The Quandry at the ILB position: An Analysis

[JMarr]

Belichick doesn't care what offense the other team is running.When the 1st string has been out there,he's practicing this defense.
He's not hiding anything..he's just doing what he thinks they need to work on.

Win or lose,he could care less

I would disagree here. He is not tipping his hand. He's been working on it alot with the first teamers in large measure because he's not committed to it, i.e. still experimenting/tinkering with it.

"Win or lose, he could care less"--is precisely why he's trying out a different look in the PS. If he were trying to win these games, you'd hardly see it at all.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Alexander and Hobson might as well have applied for witness protection they have have been so hard to notice. Guyton has had impact inside, he sticks I think to the very last cuts, then it's a matter of injuries...

Ruud and Redd never make it through waivers. I bet one of them lands in Indy.

They would pass waivers to PS. If picked up they would never go to Indy. Indy want LBs that are 215-220 pounds, and fast. After all, their DEs go to 225-235#s except for Freeney who might be 250. They are too big and slow to play in the Indy system...

 

[italia44]

This is an interesting discussion. Bruschi has traditionally been a RILB or WILB. But when newcomers appeared over the last few years, he moved over to LILB or SILB on the strongside, where he could call the Defense and formations.

But that hurt Bruschi's play. He isn't a TJ run stuffer; nor big enough for that duty. We lost some of his inside blitzing ability, as that usually comes from the WILB. He lost some zone pass coverage responsibility, where his quick diagnosis skills shined; in exchange for immediate coverage on the TE, and he is too slow for that job.

But Seau would be worse, so Bruschi became the Mike SILB, by default. IMHO, the proper position for Bruschi and Mayo is WILB, (and Guyton too). The idea of adapting Woods to swing inside and outside duty is intriguing. Let him get comfortable as a OLB first.

Next years draft will have lots of big, fast, good, run-stuffing SILB's. BB will get one or two.

These are my thoughts,also.All of this is predicated on my belief that BB wants to do more inside blitzes,both run and pass.I don't want Vrabel or Thomas to have to move inside,unless it's absolutely a last resort.
Ergo,we need to develop more ILB skills with our young LB's.
I like Pierre Woods,but how much playing time will he get vis a vis Vrabel and Thomas?

We're going to get a real good indication of what BB is up to in the 1st game,as they are a run-first offense.....I can't wait

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Interesting discussion (and no flamming, trash talk, etc!)

Not having half of the knowledge as many of the people posting, I will shy away from my projections on which players are better suited to ILB.

But it is definately a concern with drop off in talent after the starters. As well as also age and fitting in many new rookies into BB complex defensive system.

My only contribution is that the 'saving grace' for this ILB quandry - is that (hopefully) the offense will continue to pile on many points each game.
Thus forcing the opponents to constantly play from behind will go along way in limiting their playbook. Putting them in many passing down situations will help our LB's and play into BB's hand. Pats defense anno 2008 seems better able to defend against pass (vs. run) because of ability to apply pressure with Thomas and Vrabel on outside and Jarvis Green from DL spot. Plus this year more speed / athleticism (due to youth) in coverage with Merriweather, Mayo, and probably Wheatley in nickle spot.

 

[PatsFan37]

JMarr, I'm going have to agree with Italia44 that BB wouldn't practice so extensively (I believe it was the entire first week of TC, at least) with a SS at ILB if he didn't intend it as an important formation. It's too many snaps when TC has too few available.

The Patriots have struggled (as all teams do) against balanced offenses that combine a quick passing game with a quick, strong RB. The Eagles and Colts can bring that kind of offense and it was heartening (in an otherwise unpleasant game) to see the defense effectively stopping Westbrook with that new look. It's also a good hurry-up defense because it doesn't require substitutions to defend a broader variety of plays. One of the weaknesses of the 3-4 is the big first-down defense that's so good at stopping the run doesn't have the speed to stop the short passing game.

For that reason, I'd think we'd see more of this defense against the Jets than against the Chiefs.

As far as personnel, Mayo has the size and speed to play both ILB positions, but he's more natural at WILB. Assuming Guyton makes the roster, which I believe he will, if he puts on 10 lbs, he'll be 6-3, 252, enough to play SILB, with the speed to shut down a TE. At 252 right now, Hobson has the size to play SILB, I'd think that's his natural position, but he seems to have trouble shedding blocks when he's not moving upfield.

 

[mgteich]

The last poster indicated that there is a lot of dropoff from the starters to the backups. I would always expect this to be the case, although I would like to have 5 rather than four quality players.

Bruschi, AT, Vrabel, Mayo

I list both OLB's and ILB's because the reality is that in case of a major injury, AT would move inside and Woods would start.

Hobson hasn't produced yet, but I suspect that he will, or be replaced by Seau. With a contributing Hobson or Seau, I don't think we lack depth. Woods, Hobson/Seau, Crable is fine. Personally, with everyone healthy, I believe that LB is a strength of this team, as it always should be in Belichick's 34.

