***THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread***

[DefenseRules]

Edelman has a way of raising tempers. He's a wee bit intense.

He is definitely a scrappy dude.

 

[BradyFTW!]

He is definitely a scrappy dude.

High football IQ. Deceptively quick. A real gym rat.

 

[Kontradiction]

High football IQ. Deceptively quick. A real gym rat.

I think he could stand to lose 0.3% body fat.

 

[JackBauer]

I think he could stand to lose 0.3% body fat.

Now communicate that thought in 500 words using disjointed syntax and absolutely positively no paragraphs allowed. Bonus points for using internet speak in lieu of actual words.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not even sure that will help a whole lot. He just doesn't look like a natural there. It's expected to look out of place when in coverage when you're a rookie in a tough defense with a lot being thrown at you. Thing is, he still hasn't really even improved in that area. Some of it has to do with his size, some of it has to do with natural ability. Whatever the case, his skill set does not translate to covering TE's. He's been a major reason for the defense's trouble covering TE's (short of the game plan calling for eliminating them altogether ala Talib on Graham) since 2012. Notably, Belichick has begun targetting more athletic LB's since that draft in Collins and Anderson. That's not a coincidence either. I guarantee you that if Hightower continues to line up at LB throughout this season, he will not be re-signed.

I have to think that dropping some weight would help; his main problem is that he's signficantly less agile than Mayo and even less agile than Spikes (although I like him at MLB far more than I liked Spikes there) and the 15-20 pounds that he has on those guys probably has something to do with that. I agree that I'm not sure if that's a good idea, though: he still has a lot of strengths as a player at his current weight; he just needs to be put in a position to best execute on those strengths (clearly Belichick sees something that I don't, because in my eyes that's at MLB or DE). I actually still have high hopes that he'll play well enough over the next two to warrant the fifth year option on his rookie contract, more because of hwat he showed as a rookie, when injuries didn't force him to try to be a poor man's Mayo and he was allowed to rush the passer more.

On the bright side, Mayo is a fantastic MLB. The upgrade from Spikes to him is a significant one. Maybe we'll see another linebacker signing before the season starts that will help make all of the dominos fall in place.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Edelman has a way of raising tempers. He's a wee bit intense.

I love JE but, of course, you're right. Is it one of those boy-named-Sue things? (I mean 11 is probably a tight number, but Julian Edelman isn't a really intimidating football name, is it?)

 

[50-yard-line]

I would probably disagree with the WR depth chart they posted.

X WR-Aaron Dobson-Kenbrell Thompkins-Greg Orton
Z WR-Brandon LaFell-Josh Boyce-Matthew Slater
Slot WR-Julian Edelman-Danny Amendola-Jeremy Gallon

It's pretty clear that they've got a ton of flexibility. Going to be hard to "label" these guys.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't see why Chung doesn't have a reasonable chance at one of the 2-3 backup safety roster spots.

There are six players competing for the 2-3 backup safety positions. All the vets are solid special teamers: Wilson, Chung, Ebner. Other competitors for the spots include Thomas, Swanson and Davis.

I really can't see the team carrying 5 safeties, given that they'll almost certainly be going 5 deep at corner (Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington). My guess would be that the safeties are competing for 4 spots, with the fourth going to the best ST player of the group.

 

[Kontradiction]

I have to think that dropping some weight would help; his main problem is that he's signficantly less agile than Mayo and even less agile than Spikes (although I like him at MLB far more than I liked Spikes there) and the 15-20 pounds that he has on those guys probably has something to do with that. I agree that I'm not sure if that's a good idea, though: he still has a lot of strengths as a player at his current weight; he just needs to be put in a position to best execute on those strengths (clearly Belichick sees something that I don't, because in my eyes that's at MLB or DE). I actually still have high hopes that he'll play well enough over the next two to warrant the fifth year option on his rookie contract, more because of hwat he showed as a rookie, when injuries didn't force him to try to be a poor man's Mayo and he was allowed to rush the passer more.

On the bright side, Mayo is a fantastic MLB. The upgrade from Spikes to him is a significant one. Maybe we'll see another linebacker signing before the season starts that will help make all of the dominos fall in place.

This is a more than fair observation, for my money.

 

[mgteich]

I really can't see the team carrying 5 safeties, given that they'll almost certainly be going 5 deep at corner (Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington). My guess would be that the safeties are competing for 4 spots, with the fourth going to the best ST player of the group.

I see no reason for not starting the season with 4 corners and 5 safeties. This provides more time to evaluate the players in real game situations.

After 4 games, we can re-evaluate. In any case, the decision is whether we keep 10 defensive backs in this passing league. There is also an argument for keeping a developmental defensive back as our #10: Thomas or Swanson.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I see no reason for not starting the season with 4 corners and 5 safeties. This provides more time to evaluate the players in real game situations.

Which corner out of this group would you be cutting:

Revis
Browner
Ryan
Dennard
Arrington

to make room for someone like Chung or Ebner?

Keeping in mind that Arrington has $6M in guaranteed money left on his contract.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I see no reason for not starting the season with 4 corners and 5 safeties. This provides more time to evaluate the players in real game situations.

After 4 games, we can re-evaluate. In any case, the decision is whether we keep 10 defensive backs in this passing league. There is also an argument for keeping a developmental defensive back as our #10: Thomas or Swanson.

