The Patriots offensively line in context

[archstanton543]

Today's league wide receivers perform in year 1 . Very rarely do we see a tectonic jump in year 2 and not from abysmal Lowe. Probability is not there for Polk.

Broncos has 2 late round rookie wide receivers tearing it. Nabers played as advertised, MHJ same. Brian Thomas excelling big time. Coleman doing a good job.
Mcconkey being super reliable
Xavier worthy looking solid too.

Polk is the only one who currently stinks...

Thank the gods that you're not the GM. Player has only played a couple of games in Year 1 of his rookie deal and is slow to develop.

CUT 'EM!

 

[Kdo5]

Maybe I’m crazy but the OL isn’t the weakest link on this team anymore. It is the defensive coaching and receivers.

 

[TommyD4207]

Maybe I’m crazy but the OL isn’t the weakest link on this team anymore. It is the defensive coaching and receivers.

You're crazy.

 

[Toofy]

Thank the gods that you're not the GM. Player has only played a couple of games in Year 1 of his rookie deal and is slow to develop.

CUT 'EM!

You fail to understand that we have a stud QB. So it is obvious they will get slayton or Higgins or both in FA next year. Once that happens it's attrition by numbers
Pure math. So only way Polk can be on patriots squad is on practice squad. If next year were another development year, I can tend to agree with your viewpoint.

But now Maye is playing lights out and that's disadvantageous to coaching staff, existing players and front office if they don't perform. It's no longer business as usual. They will need to move at light years speed to retain positions.

 

[jdlboot14]

The last 4 years of staff turnstyling and ownership meddling with front office (drafting & FA) has caused a lot of this... especially on offense.

However, the regression on D comes down to ONE thing - Mayo trying to be a fun stepdad, rather than the necessary disciplinarian.
All the lack of discipline on the field is ONLY a product of the HC and his lack of fear/respect from the players.
Mayo thought he could maintain the high level of play, with a lower level of intensity - you can't.
He better set a new tone next year on Day 1 of OTA's, or he's gone.

 

[archstanton543]

Maybe I’m crazy but the OL isn’t the weakest link on this team anymore. It is the defensive coaching and receivers.

They were pretty weak Sunday. They've gotten marginally better since the beginning of the season but that's not saying much.

 

[archstanton543]

The last 4 years of staff turnstyling and ownership meddling with front office (drafting & FA) has caused a lot of this... especially on offense.

I think the problem is that they haven't been meddling. BB had complete control and final say. I know people like to hang their hats on the "collaboration" quote but at the end of the day, it's BB who had the last word.

 

[DW Toys]

They were pretty weak Sunday. They've gotten marginally better since the beginning of the season but that's not saying much.

Cousins,
You have an Pro Bowl left Tackle who is only 30, a club house winner who is recovering from knee surgery going well. This vet could emerge another 5 years.
D.J. Humphries
He had a big salary so he was cut by the Cards. You can negotiate his money right now and make this man an important cog for year to come.
What are they thinking?!!!! A very good LT at a bargain to get on your roster today and get some snaps and perhaps train some of these kids in the art for 2025
Do you want 5 Draft choices protecting Maye next year? High picks or not?
DW Toys

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Where can you get good guyz now half into the season . Best bet would be to play the younger guyz and hope 2 or 3 pan out. Looks like Jonathan Jones, godchaux, dugger , onwenu and rham have regressed .

Let's see how much we can salvage from this season.

Lowe
Wallace
Baker
Polk
Brown
Hasty
Jaheim bell
Jacobs
Jordan
Christian Ellis
Alex Austin
Schooler as free safety

Are players I want to really evaluate .

Nothing they can do now other than play guys here. I'm talking offseason approach. They shouldn't avoid signing an ok #2 WR or decent starting LG because they think a guy on their roster MIGHT be able to be that. Now that Maye is playing and looking good but they need to put some talent around him, even if it squeezes a marginal prospect out of a clear runway to tons of playing time.

 

[upstater1]

I think the problem is that they haven't been meddling. BB had complete control and final say. I know people like to hang their hats on the "collaboration" quote but at the end of the day, it's BB who had the last word.

100% wrong. There was a mutiny inside the coaching ranks. You think Mayo found out he was the new coach in February? They were holding separate meetings with players unbeknown to Belichick.

Belichick was overruled on moving on from Mac Jones.

He was overruled when Kraft installed Guerrero back on the sidelines and pissed off all the coaches who were then ignored by the players working with Guerrero.

There was constant meddling.

And by the way, Belichick isn't here anymore. Guess what? There's been a lot of meddling this year, from the stenographer/lawyer overseeing hiring to personnel and coaching.

 

[archstanton543]

And by the way, Belichick isn't here anymore. Guess what? There's been a lot of meddling this year, from the stenographer/lawyer overseeing hiring to personnel and coaching.

Pure delusion. She's a team lawyer who took over from another lawyer who retired. Her predecessor had no say in personnel decisions and neither does she.

Man, I'd love to live in the fantasy land that some posters here live it. It's probably a lot of fun...but exhausting.

 

[upstater1]

Pure delusion. She's a team lawyer who took over from another lawyer who retired. Her predecessor had no say in personnel decisions and neither does she.

Man, I'd love to live in the fantasy land that some posters here live it. It's probably a lot of fun...but exhausting.

Who said she had a say? I didn't say she had a say. You're reading into things.

Kraft didn't trust his coach so he installed a babysitter for the interview process.

Coaches who interviewed with the Patriots called the process weird, stultifying, and not the type of place where you could be frank.

They sniffed it out and understood it for what it was. An interview by committee, which showed the owner didn't trust the people he had hired.