 

[fgssand]

I love the idea of an attacking with an inside pressure "D" as teams fake the run and try to pass on early downs. Is this so called 3/5/3 "D" designed to counter that?

Thinking of overall keepers now.

So.......is it Redd/Ruud/Guyton VS Hobson/Woods/Alexander and only four make it?

Figuring the definite six are ( I am thinking we keep 10 as Izzo is really a ST'er):

Vrable
Bruschi
Mayo
Thomas
Crable
Izzo

That said I think Ruud goes (hopefully returning to PS) and Hobson - figuring Alexander & Woods make it due to special teams and hoping the young three upside be realized with a bit of playing time.

 

[mgteich]

The 10th linebacker might or might not happen. As you say Izzo, Alexander and Woods are top special teamers. They are going nowhere other than the 53 man squad.

That gives you 4 OLB's, 3 ILB's and a special teamer. The rest are competing for the remaining ILB spot and for the Player 53 roster spot which COULD be a linebacker. My expectation is Hobson/Seau for the ILB spot, with tough competition for the last roster spot.

After a preseason, I think unlikely that Belichick will give up on having a veteran backup (Hobson or Seau). In my memory, no LB but Mayo has learned this defense by the end of the preseason.

I love the idea of an attacking with an inside pressure "D" as teams fake the run and try to pass on early downs. Is this so called 3/5/3 "D" designed to counter that?

Thinking of overall keepers now.

So.......is it Redd/Ruud/Guyton VS Hobson/Woods/Alexander and only four make it?

Figuring the definite six are ( I am thinking we keep 10 as Izzo is really a ST'er):

Vrable
Bruschi
Mayo
Thomas
Crable
Izzo

That said I think Ruud goes (hopefully returning to PS) and Hobson - figuring Alexander & Woods make it due to special teams and hoping the young three upside be realized with a bit of playing time.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

I love the idea of an attacking with an inside pressure "D" as teams fake the run and try to pass on early downs. Is this so called 3/5/3 "D" designed to counter that?

Thinking of overall keepers now.

So.......is it Redd/Ruud/Guyton VS Hobson/Woods/Alexander and only four make it?

Figuring the definite six are ( I am thinking we keep 10 as Izzo is really a ST'er):

Vrable
Bruschi
Mayo
Thomas
Crable
Izzo

That said I think Ruud goes (hopefully returning to PS) and Hobson - figuring Alexander & Woods make it due to special teams and hoping the young three upside be realized with a bit of playing time.

Well Woods has been playing with the 1st team, he is a lock. Guyton has seen a lot of time with the 2nd team and STs, i say he also is a lock.

 

[captain stone]

The LBs According to Me:

Thomas - Bruschi - Mayo - Vrabel. I think we're all in agreement here.

Woods - Hobson - Guyton - Crable. Hobson should stay on the 53 to prove his worth, or until Seau is ready. Guyton must not be exposed to waivers in an attempt to sneak him to the PS.

9th LB: Alexander, only because I feel - not real strongly - that Redd can make it through waivers and to the PS. If the FO has any info which would suggest that some team would claim Redd, then I would rather see Redd stay and Alexander go.

As for the others: Bye Bye Bo; See ya later, Larry. The Izzo experience must end eventually; now's as good a time as any.

9 LBs is plenty; 10 is simply ******ed. We need to allow for 9/10 DBs & 6/7 DLs.

 

[14thDragon]

Well looking at my roster predictions.

I think Redd could make it to the PS. It is risky, but he has not shown up so much as to be high risk of being taken. I have not seen him work on special teams that much. (Might have missed it.) So I am giving him good odds of slipping to the PS.

So 4 guys on the outside. AD, Vrable, Woods, Crable

Guyton does play ST and is producing with the twos, so I figure he is not making it to the PS. So Guyton is in as my 3rd ILB for right now.

So I have two spots for Hobson/Izzo/Alexander.

I am giving Alexander and Izzo the spots. I do not particularly like it. Since I do not see either as a good back-up or rotational guy in the middle.

Alexander, Izzo, Guyton and Woods being core special teamers. Crable is inactive barring injury.

Redd gets bumped in favor of a 5th safety. Currently I have Spann in as another game day inactive.

 

[cstjohn17]

I didn't see the entire 4th game, I was in a fantasy draft and man did my picks suck...

I spent a lot of time watching the ILBs, it reminded me of the Beisel era, a little indecisive, too slow to get to the hole and in the rare times they were in the right spot they just could not hold up.

It makes sense why they have been so picky over the years to take ILBs who are not at least 250 pounds (Bruschi being the exception). I wonder if there will be some adjustments to the techniques of the DLine to help protect these guys because the run defense has not been pretty.