Especially since Browner starts the season on the suspended list.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not even sure that will help a whole lot. He just doesn't look like a natural there. It's expected to look out of place when in coverage when you're a rookie in a tough defense with a lot being thrown at you. Thing is, he still hasn't really even improved in that area. Some of it has to do with his size, some of it has to do with natural ability. Whatever the case, his skill set does not translate to covering TE's. He's been a major reason for the defense's trouble covering TE's (short of the game plan calling for eliminating them altogether ala Talib on Graham) since 2012. .

This is just simply not true. Hightower has not been assigned man coverage on TEs. We cover TEs with safeties. You yourself posted stats of receptions when Hightower was in coverage. If he has been covering TEs man to man and those are the numbers they should be carving his bust in Canton.
The fact is that he has not been tasked to cover TEs, you just made that up in order to trash the player, in addition to the laughable comment that he struggles shedding blocks, which may be his greatest strength in comparison to other LBs.
Why not just post once that you don't like the guy and stop clowning yourself with making up reasons that are ridiculous?

 

[TriplecHamp]

This is just simply not true. Hightower has not been assigned man coverage on TEs. We cover TEs with safeties. You yourself posted stats of receptions when Hightower was in coverage. If he has been covering TEs man to man and those are the numbers they should be carving his bust in Canton.
The fact is that he has not been tasked to cover TEs, you just made that up in order to trash the player, in addition to the laughable comment that he struggles shedding blocks, which may be his greatest strength in comparison to other LBs.
Why not just post once that you don't like the guy and stop clowning yourself with making up reasons that are ridiculous?

We cover Tight Ends with linebackers as well

 

[Luxusdk]

I really can't see the team carrying 5 safeties, given that they'll almost certainly be going 5 deep at corner (Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington). My guess would be that the safeties are competing for 4 spots, with the fourth going to the best ST player of the group.

And you prolly wanna go with 6 or 7 LBs ?! 10 DLs, 5 LBs and 10 DBs would be my guess.

 

[BradyFTW!]

And you prolly wanna go with 6 or 7 LBs ?! 10 DLs, 5 LBs and 10 DBs would be my guess.

6 LBs, yes, but with the caveat that I expect Collins and Hightower will be spending significant time rushing the passer, and not always as linebackers:

QB (3) Brady, Mallett, Garoppolo
RB (4) Ridley, Vereen, White, Houston
WR (6) Edelman, Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, LaFell
TE (3) Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Jones
C (2) Wendell, Stork
G (3) Mankins, Kline, Halapio
T (4) Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Fleming
DE (4) Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Smith
DT (5) Wilfork, Kelly, Easley, Jones, Siliga
ILB(3) Mayo, Hightower, Beauharnais
OLB(3) Collins, Anderson, Davis
CB (5) Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington
SS (2) Harmon, Wilson
FS (2) McCourty, Thomas
ST (4) Gostkowski, Allen, Aiken, Slater

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: http://patspicker.patsfans.com

I could definitely see them going with 5 LB, but if they did that I would more expect to see a 5th RB being the beneficiary than a 5th S.

 

[Ring 6]

We cover Tight Ends with linebackers as well

In zone of course. In combo coverage sure. In single coverage very very rarely

 

[BradyFTW!]

This is just simply not true. Hightower has not been assigned man coverage on TEs. We cover TEs with safeties. You yourself posted stats of receptions when Hightower was in coverage. If he has been covering TEs man to man and those are the numbers they should be carving his bust in Canton.
The fact is that he has not been tasked to cover TEs, you just made that up in order to trash the player, in addition to the laughable comment that he struggles shedding blocks, which may be his greatest strength in comparison to other LBs.
Why not just post once that you don't like the guy and stop clowning yourself with making up reasons that are ridiculous?

I don't think anyone here has said that they don't like Hightower. In fact, I'm just about positive that we all want him to succeed. You really need to chill out - some people actually find it informative to discuss players' limitations as well as all of the ways in which they're awesome. You can either learn to accept that or spend the next decade the same way that you've spent the past one: attacking everyone who doesn't post exactly the same way that you do.

 

[patchick]

Which corner out of this group would you be cutting:

Revis
Browner
Ryan
Dennard
Arrington

to make room for someone like Chung or Ebner?

Keeping in mind that Arrington has $6M in guaranteed money left on his contract.

The key phrase was "start the season with" -- I think you've forgotten Browner's suspension.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The key phrase was "start the season with" -- I think you've forgotten Browner's suspension.

Not quite forgotten; I think that the suspension will just mean that the 4 corners who are there will always be gameday actives, and the beneficiary of the extra roster spot will come in the form of a gameday inactive somewhere else on the roster. The most likely being an extra RB or an extra OL.

Basically, the first four weeks are the weeks where you'd be least concerned about the guys whose only potential use is establishing a floor to hedge against injuries/attrition. With a veteran JAG like Chung, you know exactly what he is and you know that the only way you'll have any use for him is if two safeties go down in the first four weeks. He'll still be available in week 5 and beyond if you absolutely need him.

I think a better use for that 53rd spot over those first 4 weeks is to keep someone like Halapio or the loser of Houston/Bolden on the roster; guys who have a real shot at helping this year in ways that Chung is unlikely to, and could also be pieces of the puzzle going forward. Maybe they like what they see from Halapio and Kline, but they're not comfortable enough to cut Connolly. That 53rd spot lets them keep all 3.