The moment Tom Brady became Tom Brady

[borg]

I don't agree with that. Brady was a top 10 stat guy since 2002. Led the league in TDs in 2002. He was 6th in yards in 02 and 03. Ryan is 6th in yards this year and nobody calls him a game manager.

2002....Brady's career lowest:
Yards/pass attempt
Adjusted yards gained/pass attempt
Yards/pass completion
Quarterback rating
W-L record

Career high in INTs (tie)

2002 ....6 games under 200 yds passing (166, 110, 147, 183, 120, 119) Pats record 1-5
For these games, the passing game failed and the team failed
2002 .....4 games between 201-225 (208, 2019, 210, 216)

The Patriots were a hot mess and their performances were either feast (early season) or famine (late season). Neither their offense nor defense distinguished themselves ....and TB12 certainly had many anemic performances during many of the losses that year

 

[Off The Grid]

It was only after the 2004 season playoff run and SB 39 win where it became even "OK" to start saying who would you want "Manning/Brady"... The third SB put that it play. There was no substantive "GOAT" talk yet.

Speak for yourself.

By the end of 2004, when you say it was "OK" to compare Brady and Manning , I was saying that the debate was emphatically over...and that GOAT talk was in play.

Field Generalship trumps Stats.

Don't you know that, yet?

Brady the "Field Manager" destroyed Manning the Stat Racker in the early years.

Just because you didn't recognize that something special was going on with Brady and with this team...didn't mean that others didn't.

Mind you: Anyone who claims that they anticipated The Dawning of a New Era when we were 5-5 is full'f ****...But the Historical Inflection Point was Game One of The Brady Era ~ Game One ~ when the allegedly hopeless, hapless and 2-14 Destined 11.5 UnderDog Patriots went up against the 44 Point-Averaging Super Bowl Bound Colts, rallied behind their first true Field General...and slaughtered them!!

I remember exactly where I was standing and who I was talking to and what we were talking about when I watched Bryan Cox lay that Hit on Jerome Pathon...

And I remember exactly how that moment felt.

But it wasn't just Defense, baby!! I've got a dozen witnesses, every man and woman'f'm wailing and gnashing their teeth when the Rams tied up the Super Bowl at 17-17, certain, they were, that the Patriots were gonna add yet another chapter to their tragic history, who'll tell you that I took center stage and bellowed "NO....this is perfect." because I felt History pivoting on its Axis...because I knew that Brady would deliver.

It's perfectly OK that it took you a few years to catch on...But you should probably spare yourself the shame of lashing out at those with the Balls and Vision to imagine a SeaChange...and to behold it when it actually came about.

I'm gonna get flamed. But it is a fact that Tom Brady was basically mediocre to slightly above average his first year starting.

*Shrugging*

Props to a guy who puts forth an unpopular opinion. That I respect!!

And indeed I feel obliged to award Double Word Score ~ Judgemental Prick that I am ~ to anyone with the testicular fortitude to directly challenge moi, not because I am such a fearsome adversary ~ my attention span is not exactly remarkable ~ but because of course one doing so must bear the crushing burden of being wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion, man. But I think you're a thousand miles off the track, and I question whether or not you were actually around, watching those games...and if you were, and think that he was mediocre or average in 2001, I believe that your perception ~ to give you an "out" ~ has been retroactively twisted by the spectacular statistics that Brady's produced since The Dead Ball Era ended in 2004.

Anyone with a substantial understanding of the game and who was watching in 2001 saw the lights come on when Brady replaced Bledsoe.

You're entitled to your opinion, man, and I'm not gonna hate...

But to think that the guy who drove it down the field in the snow against the Raiders...twice...and who then drove it down the field to win the Championship against the Rams was mediocre...tells me all I need to know about your judgement.

been watching the Pats since 74. Watched every game in 2001. And I am 100% correct in my assessment.

The problem is you look at stats in a vacuum and don't even realize what the main thing is that makes Tom Brady great, and the fact that it has NOTHING to do with stats.

Tom Brady's most important quality is his ability to operate with complete control and the utmost confidence under the most extreme game pressure situations where the overwhelming majority of people can not!

In fact, Brady actually plays better during those times. Later on in his career Brady started bringing in the stats, because he worked hard at refining his accuracy, understanding the game, and generally just trying to get better.

But at the end of the day what makes Brady the special QB that he is, has nothing to do with how many garbage time stats he can pile up with a lead.

It's that fact that when the moment gets big, so does he.

Bingo!!

He's just being stubborn, because he's so focused on statistics that he never had a clue what we had in Brady until we won our 3rd Championship, and only really started to get on board when Brady started lighting up the scoreboard in 2007. By that time, he'd probably spent so much time and energy calling Brady a system quarterback that he just can't find it in himself to admit how badly he'd misjudged'm. The amusing part, considering that this is a subjective matter, after all ~ whether Brady was mediocre, great, or whatever in 2001 ~ is that only mosslost, who claims that the guy who led that Championship Drive was "mediocre" , says that it isn't a matter of opinion.

"I am 100% correct in my assessment."

Well, all righty, then!!

 

[Simpelton]

Prior to Bill Polian effectively changing the rules in favor of the WRs over the DBs, Brady was a very successful QB on a team that embraced a balanced attack.
Post Polian meddling is when BB placed the entire weight of the offense and the team on Brady's shoulders. For me, this new era is when Tom Brady became Tom Brady.
The handcuffs were off......and he has shined like no other. 2007 was his coming out party.

I disagree slightly, but only slightly. Tom Brady was both willing and able to be the quarterback the team needed him to be both before and after the rules change. Polian was trying to get an advantage for Peyton Manning in the Manning-Brady rivalry, letting him sling it out more freely to prevail against a guy in Brady whose reputation was as an elite game manager with an arm somewhere a tick above average or so.

Then Brady showed that like Belichick he could adjust to match the meta, and outgunned Manning to effectively end the rivalry in his own favor over the next several years. Manning, of course, did not adjust, he jept doing what he was doing which was very good but not nearly as adaptable.

Personally I think that shows greatness both before and after the rules change. Manning was an excellent QB but a bit of a one trick pony, even if it was one heck of a trick. Brady played in the best way possible to maximize his own team's chances to win in the current football meta both before and after the rules change. When that meant being an elite game manager he was an elite game manager, when that meant putting the team on his arm he could do that too.

 

[mosslost]

"I am 100% correct in my assessment."

100%

 

[Kdo5]

I don't think any of us could have imagined he'd have the potential be the GOAT until after he had #3. But I'd say I believed he was something special after watching him comeback in the 4th quarter to beat the Raiders in a snow storm. The Super Bowl confirmed it.

I'll admit I was happy to be moving on to Brady from Bledsoe not long into the season.