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Thoughts on the game and a good, long look at this team...


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Sanchez attempted a whole five passes in the first half and the Jets were a one dimensional offense. If the Jets coaching staff puts the ball in the hands of Sanchez in the first half as much as they did in the second half, that offense would have easily put up more than 16 points.

This is where you sort of over sell some good points. If grandma had a **** she'd be grandpa. On one hand, you're absolutely right. Sanchez might have been wildly successful if his coaches would have "turned him loose". But then again, he might have thrown a pick or two on a tipped or batted ball and gotten rattled. Anybody that thinks that kid is anything close to a finished product is out of their mind. He'll have bad games this year. He does not walk on water (though I know in the second half it might have seemed as if he did). Anyway, I'm sorry. I don't mean to quibble over little things. Just not a big fan of what if scenarios.
 
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Note to mods: Ian told me to repost this.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw the team as a whole look as pathetic as they did today. And, when you read this, keep in mind that I have a long history on this forum and those that know me don't generally know me to be a "Chicken Little". There just didn't seem to be any heart from top to bottom. Here are my thoughts:

1. Brady: If he keeps playing scared like he did today and last week, it's going to be a long season for us.

Coaching: I was absolutely bewildered today at our near complete abandonment of the run... again.

Offensive Line: The OL did a good job of not allowing Brady to get sacked, but you can probably contribute that to Brady getting rid of the ball quickly when it looked like the sack was coming instead of the O-Line. In all, Brady was pressured pretty much all day despite under 20 blitzes being called by the Jets defense. He was hit time and time again and was hit hard. If he continues taking that kind of abuse, he will be injured by season's end.

WRs: This unit was clearly hurting by the loss of Welker.

Defense: Clearly we are missing the presence that Seymour brought to this team. The push that used to come off of his side of the line has been non-existant in the first two games so far. With that said, I thought that the defense did a good enough job with what they were asked to do today.

Special Teams: Do I even have to say anything here. Just wow. I know Leon Washington is dangerous but wow...

Penalties: We shot outselves in the foot time and time again with needless penalties. Since BB has been coaching this team, I cannot remember the last time we got two delay of game penalties... IN A ROW. The holding and false start penalties were costly. We just didn't play smart, Bill Belichick football today and we payed for it.

Final thoughts: I know it's against the law around here to go against Tommy and agree with Jets fans, but those of you whining and complaining about the Jet fans chanting "Brady sucks" need to take a step back.

In the light of morning (I bagged out of here last night because I was getting ticked at all the negativity), I think your analysis is fair and accurate. I might quibble with a point or two (notably your view that an unfettered Sanchez would have put up more points in the first half--he could just as well have put up more INT's) but basically you're on target.

My only comment is to ask why people are so surprised? My view, stated often enough out here, is that this is a very good team with a lot of moving parts that will give rise to more than the usual level of volatility until it settles down; we all know what those "moving parts" are: TB coming back from a very serious injury, a Defense that has lost at least four prime time players who may no longer have been in their prime but who were at its core and the ongoing vagaries of injury and luck that affect every team.

I am nowhere near panic mode right now, as the early season is playing out pretty much as I thought it might (and had the guts to risk flames and to say so before the season started), but hoped it wouldn't.

I still see this as the team that wins the division; we're just gonna have to be patient. It's a long season. The combatants in the last two SB's are a testimony to the importance of building over 16 games and finishing strong.
 
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Couple Items

Play Calling

Offense- just like the Giants superbowl too little RB screen either middle screen to Faulk or on the side to diffuse blitz pressure.

Defense- No blitz pressure on 3rd and long rather playing conservative and allowing short underneath which winds up just enough for first down. Where there any safety blitzes????

OLine- Since Giants superbowl blitz pressure blows these guys up. Every nfl team will do this until they stop them.

QB- 12 has rust but expected. Mental aspect shown when he could have run on left side but hesitated and pulled up and threw away. Very telling.

Coaching- I truly think Belicheck is spread too thin- NO O Coordinator handling GM.

Defense growing pains- replacing the vets may be better by bapitsm by fire for Brace, Pryor chung and butler. Invest early playing time in season for postseason run.

Easy to pick apart but a long way to come
 
Re: Couple Items

Defense growing pains- replacing the vets may be better by bapitsm by fire for Brace, Pryor chung and butler. Invest early playing time in season for postseason run.

Agreed, BB stupidly passed on Rey Maualuga and drafted Patrick Chung, let's play the kid and let him develop and sit James Sanders, the team will be better in the long run for it.

