The NFL may have a problem

[Geezer Butler]

in other words:

"the defense sucked"

27 points is enough to win. 42 points is enough to lose.

 

[bresna]

But the Chiefs employed the old, "They can't call everything" strategy, and it worked.

You should call it the "Seahwaks defense" since they're the team that has perfected it.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

You should call it the "Seahwaks defense" since they're the team that has perfected it.

No, you should call it the "Patriots defense" since they used it well in 2001-2003 and even forced a rules change (sorry, "point of emphasis").

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Holding, pushing and grabbing happens on every play. If the refs called everything games would last 122 hours.

With that said the hold on Adam Butler was something else. He was practically being given the Heimlich.

That was bad. He was restrained lol.

 

[Joker]

KC manhandled the Pats in the 4th quarter. At one point, KC had 12 penalties to 2 on the Pats. Sure there was a lot of uncalled PI, but it was that way from the first snap. No excuses. The better team won last night.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Chiefs clearly employed a strategy of playing us tight, holding when it came to that, and knowing the refs couldn't call everything. I agree there. But I don't have a huge problem with that, as long as it's called more or less evenly (which it was - the PI on Butler was a terrible call but otherwise they let contact go on our end too).

The Pats have often employed this strategy over the years. I don't have a problem when we do it, and I don't have a problem when other teams do it. The Pats need to do a better job neutralizing that strategy, and I expect they will once they get Allen and Dorsett better integrated into the offense. I think the bigger issue last night was that it's hard to punish that strategy when you only have 2 healthy WRs who know the offense.

 

[upstater1]

Why do we have fans now sounding like Colts fans in 2004. "It's not fair, Law holds on every play".

We got beat. No excuses.

What is the matter with you people?

Whois making excuses?

I even said the refs called a good game last night.

They can't call 100 penalties.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No, you should call it the "Patriots defense" since they used it well in 2001-2003 and even forced a rules change (sorry, "point of emphasis").

We won at least one Super Bowl on the back of this strategy, and yeah that was 15+ years ago now but even still I'd feel like an outrageous hypocrite if I started complaining much. It's a well-established strategy and we need to do a better job of beating it.

 

[upstater1]

I can only imagine what Chiefs' fans would think if they saw this thread.......after all........

1.) They were penalized far more than the Pats

2.) STILL dominated (not just eeked by) but dominated the Pats to end the game

.........and we still want to focus on the refs. I know, many here have prefaced that we're not blaming the refs for the loss, but it still 'feels' that way.

I complimented the refs. Thought they called a good game.

My only point is that the refs can't throw a flag every play.

This is actually a well-known strategy in basketball. Foul them every time, and eventually the refs stop calling it.

It is a good strategy. For the Chiefs. The only question is, does the NFL want it this way.

Someone here mentioned 2004.

Um... what happened AFTER 2004?

 

[lurker1965]

First, I want to state that I did not have a problem with the refs last night. I think they did a good job.

But the Chiefs employed the old, "They can't call everything" strategy, and it worked. It doesn't work for the Raiders a lot. It works sometimes in basketball. But when the refs become cognizant that they've called 10+ penalties against you, and it just doesn't seem to bother the penalized team, well they have to stop. This is a televised game, entertainment. No one pays to watch the refs.

The Chiefs grabbed wide receivers, they held every play, tackled players without the ball, and the refs were helpless to stop it. This doesn't explain how the Patriots gave up 3 long bombs. It does explain Hunt's late long run. It also explains the Patriots WRs being neutralized, and also partly it explains Brady's bad night. Gronk was getting grabbed constantly. Arms were being grabbed constantly.

Even on offense, the Chiefs TEs were grabbing Patriots by the jersey and driving them back, then turning around for a TD. Like OPI doesn't even exist.

Again, don't get me wrong, the Patriots have employed this strategy in the past. So have the Ravens.

BUT, the NFL has a problem if this is how the games are going to be. Flag after flag is not going to deter anyone, especially if it's working. You're better off giving the Patriots 10 yards than allowing them to execute their offense.

