The official "our defense is horrible" thread

[JackBauer]

The Patriots are 28th in scoring defense, having played the Jets, Bills and Bengals. The team's currently below them are Jacksonville, NYG, Buffalo and SF, every team below them has faced better offenses, and they are all within 5 points of each other. There's not a single defense that's "clearly worse" than what the Patriots have been fielding so far this year.

It's a three game sample size. You should know better than to base your arguments based on stats taken from three games, especially when in one of those games the Patriots were up 24-0 at the half.

 

[Garbanza]

weeks into the season, 2 opponents have scored their season high against the Patriots, and the other (Jets) put up 28 on them.

They may very well be the worst defense in the league right now. Anyone who thinks that they are not currently in the "worst" conversation is fooling himself.

The hope is the defense will improve over time, and that the improvement will start right away.

The defense is hideous. Will it get better? Probably. Better enough to make a difference? Probably not.

 

[JackBauer]

The defense is hideous. Will it get better? Probably. Better enough to make a difference? Probably not.

That didn't really seem to hinder the Saints, now did it?

 

[Garbanza]

That didn't really seem to hinder the Saints, now did it?

Not sure I understand the Saints reference.

Anyway, No pass rush = exposed deficient secondary.

btw - I'd like someone to explain to me why Merriweather and Butler decided to "free lance" to start the season? How on Earth could they have concluded that this was a good idea? How could these two so clearly regress? Is Corwin Brown a moron? Is the lack of a veteran back there THAT devastating? Is Sanders calling it wrong? They look miserable out there. Out of position, confused, blown coverages, just garbage.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's a three game sample size. You should know better than to base your arguments based on stats taken from three games, especially when in one of those games the Patriots were up 24-0 at the half.

right now

so far this year.

currently

I've made it clear that my comments have been about how they've been to this point.

I guess I could just make completely unsubstantiated claims the way that you're doing, but I thought a little supporting data would be a more sensible approach. Three game sample size or not, some facts and data is better than no facts and data.

 

[JackBauer]

you're counting a pre-season game against a team we practiced with for two days? C'mon man. Open your eyes. No pass rush - exposed deficient secondary.

btw - I'd like someone to explain to me why Merriweather and Butler decided to "free lance" to start the season? Where on Earth could they have concluded that this was a good idea? How could these two so clearly regress? Is Corwin Brown a moron? Is the lack of a veteran back there THAT devastating? Is Sanders calling it wrong? They look miserable out there. Out of position, confused, blown coverages, just garbage.

Huh?

Perhaps you should check out that killer defense that won the Super Bowl last year.

 

[mb6592]

The Patriots are 28th in scoring defense, having played the Jets, Bills and Bengals. The team's currently below them are Jacksonville, NYG, Buffalo and SF, every team below them has faced better offenses, and they are all within 5 points of each other. There's not a single defense that's "clearly worse" than what the Patriots have been fielding so far this year.

Your point that they are in the worst "conversation" should not be refuted - that is not saying that they are the worst which is obviously an impossible debate.

 

[Garbanza]

Huh?

Perhaps you should check out that killer defense that won the Super Bowl last year.

oh, LOL!

The Saints defense that won the SB last year was light years ahead of the heaping pile of bunk I am seeing from the current Pats. Again, will it ger better? Probably. Good enough? Doubtful.

 

[JackBauer]

oh, LOL!

The Saints defense that won the SB last year was light years ahead of the heaping pile of bunk I am seeing from the current Pats. Again, will it ger better? Probably. Good enough? Doubtful.

Did you happen to check out their statistical rankings?

 

[Sicilian]

oh, LOL!

The Saints defense that won the SB last year was light years ahead of the heaping pile of bunk I am seeing from the current Pats. Again, will it ger better? Probably. Good enough? Doubtful.

Rankings-wise they weren't that much better. And again, they too gave up 23 points to the worst offense in the NFL last year (Rams).

The strength of the Saints defense was getting turnovers at key moments, much like we did against the Bills. I could care less what the overall stats show, so long as we make plays when they need to be made.

 

[JackBauer]

I've made it clear that my comments have been about how they've been to this point.

I guess I could just make completely unsubstantiated claims the way that you're doing, but I thought a little supporting data would be a more sensible approach. Three game sample size or not, some facts and data is better than no facts and data.

I was going to respond to this, but then I decided against it because clearly some things are simply not worth arguing with you about.

The defense is bad. If it floats your boat to think it's the worst in the league, I won't disabuse you of that pleasure.

 

[mgcolby]

oh, LOL!

The Saints defense that won the SB last year was light years ahead of the heaping pile of bunk I am seeing from the current Pats. Again, will it ger better? Probably. Good enough? Doubtful.

You clearly didn't watch to many Saints games last season. They were bad at everything except causing turnovers. And they are just as bad this year. They lose to the 49ers if not for 4 turnovers, hell the three turnovers came in the red zone if my memory serves me correctly. And the fourth came in the end zone for a safety.

So no last year's Saints defense and this years defense isn't light years ahead of our defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

I was going to respond to this, but then I decided against it because clearly some things are simply not worth arguing with you about.

The defense is bad. If it floats your boat to think it's the worst in the league, I won't disabuse you of that pleasure.

1.) I didn't say it was the worst. I said it may well be, right now. You brought no facts into the "NFC West defenses" part of your claim, yet you claimed they were "clearly worse" despite having that same small sample size.