Crap-can Dean Peas, this sit back, "read and react" defense is BS. Where is our pressure ? Where are our blitzes ? The Jets seem to bring the heat without any issues, it's a great scheme, where the bleep is our pressure scheme ? It's a passive defense and it really has to change.
 
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I guess my memory wasn't working back then huh? :rolleyes: For the record, I was talking about on this forum. But your comment in itself says enough.

My comment is directed at the mentality that actually believes it can decipher what goes on in an NFL game because they watch them on Sunday.

He did for a half. Before that, he looked exactly like what he did today. I haven't made excuses for the OL. I don't think they played a good game at all and have said so. But there were times in that game where Brady didn't have anyone in his face and only had pressure coming at him from the sides and STILL didn't step into his throws. They were way off. It's not like Brady has never been hit before. He has. And he used to step into his throws fully before when the pressure was in his face. That wasn't the case and the preseason and it hasn't been the case in two regular season games outside of 15 minutes in the first game. He still has a mental hurdle for the injury that needs to be cleared. That's obvious. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. That said, that 15 minutes in the Bills game tells me that he WILL clear that hurdle... it's just a matter of when.

Last week he was raising off his back foot and not stepping into his throws therefore not following through and that drove his timing off. This week he was throwing off his back foot alot which most QB's will do when under intense pressure. It's a means to an end, getting a throw off at all and avoiding a sack or worse...

I watched the game. Maroney was practically a ghost after the first quarter and Taylor had 8 carries the entire game. With those 8 carries, he managed to rip off 46 yards. The Jets couldn't stop him between the tackles and it showed at the end of the first half. They all but abandoned that in the second half which is why Brady attempted 47 passes. Sorry, but you simply cannot win against a defense like the one the Jets have with your QB attempting 47 passes.

Apparently you saw each make a long carry or two. What you then disremembered was they as well as Faulk and Morris were increasingly shut down. One of the third and 1's we could not convert was a Taylor carry. On two other drives we went backwards to the point there was no shot to move the chains other than passing since our longest run of the day was for 12-13 yards. I wish they would run more. Might be justification for carrying 5 RB including BJGE whose lone contribution today was a ST penalty. And it would certainly lighten the load on Brady. But the sad fact is we can't run the ball with any consistency and we telegraph our efforts when we resort to our Wham scheme and goaline sets. We didn't add Taylor to change that. We added him to replace Jordan. If we wanted to change the focus we'd add a fullback. It's not the coordinator's call or the QB's call, that's a personnel and philosophy issue and it's Belichick's call. He apparently believes we can do whatever it takes if existing players execute. I just haven't seen them do that consistently since 2005.

I meant to say that they blitzed over 20 times in my original post. They did suck. However, Brady has bailed his O-Line out before time and time again. He couldn't do it today because of what I have previously mentioned. Brady has been under more pressure in the past than he has today. The only difference is that today Brady's mechanics were off. The fact that they still called 47 pass plays shows me that the play calling was also terrible. As BB said, it was a loss at all levels today.

His mechanics weren't off. He was under as much pressure as he's ever seen and he had two new receivers and a new TE at his disposal to deal with it. Edleman exceeded realistic expectations but he still made mistakes. Galloway is tentative and he and Brady have almost no chemistry to date. Randy was either double covered or seeing double depending on whose story you buy. That didn't leave him much to work with compared to the players he was working with say late in the 2007 season when the pressure first racheted up to this level consistently. But it's easier to blame it all on Brady and say, as only fans here can after what he engineered almost single handedly last week, that he sucks and he should hear it but he'll be OK soon... Brady has had a couple of stinkers in his time here, and the tell is usually multiple picks, but he's never remotely sucked.


Brady has had many defenders in his face before. Why is today all of the sudden different? Again, his mechanics are off. You can see it when he throws. On two instances, if his mechanics and timing were good we would have had TDs. The first was the throw to Edelman which was way outside. Edelman had NO SHOT at that one. The second was the deep pass to Galloway. Galloway had burned Sheppard at first and if Brady's timing was down, that would have been a TD. Instead, Brady didn't throw the ball when he should have and Lito Sheppard caught up. The deep pass to Moss was bad in that it was thrown into double coverage, however, I do agree that Moss could have done more to try to catch that one.

