn't be allowed around a computer because it's clear you're under the age of 16.

Considering how willing Goodell was to lie and showcase 56 lies in the Wells Report, thinking he wouldn't grease the wheels of his own appeal, yes, means you're a bit naive thinking Goodell isn't capable of doing such a thing.

Chin's comments remain very disturbing and is one of the dead giveaways the appeal was greased.

Very precious indeed.
Ok buddy. Whatever you say.
 
Some people like to pretend they are lawyers on messageboards. I've actually taken the time to exchange emails with Stephanie Stradley down in Houston for her take, and my sister-in-law is an attorney as well.

I value their opinions.
Stephanie stradley thinks the judges took a bribe?
 
I would not be surprised if we have a couple of posters here who are also members of the bar. It's always good to remember that even if you've done your homework you're still an amateur and there's no way of knowing who else might be a professional. So it's often better to listen more and spout off less. Always remember the truism "it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." Except here remaining silent earns no onus while posting often spotlights those afflicted with the Dunning-Kruger disease.
Good advice.

I've always made it clear that IANAL, but I am deeply plugged into the legal and political worlds in NY and Boston (much less in DC these days). I've known one SCOTUS Justice for over 25 years and have friends that are very close to others. I have more friends than I can count who have clerked for Supreme Court Justices. To a person, they don't say a word about what they are told by their boss occurs after the door to the Justices Conference Room is closed on Wednesday and Friday mornings, or in Chambers, but it is possible to get a sense of how their world works.

I was fortunate to be able to get a read on Judge Berman from people I know, including some in the media, last year and pretty well nailed his profile out here a few days after he was named. Dumb luck that it turned out I was on the money when he issued his ruling, but people seem to listen when I write about this stuff. I try to be straight about what I know and where I'm just guessing. I don't claim to be infallible, but I can tell when people have no idea what they are talking about.

Quantum has been particularly insightful and a wealth of information in this and other threads; he seems to know a lot more than I do. There have been others as well who have provided a lot of information and insight.

It's hard not to call out some of the uninformed nonsense that gets put forth out here, but your reference to Dunning-Kruger is a good reminder of what is going on in some cases. The people who say that Chin and/or Parker were "bribed" or "greased" are just embarrassing themselves; they're trying to blame Chin for Kessler's lack of preparation and for throwing up all over himself in the hearing. The greatest irony, of course, is when some of the most delusional and truly naive accuse those of us who actually know what we are talking about of being "naive." Gives me a chuckle every time.

So, I've pretty well said what I think in other posts in this thread and won't go into the details again, but here's where I come down:

I think there is a 50--50 chance that the NFLPA will get an en banc review (high odds given the track record of CA2), should Olson formally seek such (which as of noon today he has not yet done), partially out of deference to Chief Judge Katzmann, partially out of respect for Olson and partially because it was a split decision, making it 2--2 among the Federal Judges who have heard the case.

I think it's very unlikely but not impossible that the NFLPA would prevail in that review. The majority opinion is clear: " The basic principle driving both our analysis and our conclusion is well established: a federal court’s review of labor arbitration awards is narrowly circumscribed and highly deferential—indeed, among the most deferential in the law." (it goes on from there; you can read it for yourselves)

Katzmann, in his dissent, clearly argues that: "When the Commissioner, acting in his capacity as an arbitrator, changes the factual basis for the disciplinary action after the appeal hearing concludes, he undermines the fair notice for which the Association bargained, deprives the player of an opportunity to confront the case against him, and, it follows, exceeds his limited authority under the CBA to decide “appeals” of disciplinary decisions." (there's more, which you can read for yourselves)

Those two paragraphs essentially lay out the difference between the Garvey and the Steelworkers decisions. By suggesting that Goodell had "undermind[ed]" the bargaining agreement and "exceed[ed]" his "authority," Katzmann is suggesting that the NFL has violated the "essence" of the CBA and that Goodell was thereby dispensing "his own brand of Industrial Justice," which would trump the traditional deference given to an arbiter.

So, can Olson make the second view of the case stick in an en banc brief? Can Olson weave, in 30 pages or so, a credible tale that the NFL lied and distorted the truth (repeatedly) in its pursuit of Brady, thereby violating the "essence" of the CBA?

That's an uphill climb without being able to subpoena and depose witnesses, but the NFL's behavior was so poor that it is not impossible. As I've said before, if anyone can do it, the guy who (effectively) sold the legitimacy of GWB's election to the Supreme Court is the guy who can do it.

If they don't prevail in the en banc review, I don't think there's much of a chance that SCOTUS will take the case unless CA8 finds for Peterson and leaves a Split between two Appeals Courts.

In that event, the Court would only take the case if four (I believe it's four) members take the view that it is important enough to Labor Law to resolve the Split between two Appellate Courts. I have no idea how to handicap that.

I also think it's more likely that the SCOTUS Circuit Justice (Ginsburg) would grant a Temporary Stay of Brady's Suspension, pending a decision by the entire Court, if there is a Split. If there isn't a Split and she determines that it's inevitable that the case will quickly find its way into the very big pile of cases that are turned down, it's possible that she won't grant a Stay. But, I'm just guessing there.