On Gronk's TD drop that was called back my problem was that in slo-mo review on my TV, he was held twice while running his pattern.
Shoulda been 5 yards & a 1st down. 14 point swing. Bothers me more as an indication going forward.

All said, Patriots EARNED their loss.

Although I sorta agree, the "missed" calls and Gronk's TD could be called either way.

 

[The Brandon Five]

We won at least one Super Bowl on the back of this strategy, and yeah that was 15+ years ago now but even still I'd feel like an outrageous hypocrite if I started complaining much. It's a well-established strategy and we need to do a better job of beating it.

Except for the fact that 13 years ago they changed rules to supposedly nullify that strategy. That it would work as well in 2017 as it did in 2004 seems a little bit off, don't it?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Except for the fact that 13 years ago they changed rules to supposedly nullify that strategy. That it would work as well in 2017 as it did in 2004 seems a little bit off, don't it?

Yes and no. The point of emphasis happened, and was strictly enforced for a while, but it's been inconsistent at best in recent years. I think it can be safely said at this point that it's back to being a regular part of the game. Multiple teams build their defensive strategy around it, and the Chiefs are one of them. It's no secret.

It's not like the Chiefs went unflagged. They picked up flags just like you'd expect. They were just willing to live with that, just like the Pats in 2014 or the Seahawks at any point in the last 5 years or the Broncos or the Ravens back when they were good, etc.

 

[GoBlue]

Receivers and defenders aren't suppose to touch each other beyond 5 yards. either change the rules or call it.

 

[fnordcircle]

Yeah, this is definitely a new problem not like all the years before where there were no complaints about the refs.

 

[Joey007]

Why do we have fans now sounding like Colts fans in 2004. "It's not fair, Law holds on every play".

We got beat. No excuses.

It's all about what benefits us most. That's really all it comes down to.

 

[Tony2046]

Right, the first KC TD was clearly a result of the TE blatantly pushing the defender away (not just extending one arm to disengage).

No it wasn't. I just watched that play ten times. He boxed McCourty out. We discussed this with screenshots in the after game thread.

Have to edit this: This should have been called OPI. Pretty decent shove when they both were in the endzone.

Actions that constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched.

(b) Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass.

(c) Driving through a defender who has established a position on the field.

 

[Tony2046]

Not sure how you don't throw a flag for Johnson's PI on Burkhead or the TE that just bulled through McCourty but call Butler and bail out the Chiefs on an underthrown ball.

Those are my nitpicks for the flags in this game. Not gonna say it was the reason Pats lost or anything.

The Burkhead non PI call was text book PI. Should have been called.

The Harris (TE) TD was clean in my opinion.

 

[Tony2046]

This game was lost because of poor execution on both sides of the ball especially the defense in the 4th quarter.

The good news is that a lot of the miscommunication and missed assignments stuff are correctable.

If you rewatch some of the plays KC ran they were very creative. They played well. Smith uncharacteristically hit some dimes down field.

Anyways the refs were fine. Missed some calls on both teams.

 

[Tony2046]

Holding, pushing and grabbing happens on every play. If the refs called everything games would last 122 hours.

With that said the hold on Adam Butler was something else. He was practically being given the Heimlich.

If you're talking about the run play up the middle from their 10 or so yard line you're correct. That was a definite hold but to be fair the play was already past him at the time of the hold imo.

On a side note: Adam Butler is showing some nice stuff out there on the field. He's got some serious burst off the line with power. And your "Watch out for Marsh" still holds true. He has a very high motor out there on the field. Unfortunately he's had only a week to get caught up to speed but still made some nice plays.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Kelce had a catch that clearly touched the ground. Called complete. Inside two minutes so it should have been reviewed.

Yes. That was terrible.

In general, I thought that the refs were not really in mid-season form in having the game clearly and confidently under control. Witness the fact that we didn't get a clear call and explanation on the one-guy-calls-a-fair-catch-another-guy-advances-the-ball play. (Michaels also appeared to be out of it.)

But the Patriots were lousy in pretty much every area (McDaniels' play-calling excepted) and the Chiefs played really, really well. Congratulations to them.