When coaches around the league are telling you this, it should be obvious what the problem is.

 

[Sciz]

Cousins,
You have an Pro Bowl left Tackle who is only 30, a club house winner who is recovering from knee surgery going well. This vet could emerge another 5 years.
D.J. Humphries
He had a big salary so he was cut by the Cards. You can negotiate his money right now and make this man an important cog for year to come.
What are they thinking?!!!! A very good LT at a bargain to get on your roster today and get some snaps and perhaps train some of these kids in the art for 2025
Do you want 5 Draft choices protecting Maye next year? High picks or not?
DW Toys

If you’re working under the assumption that Humphries will be a bargain, then that’s a sign that he shouldn’t sign a deal for 2025.

Unfortunately, the team that both has a need at LT and will be playing well into the postseason (to have film as far removed from his injury as possible) is the Chiefs. Signing with them for the remainder of the season is Humphries’ best chance at maximizing how much the Pats (or somebody else) will offer him in 2025 free agency.

 

[captain stone]

This team has struggled to keep an OL coach since Scar departing and basically didn't have one last year after Klemm ****ed off so early. Basically, this team has had very little continuity in coaches at what is often described as the tpighest unit to coach. That doesn't help at all.

2024 - Scott Peters.
2023 - Klemm then I'm assuming BoB?
2022 - Matt Patricia
2021 - Cole Popovich, who was then fired for refusing to wear masks, so they went with Carmen Bricillo
2020 - Cole and Bricillo are co-coaches of the OL
2016-2019 - Scar's second run

I'm firmly in the camp of this majorly being a coaching issue.

It's a Talent issue, then a Coaching issue.

 

[captain stone]

Hjalte Froholdt was a great pick in the 4th round. We just gave up on him too early. He's absolutely crushing it for Arizona at center

That still doesn't make him a good pick where he was taken... If Bill really wanted an IOL at 118, then he should've taken the Best Available at that position: Oklahoma's Ben Powers.

 

[captain stone]

It just doesn't seem to me that we can do this all over again. I guess free agency is the best option. But do we think NONE of these guys will become another Hjalte Froholdt if we cut bait with them now?

We took so many of them. What if Cole Strange, Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews and Layden Robinson go to other teams and become perennial starters?

No reason for any of them to go anywhere, yet. The end of TC 2025 is a different matter.

 

[captain stone]

I've been saying the same thing over and over. This isn't a contradiction.

People keep saying let's expend more resources.

And I'm showing that they brought in 30 guys and only 2 of them worked out.

Scouting, coaching, you simply cannot be this bad!

So the natural answer that people have in here is always, we need to draft more of those guys! But that's not necessarily the answer.

We All know what the answer is: Fire the two children upstairs, and Immediately upon the opening of the Free Agency period sign - REGARDLESS of cost - the Best Dam Available LT as a bridge to our newly-drafted LT of the Future. Then - and Only then - can the process of giving our OLC some actual Talent to mold, can begin.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe I’m crazy but the OL isn’t the weakest link on this team anymore. It is the defensive coaching and receivers.

 

[Mike the Brit]

At some point, we have to STOP talking about the Patriots neglecting the OL. We have to START talking about bad scouting.

You can't bring in 30 players at these positions over 5 years (I didn't include practice squad guys, but only guys who played) and have every single one of those 30 players fail (with the exception of 2 in Onwenu and Strange). A lot of resources have been wasted to buff up that O-Line.

Now, I'm still of the belief that the QB makes all the difference, and to a degree the coaching. We have seen these players pass protect well for a competent QB like Maye. We also saw them run block well last year when they strung together several 150+ running yard games. If only they could do both at the same time, and with the confidence of coaches.

But overall it is a failure. A failure of scouting and a failure of coaches.

What it isn't is a failure of expending resources. I mean, good god, we've spent a ton in draft picks!

2018
1st Isaiah Wynn

2019
3rd Yodney Cajuste
4th Hjalte Froholdt

2020
6th Mike Onwenu
6th Justin Herron
7th Dustin Woodward

2021
6th William Sherman

2022
1st Cole Strange
6th Chasen Hines
7th Andrew Steuber

2023
4th Jake Andrews
4th Sidy Sow
5th Atonio Mafi

2024
3rd Caden Wallace
4th Layden Robinson

Free Agent signings over the period:
LaAdrian Waddle
Trent Brown
Jermaine Eluemenor
Ted Karras (Return from Dolphins)
Marcus Cannon (Return from Texans)
Riley Reiff
Calvin Anderson
Vederian Lowe
Tyrone Wheatley
Connor McDermott
Chuk Okorafor
Nick Leverett
Demontrey Jacobs
Michael Jordan
Ben Brown

The last time that the Patriots had a really effective O-line was in 2021. That line was mostly Isaiah Wynn-Ted Karras-David Andrews- Shaq Mason-Mike Onwenu (Trent Brown was on the team but injured -- what a surprise!)

Three of those players are still in the NFL elsewhere and Carmen Bricillo is coaching the O-line for the Giants.

 

[upstater1]

The last time that the Patriots had a really effective O-line was in 2021. That line was mostly Isaiah Wynn-Ted Karras-David Andrews- Shaq Mason-Mike Onwenu (Trent Brown was on the team but injured -- what a surprise!)

Three of those players are still in the NFL elsewhere and Carmen Bricillo is coaching the O-line for the Giants.

That O-line actually doesn't look that great, LOL, but you wonder about the talent level then. Wynn was a bust, Karras is a marginal center and a horrible guard, Andrews and Onwenu are still here, and Shaq Mason is a shell of himself and has been for the last 3 years.

But you're right that collectively they were better. As for Bricillo, he left to go with McDaniels, right?