Today was no different than February 2008. It may seem all of a sudden but that's just because he missed an entire year in the interim...and any difficulties the offense encountered were blamed on Cassel. What makes you think Edleman didn't break too late since he was struggling to line up in the right position? Again, Brady is throwing to a spot and at a time. Unless you know what those were you can't begin to know who was late or early. When in doubt, my money is on the QB being right and the receivers being off. Sometimes his reaction will tell you. He generally owns his mistakes and corrects his receivers. I saw none of either yesterday, probably because he was too focused on running the no huddle, silent count, armband brigade offense and staying alive. And if you think Moss was doubled on that throw you're seeing double too. What he was was beat by a CB in single coverage and he can't admit it. That's an ego issue. It's easier to say we were going backwards (provided of course you own that at least in one instance that was on you...).

Sanchez attempted a whole five passes in the first half and the Jets were a one dimensional offense. If the Jets coaching staff puts the ball in the hands of Sanchez in the first half as much as they did in the second half, that offense would have easily put up more than 16 points.

The first two JETS series the defense set a tone with a three and out and 2 forced fumbles and one recovery. Jets had 3 points heading into halftime. Had things not unraveled on ST and if secondary players hadn't collided in coverage to open the half I doubt you see Sanchez role increasing dramatically in that half. Sanchez made two throws after inheriting a short field and we made two mistakes on defense. He was handed short fields on 3 of 5 posessions in the second half and he scored twice for 10 points. ST enabled him as much as it killed us. There were lots of problems in this game and Brady's mechanics or nerve weren't among them.
 
Re: Couple Items

Agreed, BB stupidly passed on Rey Maualuga and drafted Patrick Chung, let's play the kid and let him develop and sit James Sanders, the team will be better in the long run for it.

Crap-can Dean Peas, this sit back, "read and react" defense is BS. Where is our pressure ? Where are our blitzes ? The Jets seem to bring the heat without any issues, it's a great scheme, where the bleep is our pressure scheme ? It's a passive defense and it really has to change.


We got pressure. The JETS went 3 and out and lost one of two forced fumbles in their first two series. The JETS (and other teams) bring heat without any issues because they face our OL that consistently struggles to match up physically while we face ones that can...

Posts like yours and threads like this and all the others spawned in kneejerk fashion after any loss make me wish I could arrange for each of you to be locked in a windowless room with Bill and his belistrator for half an hour. Although he'd probably end up tossing most of you out after the first five minutes of inane commentary.
 
One of my observations was that I don't think Brady mixed up the snap counts too much. He would come to the line make all of his checks and then either have to snap the ball with 1 or 2 seconds on the play clock or would just call "Omaha" which means snap on one and the defense would be ready. I believe one of the biggest things against a blitzing team is to mix up the snap count. The few times they came out and snapped the ball on one seemed to catch the defense off guard. The Jets would just give Brady a presnap read because they knew he wasn't going to snap the ball right away and then he would make his checks and when he was ready to snap the ball they would shift into a totally different alignment. Sometimes that is good to try and read the defense but we are getting "predictable" and teams know this. He needs to come out and snap the ball on one for maybe three plays in a row and then go on two or three and you might get an offsides out of it. "Predictability" in all the facets of the offense I think are what is hurting us. I also agree that our defense needs to mix up looks. We are just running basically a 6-1 defense with the OLB's on the LOS and there is no element of surprise. I like the Jets blitzes where they overload one side and just come and put pressure on the Qb. I think our pressure was good at times and we stopped the run a lot better than we did last week but we still gave a rookie Qb too much time in the pocket. I would have just blitzed the crap out of him and made sanchez beat us. Maybe BB saw the same things and will adjust accordingly.
 
The first two JETS series the defense set a tone with a three and out and 2 forced fumbles and one recovery. Jets had 3 points heading into halftime. Had things not unraveled on ST and if secondary players hadn't collided in coverage to open the half I doubt you see Sanchez role increasing dramatically in that half. Sanchez made two throws after inheriting a short field and we made two mistakes on defense. He was handed short fields on 3 of 5 posessions in the second half and he scored twice for 10 points. ST enabled him as much as it killed us. There were lots of problems in this game and Brady's mechanics or nerve weren't among them.

good comments as usual Mo, but I would disagree that Brady was comfortable in the pocket, in fact he seemed to drift out of it when he dropped back as the game went on, notably drifting to his left before the pocket had a chance to form.
 
I haven't gone through the whole thread, and this may be in response to every other thread being posted, but...

It's week 2 people. Everyone who's dumping on brady, that pats were 2-0 at this time last year. Would you rather be 1-1 w/Brady or 2-0 without him. It's a long season, and you can't expect this team to be complete this early, especially when the offense is still gelling. As badly as they played yesterday, they lost by a TD.