2.) You were posting this sort of foolishness yesterday, too. Stop being so damned knee-jerk in defending the team, and use your head. You've demonstrated that ability in the past, which is why I usually enjoy your input. It's alright to admit that this defense has been brutal. The team has admitted it already.

 

[Rob0729]

The Patriots are 28th in scoring defense, having played the Jets, Bills and Bengals. The team's currently below them are Jacksonville, NYG, Buffalo and SF, every team below them has faced better offenses, and they are all within 5 points of each other. There's not a single defense that's "clearly worse" than what the Patriots have been fielding so far this year.

The Jets are tenth in scoring and scored 31 points last night (24 on offense). The Bengals are 15th and that is after playing the Ravens where they moved up and down the field and just committed stupid penalties in the red zone. Also, the Pats gave up a TD on special teams that without it would put them around 23 or 24 in scoring defense.

The Pats are not a good defense, but that stat especially three games in is not exactly the best indicator. Unlike a lot of other defenses in this range, the Pats have a young defense that should get better as the year goes along with experience.

 

[mb6592]

You clearly didn't watch to many Saints games last season. They were bad at everything except causing turnovers. And they are just as bad this year. They lose to the 49ers if not for 4 turnovers, hell the three turnovers came in the red zone if my memory serves me correctly. And the fourth came in the end zone for a safety.

So no last year's Saints defense and this years defense isn't light years ahead of this defense.

If what you and Bauer are saying is true - that the Pats D is equal to the Saints this year and last and we all know the Saints won the Superbowl, so are we to conclude that the Saints offense is vastly superior to the Pats offense? The Saints are better than the Pats right now aren't they?

 

[Bella*chick]

weeks into the season, 2 opponents have scored their season high against the Patriots, and the other (Jets) put up 28 on them.

They may very well be the worst defense in the league right now. Anyone who thinks that they are not currently in the "worst" conversation is fooling himself.

The hope is the defense will improve over time, and that the improvement will start right away.

I don't know, I live in D.C. and I think the Redskins may be the worst defense in the NFL as it now stands.

 

[Sicilian]

If what you and Bauer are saying is true - that the Pats D is equal to the Saints this year and last and we all know the Saints won the Superbowl, so are we to conclude that the Saints offense is vastly superior to the Pats offense? The Saints are better than the Pats right now aren't they?

I don't think that's what we're saying at all. The Saints clearly have the edge in causing turnovers last year. What's being argued is that the best team in the league last year gave up a TON of yards (both passing and running) and points. You can do that if you come up with big plays at crucial moments like we did against buffalo.

These days, you don't need a top tier defense to compete for the super bowl. It helps, but as shown by the Saints and Colts, you can get to the big game with a great offense and a defense that can create turnovers. The latter is what we think can (CAN, mind you, potential, not guaranteed) develop with the young talent on this team.

Also, both the Saints and Pats are 2-1 so far, so...

 

[JackBauer]

1.) I didn't say it was the worst. I said it may well be, right now. You brought no facts into the "NFC West defenses" part of your claim, yet you claimed they were "clearly worse" despite having that same small sample size.

2.) You were posting this sort of foolishness yesterday, too. Stop being so damned knee-jerk in defending the team, and use your head. You've demonstrated that ability in the past, which is why I usually enjoy your input. It's alright to admit that this defense has been brutal. The team has admitted it already.

There are no facts to cite because a three game sample is completely and utterly meaningless. The Pats stats are skewed to some extent due to the Bengals game.

I have to go on my observation of their games as well as the talent currently on their roster and their coaching staff. Taking those two factors into consideration, I believe them to be clearly worse. And that's really all the evidence I, or any of us, have to work off of at this point.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Jets are tenth in scoring and scored 31 points last night (24 on offense). The Bengals are 15th and that is after playing the Ravens where they moved up and down the field and just committed stupid penalties in the red zone. Also, the Pats gave up a TD on special teams that without it would put them around 23 or 24 in scoring defense.

The Pats are not a good defense, but that stat especially three games in is not exactly the best indicator. Unlike a lot of other defenses in this range, the Pats have a young defense that should get better as the year goes along with experience.

I'm certainly not claiming that the stats are definitive. However, using what little information we have is better than just pulling "NFC West defenses" out of our asses. The Patriots have surrendered season high points to the Bengals and the Bills, and they allowed 28 points to the Jets. Pretending this defense isn't down at the bottom of the barrel right now is homerism at its height.

 

[mgcolby]

If what you and Bauer are saying is true - that the Pats D is equal to the Saints this year and last and we all know the Saints won the Superbowl, so are we to conclude that the Saints offense is vastly superior to the Pats offense? The Saints are better than the Pats right now aren't they?

I have watched all 3 Saints game and I don't see an impressive team. They struggled to put up points in the Vikings game. San Francisco should have destroyed them but turned the ball over 3 times in the red zone, and 4 times overall. Two of them where unforced. And the Falcons had their first productive day on offense.

So no their offense is not vastly superior and their defense is exactly what they were last year except they don't have Sharper returning them for TD's. That was another thing that seemed to be lost on people last year when they kept touting the Saints offense and their scoring prowess. Yes the offense was good but the defense had 7 TD's and set them up with outstanding field position a lot.

To put it in perspective the 2009 Saints defense had 9 turnovers in the first three games and still allowed 27 points to a rookie QB, 22 points to Kolb in his first start after causing 4 turnovers and then righted things against the Bills only allowing 7 points.

So for someone to state that the NO's defense was light years ahead of us at this point last season is just showing their ignorance to what actually took place last September.