The SB defense - statistical anomaly

[Kontradiction]

You may recall that Butler was also benched in game 1 vs. KC; in addition, Michael Lombardi said the Eagles would be a horrible matchup for the Patriots because they were a lot like the Chiefs. For whatever reason, in both games the Patriots defense was as bad as possible, and Butler was on the bench with BB believing they would somehow be worse with him on the field.

Butler wasn't benched against the Chiefs.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Butler wasn't benched against the Chiefs.

He was against the Saints though

 

[VectorPrime]

He was against the Saints though

Until like 5 minutes in when Rowe got hurt.

 

[Steve102]

 

[VectorPrime]

Good luck being on to 2018 when your superstar players are publiclly questioning your coaching decisions.

 

[tasmlab]

But god forbid if you ever expressed concerns that maybe the defense wasn’t awesome. “POINTS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS STATS ARE FOR LOSERS”

Well, in the super bowl points really mattered.

The Eagles scored a lot of points when they won in 2017, which they did most of the time. Really a bad opponent for the Pats to play stinkeroo defense against. And the Pats STILL had a lead with half a quarter left in the game.

 

[chasa]

stuff

I think what it all boils down to is the patriots defense in the superbowl was almost an entirely new scheme that they only had 2 weeks to practice.

New scheme + players out of position + backups seeing major snaps = disaster.

If they had made the switch earlier in the season/playoffs it would have helped because we would have seen it as the disaster it was and either reverted before it was to late, or been eliminated in the playoffs and not had to be embarrassed defensively in the superbowl.

 

[maineman209]

Some context:

This past season, the Pats defense ranked:
- 20th in rushing yards allowed during the regular season (115 ypg)
- 31st in YPA allowed (4.7)
- and 2nd in fewest rushing TDs allowed (6 total).

During the regular season, the Eagles offense had been:
- #3 in rushing yards (132 ypg)
- #4 in YPA (4.5)
- 24th in rushing TDs (9)

In the SB, the Eagles had 164 yards (6.1 YPA) and 1 TD rushing.
-----

In 2016, the Pats defense ranked:
- 3rd in yards allowed (88 ypg)
- 8th in YPA allowed (3.9)
- and were #1 in fewest rushing TDs allowed (6).

During the regular season, the Falcons offense had been:
- 5th in yards (121 ypg)
- 5th in YPA (4.6)
- 3rd in rushing TDs (20)

In that SB, the Falcons had 104 yds (5.8 YPA) and 1 TD rushing.
-----

In 2014, the Pats defense ranked:
- 9th in yards allowed (99 ypg)
- 11th in YPA (4.0)
- and 6th in rushing TDs allowed (8).

During the regular season, the Seahwaks offense had been:
- #1 in rushing yards (172/game)
- #1 in YPA (5.3)
- and #1 in rushing TDs (20)

In that SB, the Seahawks had 162 yds (5.6 YPA) and 1 TD rushing.
-----

In 2003, the Pats defense ranked:
- 4th in rushing yds allowed (90 ypg)
- 6th in YPA (3.6)
- 6th in rushing TDs allowed (10).

During that regular season, the Panthers offense had been:
- 7th in rushing yards (126/game)
- 17th in YPA (4.0)
- and 24th in rushing TDs (9)

In that SB, the Panthers had 92 yds rushing (5.8 YPA) and 1 TD.

 

[maineman209]

You may recall that Butler was also benched in game 1 vs. KC; in addition, Michael Lombardi said the Eagles would be a horrible matchup for the Patriots because they were a lot like the Chiefs. For whatever reason, in both games the Patriots defense was as bad as possible, and Butler was on the bench with BB believing they would somehow be worse with him on the field.

You might want to check your recollections against the historical record, if you want to build a case.

Malcolm Butler played 100% of the 68 D-snaps against KCY in week-1 of 2017. He allowed 3 catches on 3 targets for 23 yards and got flagged for DPI once.

 

[maineman209]

Even in SB 51 the D struggled. To me there need to be more difference makers up front other than Hightower. If you have 2-3 pro bowlers in the front 7 it’ll make a huge difference.

The Eagles had two Pro Bowlers on their defense, and were ranked 4th in the league in points allowed (18.4). The Pats still hung 33 on them.

The Vikings had FIVE Pro Bowlers on their defense (AND two first-team All-Pros), and were ranked #1 in the league in points allowed (15.8). And yet, the Eagles offense managed to hang 38 on them in the NFCCG.

The Pats defense, with zero Pro Bowlers on defense, were ranked #5 in points allowed during the regular season (18.5), and they only allowed the Eagles three more points than the Vikings had.

So, I'm not seeing where having Pro Bowlers made a damn bit of difference.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Eagles had two Pro Bowlers on their defense, and were ranked 4th in the league in points allowed (18.4). The Pats still hung 33 on them.