The 31-0 thrashing to open the 2003 season was much worse than this, and the team turned out ok. This place can't turn into a zoo after every loss jeez.
 
I see the situation a bit differently.

The offensive talent is the best in the league. We should be able to score 17 points without Welker.

I don't think that's true, not any more. I don't think it's true when looking at individuals, or at units, or overall.

This offense (incl. coaches) reminds me of the Ottoman Empire during WW1. Known by then as the Old Man of Europe, it - like this offense - was full of bluster, arrogance, stubbornness, and self-congratulation. It - like this offense - was just a hollow shell of its former self.

The final question becomes: Will this offense, like the Old Man of Europe, succumb to outside forces because it doesn't have what it takes on the inside?
 
I'll add this regarding the play calls:

The Jets were extremely aggressive getting after Tom and I thought the best way to slow down their pass rush was to call a few screens. Yet none was ever called. I remember when the screen was a staple of Weiss' offense in NE.

The lack of creativity with our offense is disturbing. We ran some kind of draw/counter play to some success (a few holding calls negated some of those nice runs). And I thought if we had some other variation of that play, we could have taken advantage of the defense because in the second half, the Jets were looking for that play.

Lastly, I hate to say it, but Brady sucked today.

QFT.

Our offense was better-siuted for PO success when - like in the Good Old Days of '03/'04 - it had to hustle, to improvise, to outsmart, and to run to win in December & January & Feburary. And when Matt Light, Dan Koppen & Steven Neal were younger, healthier & stronger. Now these 3 are older, breaking down & weaker.
 
My comment is directed at the mentality that actually believes it can decipher what goes on in an NFL game because they watch them on Sunday.

Last week he was raising off his back foot and not stepping into his throws therefore not following through and that drove his timing off. This week he was throwing off his back foot alot which most QB's will do when under intense pressure. It's a means to an end, getting a throw off at all and avoiding a sack or worse...

Apparently you saw each make a long carry or two. What you then disremembered was they as well as Faulk and Morris were increasingly shut down. One of the third and 1's we could not convert was a Taylor carry. On two other drives we went backwards to the point there was no shot to move the chains other than passing since our longest run of the day was for 12-13 yards. I wish they would run more. Might be justification for carrying 5 RB including BJGE whose lone contribution today was a ST penalty. And it would certainly lighten the load on Brady. But the sad fact is we can't run the ball with any consistency and we telegraph our efforts when we resort to our Wham scheme and goaline sets. We didn't add Taylor to change that. We added him to replace Jordan. If we wanted to change the focus we'd add a fullback. It's not the coordinator's call or the QB's call, that's a personnel and philosophy issue and it's Belichick's call. He apparently believes we can do whatever it takes if existing players execute. I just haven't seen them do that consistently since 2005.

His mechanics weren't off. He was under as much pressure as he's ever seen and he had two new receivers and a new TE at his disposal to deal with it. Edleman exceeded realistic expectations but he still made mistakes. Galloway is tentative and he and Brady have almost no chemistry to date. Randy was either double covered or seeing double depending on whose story you buy. That didn't leave him much to work with compared to the players he was working with say late in the 2007 season when the pressure first racheted up to this level consistently. But it's easier to blame it all on Brady and say, as only fans here can after what he engineered almost single handedly last week, that he sucks and he should hear it but he'll be OK soon... Brady has had a couple of stinkers in his time here, and the tell is usually multiple picks, but he's never remotely sucked.

Today was no different than February 2008. It may seem all of a sudden but that's just because he missed an entire year in the interim...and any difficulties the offense encountered were blamed on Cassel. What makes you think Edleman didn't break too late since he was struggling to line up in the right position? Again, Brady is throwing to a spot and at a time. Unless you know what those were you can't begin to know who was late or early. When in doubt, my money is on the QB being right and the receivers being off. Sometimes his reaction will tell you. He generally owns his mistakes and corrects his receivers. I saw none of either yesterday, probably because he was too focused on running the no huddle, silent count, armband brigade offense and staying alive. And if you think Moss was doubled on that throw you're seeing double too. What he was was beat by a CB in single coverage and he can't admit it. That's an ego issue. It's easier to say we were going backwards (provided of course you own that at least in one instance that was on you...).

Pots and kettles.
 
Well we disagree, that much we agree on. IMO the Jets are more talented and have a better scheme. The Patriots play a pretty vanilla scheme with pretty good talent (not good, not very good and not superior).