As some of you know, in the last week or so, SCOTUS has started to move at a decelerated pace, referring as many matters as possible back to lower courts for compromise or reconsideration and, in general, limiting its rulings to cases that, while important, are primarily technical in nature.

So we have no idea (a) whether the court will take the case or (b) return it to SDNY to be fiddled with until there are nine justices (given the importance of the case) or (c) when it will issue its decision in these regards; early October seems most likely, according to Quantum.

This means that Brady could have to start serving his Suspension in October/November...or never...or September...or later...take your pick. I could make an argument for any one of the possibilities...

I have nothing more to say on this in this thread until we see what Olson's strategy and approach are.

In the meantime, we can all dream that CA2 will agree to hear the Appeal en banc, sua sponte.
 
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The idea that they didn't do a whole lot of homework in this case is a stretch, but acceptable. The idea that they took a bribe or wanted to side with the NFL over political influences or whatever is an absurd.

So, you, too, think that judges, cops and lawyers don't take payoffs?

No offense, but you thinking that is what is absurd.

We're talking about a multi billin dollar operation looking to expand in Europe and China, for chrissakes. As whole, the NFL is crapping money right now.

How Goodell looks to keep his job, keep his 44 mil per year, appease other owners and try to hold onto parity, is absolutely possible to come by way of payoffs in a court like that. Absolutely.

Chin's referencing of the Wells Report and its "overwhelming" evidence, when there is no evidence about Brady at all, is beyond disturbing.
 
Stephanie stradley thinks the judges took a bribe?

No.

Did I say that?

Do you think judges, lawyers, cops, etc, have ever taken payoffs in this country?

Answer me that first.

You sound like a naive 14 year old. Comical.
 
Ok buddy. Whatever you say.

Great backpedal.

Am I to assume you're one of these messageboard contrarians who just likes to argue?

I've never known an adult to admit that they think a judge, cop, lawyer, etc, have never taken a payoff before in this country's history, but I guess there is a first time for everything.

You're either under the age of 14, new to this country or beyond naive as an adult.

Go watch Making of A Murderer on Netflix and tell me Steven Avery is not Tom Brady. And, then tell me those cops, lawyers and the judges weren't all in on it, along with the jury, pushing money around to frame Avery yet again.
 
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good stuff! Thanks. I'm afraid that you might be right. Olsons ability to spin this is probably our best hope.

Well, since Chin offered up referencing the Wells Report (and it 56 proven lies), I don't think any "spin" is needed.

That will backfire in the appeal.

We keep being told the Goodell Appeal was all about the CBA and his powers, but Chin mentioned the Wells Report in the appeal itself.

So, which is it? Chin was as sloppy as Well/sGoodell/Pash concocting lies, spinning themselves into a web of even more lies. The absolute power argument is what Goodell wants everyone to believe and why he focused on that for his appeal. But, that does not trump what the Wells Report represents since he's ruling off that Wells Report.

This is not that complicated. Kraft, Brady, the Pats lawyers, they knew what Goodell was looking to do about 30 days into this thing, which is why Kraft and the lawyers called everything off and essentially gave the abusive investigation the middle finger.

Grave error on Chin's part and I would imagine would be referenced by Olson in asking for the appeal back to get back to talking about the Wells Report that Judge Berman didn't buy at all.

I could care less what the two bozo attorneys at ESPN say. They're wrong and will be wrong again, regardless of their 1 billion dollar MNF deal with Goodell.
 
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Just don't get your CA2 hopes up too much. According to this 2009 NY Law Journal article, CA2 is really, really, really stingy re: en banc and has been for at least half a century. They are five times stingier than the next stingiest circuit (CA1, BTW):

http://www.friedfrank.com/siteFiles/Publications/A1D9C521FD91B7F046A900FE14B8B72E.pdf

40 times in 30 years...yep, that's "stingy."

Katzmann himself is quoted in the article (before he became Chief): "Defenders of the Second Circuit’s tradition often point to the availability of potential Supreme Court review. For example, in Ricci, Judge Robert Katzmann argued that the “difficult issues” presented were already 'sharply defined for the Supreme Court’s consideration.'”

In a backdoor kind of way, then, should CA8 find in favor of the NFLPA in Peterson, and if it does so before the Second Circuit Judges have determined whether to grant the NFLPA an en banc review, Katzmann might conclude that, since there is a split between two Courts of Appeal and since an adverse ruling by CA2 en banc would perhaps fatally weaken the NFLPA's case, Brady and the NFLPA are better off rolling the dice with the Supreme Court and bypassing the Review. That would be especially true if it's Katzmann's sense of his colleagues, whom he no doubt knows very well, that he would have a hard time getting a majority to support his Dissent.
 
Can the NFL en banc the AD decision if the NFL loses?
 
Not to weave politics in but Donald Trump listed his list of potential Supreme Court nominees and one name not on the list is Paul Clement, yup that Paul Clement who is working for the NFL against Tom Brady...... I guess Trump remembers his friends...

News from The Associated Press
 
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