The Vikings had FIVE Pro Bowlers on their defense (AND two first-team All-Pros), and were ranked #1 in the league in points allowed (15.8). And yet, the Eagles offense managed to hang 38 on them in the NFCCG.

The Pats defense, with zero Pro Bowlers on defense, were ranked #5 in points allowed during the regular season (18.5), and they only allowed the Eagles three more points than the Vikings had.

So, I'm not seeing where having Pro Bowlers made a damn bit of difference.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The Eagles had two Pro Bowlers on their defense, and were ranked 4th in the league in points allowed (18.4). The Pats still hung 33 on them.

The Vikings had FIVE Pro Bowlers on their defense (AND two first-team All-Pros), and were ranked #1 in the league in points allowed (15.8). And yet, the Eagles offense managed to hang 38 on them in the NFCCG.

The Pats defense, with zero Pro Bowlers on defense, were ranked #5 in points allowed during the regular season (18.5), and they only allowed the Eagles three more points than the Vikings had.

So, I'm not seeing where having Pro Bowlers made a damn bit of difference.

You are confusing my argument. I’m not talking about a super bowl winning defense. The eagles D sucked, despite them winning it all. I am talking about a shut down defense. This is why I brought up our poor D in SB 51. Winning the super bowl does not mean defensive problems can be swept under the rug. The poor defensive showing against Atlanta carried over into the 2017 season sans Hightower, Long, Sheard and Ninkovitch.

 

[libra957]

It was an attempt at a bend and don't break style, except that it consistently broke in the red zone. That red zone is where you want your studs to show up. Make no mistake Butler gets burned a lot, but he also adjusts his technique as the game progress and we tend to give less big play, and by the 4th quarter, there are no more secrets. We never adjusted... 22 points 1st half, 19 points 2nd half. if we gave up 10 points in the 2nd half, i think we would have won.

 

[VectorPrime]

It was an attempt at a bend and don't break style, except that it consistently broke in the red zone. That red zone is where you want your studs to show up. Make no mistake Butler gets burned a lot, but he also adjusts his technique as the game progress and we tend to give less big play, and by the 4th quarter, there are no more secrets. We never adjusted... 22 points 1st half, 19 points 2nd half. if we gave up 10 points in the 2nd half, i think we would have won.

A bend but don’t break defense requires your opponent to eventually screw up. The Eagles didn’t.

 

[Deus Irae]

You are confusing my argument. I’m not talking about a super bowl winning defense. The eagles D sucked, despite them winning it all. I am talking about a shut down defense. This is why I brought up our poor D in SB 51. Winning the super bowl does not mean problems can be swept under the rug.

The Eagles defense was predicated on pressuring the QB with the front 7 and, more particularly, the DL, in order to cover up back end deficiencies. When the Patriots were holding the line back enough, Brady was able to carve up the back end. When the DL got pressure, the strip sack effectively won the game for the Eagles.

The Patriots defense was predicated on coaching making up for deficiencies throughout the defense, particularly in the front 7. When the coaching failed in the SB, the defense was exposed to the tune of a 41 - 33 loss.

 

[VectorPrime]

The Eagles didn’t play scared on offense as so many teams usually do when facing the Pats. The 4th down TD throw to Foles on the goal line should have been the final straw for the coaching staff that they had to completely throw out the game plan because it was not going to work.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

The Eagles didn’t play scared on offense as so many teams usually do when facing the Pats. The 4th down TD throw to Foles on the goal line should have been the final straw for the coaching staff that they had to completely throw out the game plan because it was not going to work.

These guys are supposed to know and make adjustments but they didn't. I feel we win that game with butler. We would play more man and Rowe would be the 3rd corner.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I said it after the Superbowl, and I'll say it again. With the enforced "safety" and changes to multiple rules this league is gearing towards ALL offense. Why even bother Fielding a D, and wasting high picks on D players, when offense will ultimately determine super bowl winners from here on out.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I said it after the Superbowl, and I'll say it again. With the enforced "safety" and changes to multiple rules this league is gearing towards ALL offense. Why even bother Fielding a D, and wasting high picks on D players, when offense will ultimately determine super bowl winners from here on out.

I agree for the most part. It's extremely difficult to play defense in today's NFL. The days before the "Manning Rules" were my favorite era to watch football. Too many mediocre QB's can throw for 4,000+ yards these days.

On the other hand, you still can't ignore the defensive side of the ball because of the rule changes.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I agree for the most part. It's extremely difficult to play defense in today's NFL. The days before the "Manning Rules" were my favorite era to watch football. Too many mediocre QB's can throw for 4,000+ yards these days.

On the other hand, you still can't ignore the defensive side of the ball because of the rule changes.

You can get by with a middle of the road D, and an elite offense, imo.