I don't know how people can disagree. Ryan knew this also, which explains his overbearing chest beating. That defense held the mighty Patriots' offense to 9 points our defense held a Jets' offense/rookie QB (who played only one half of football) to 16 points. Forget the numbers, which defense looked more dominant? Hopefully, our youngsters will play better as the season progresses & have a real coming out party on Nov 22nd.
 
If they are "average," I'll expect to see them ranked in the 15-18 range. We'll see, won't we?

You have to know, some of us are not fantasy footballers.
 
mgteich, if the Jets had put ANY trust whatsoever in Sanchez in the first half, they would have hung more than 20 on us. The fact that Sanchez threw the ball a whole five times in the first half made them one dimensional and easy to stifle. In the second half, they put the ball almost squarely in his hands and look what happened. The defense got lucky today. Next week won't be the case as the Falcons don't have any reservations about putting the ball in Matt Ryan's hands. And he is very, very capable.

But you are ignoring the stats, THE STATS!!!!
 
I'm sick of watching our defense play bend but don't break. It worked when our secondary could grab and hold onto WRs and let our pass rush develop, but since they made the "no contact beyond 5 yards" a point of emphasis, our defense has not been championship caliber because our zones get eaten up with no pass rush. It's painful to watch our DL rush the passer. And it's really not all on them. It's extremely difficult to first read the play, then rush the passer. By the time they read the play, the offensive lineman has them already engaged. It really isn't all that fair for the defense to think they can legitimately create a pass rush in 5 seconds if they have to read and react. If you look at the Jets' defense, they pick a gap and attack that gap at the snap of the ball. It gives the defense more opportunity to make plays and dictate.

This point can't be overemphasized, as I posted elsewhere - the old defensive philosophies are irrelevant in today's NFL. It's all about pressure. When DB’s are not allowed to touch anyone, you better make sure you aren't requiring them to cover for an extended amount of time.
 
I'll add this regarding our defense:

I like what I saw out of Guyton today. It wasn't perfect, but he made some plays and he held his own.

Our secondary has been playing pretty well. Aside from the long pass that Wilhite gave up by missing the tackle, they play pretty well. On the long drives by the Jets, they were left hanging by the lack of pass rush.

No pass rush + zone coverage = automatic first down.

Very frustrating to watch our read and react defense and then to watch an attack style defense of the Jets.

The times we did attack we had some good results. We have the athletes for it. It was a mistake in the beginning of the second half to play read and react and let Sanchez get into a rhythm. We should have applied pressure on the rookie QB.

I'm sick of watching our defense play bend but don't break. It worked when our secondary could grab and hold onto WRs and let our pass rush develop, but since they made the "no contact beyond 5 yards" a point of emphasis, our defense has not been championship caliber because our zones get eaten up with no pass rush. It's painful to watch our DL rush the passer. And it's really not all on them. It's extremely difficult to first read the play, then rush the passer. By the time they read the play, the offensive lineman has them already engaged. It really isn't all that fair for the defense to think they can legitimately create a pass rush in 5 seconds if they have to read and react. If you look at the Jets' defense, they pick a gap and attack that gap at the snap of the ball. It gives the defense more opportunity to make plays and dictate.

QFT, again.

I too am sick & tired of the Bend But Don't Break, for the reasons previously stated. I have never been a fan of the concept of waiting for the opponent, also comprised of well-paid, experienced professionals, to make a mistake. At least back in the Good Old Days of '01-'04, we had Willie Mac, Vrabel, Bruschi, Rosie (though cert. not the Rosie we hoped for) and even Phifer who knew how to create pressure off the edges. Now, we have Adalius and...Nobody.

This defense may have allowed only 16.5 points/game, but those points were allowed to a thoroughly mediocre Buffalo Billiards & a rookie QB making his 2nd-ever start with a group of less-than-frightening receivers. Let's see how they fare vs. Matt Ryan, Tony Gonzalez, Michael (Bill drafted Cedric effin Cobbs ahead of) Turner, Roddy White, et.al. Oh, and the Ravens are now scoring points, too.
 
I'd love to be able to read BB's mind on what he thinks of the Seymour trade right now. My guess is he's not quite as enthusiastic as he was a couple of weeks ago, but alas, we'll never know.

i don't think bill belichick spends much time looking back, except to study game films or other coaches
 
i don't think bill belichick spends much time looking back, except to study game films or other coaches

I hope you're wrong. Those who don't see where there mistakes were in the past are doomed to repeat them in the future.
 
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