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The Key To 2021 and 2022 Success

2020 Patriots Season:
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mgteich

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OK, we are a long shot for the playoffs, although I think that this team could win the last 4 if they are hot at the end of the season.
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HOW TO BUILD FOR 2021 and 2022
Is the answer really 2-4 additional 2021 draft choices?

SOME THOUGHTS
1) Adding the normal set of rookies plus a couple of more isn't the answer.
2) The defense is a top 10 defense. A couple of weeks ago folks argued that it was top 5. We have a fine secondary, a mix of youth and veterans. We need linebackers (no surprise). The DL needs a NT, These are NOT a reason to cut all the vets a rebuild. The defense needs FEWER additions that normal for a top defense.
3) We entered the 2020 offseason needing a QB, 3 WR's and 2 TE's. Arguably NONE of these needs have been met. Is the answer REALLY to expect to draft SIX top players? Really? Are we that good at drafting these positions?

HOW BEST TO GET PLAYERS FOR THE OFFENSE
A) Tank and hope that we can draft a top QB, using 2 or 3 of our top picks. That is certainly a possibility. The addition of 3 draft choices by getting rid of our strength could help this happen. Of course, we will simply be creating holes. I suppose, we could trade Thuney for a 3rd.
B) We COULD try to meet the need by trading draft picks for players who would be expected to contribute for 2-3 years. Is it possible that we could trade a 2nd and a 3rd for better players than Belichick would draft in 2021. By 2021, these players would have some experience in the offense, rather than being raw rookies.
 

farn

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NE could greatly benefit from a 2012-2013 draft when they added key pieces that set the D on an upward trend after leaner 2005-2011 years...

I know it’s unpopular with some posters - but I think trading valuable, yet aging assets, gives them more “darts” to throw at the board.
 

IllegalContact

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NE could greatly benefit from a 2012-2013 draft when they added key pieces that set the D on an upward trend after leaner 2005-2011 years...

I know it’s unpopular with some posters - but I think trading valuable, yet aging assets, gives them more “darts” to throw at the board.


blow it up.........the only reason to spend top dollar on any individual position is because you're contending........the highest paid CB in the league don't mean squat to a team that's not contending...........if you're losing all the time, teams are throwing less on you anyway
 

Doctor DDS

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I think cap space is more important than the picks. If they believe that they have viable replacements for Thuney and Gilmore already on the roster trading them for some picks frees up more cap space and allows them to enter the FA market with substantial cap space at a time when fewer teams than normal will have any. Trade a pick or 2 to cash strapped teams for a couple good players (Defensive line, WR) at time of draft and/or consider packaging a few picks to move up for a higher one. They need to get a QB so it could provide more ammo to get one.
 

luuked

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I said it before but given that COVID is depressing the usual growth in salary cap puts teams that have their cap cleaned up into a rare situation where they can find value contracts for quality players with the bill for their signing bonus stays with the original team.

This is the best inefficiency to exploit at this trade deadline and the upcoming two years.

The draft will have the usual normally distributed lottery aspect to it which means it is nothing you can plan with in advance. Yes you might end up with a historic draft but you won't know that before at the earliest 1-2 weeks into camp or in some cases even later (i.e. when did people realize that Gronk had the potential that made him a HoF player ?).

Veteran players and free agents are the type of moves with the lowest variance but usually with a high price tag. But as initially mentioned the cap situation might change that equation for 1-2 years.

If you want a short term fix this will be among the more likely to succeed. Which is why being a seller makes not much sense to me.
 

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
I think we may all have to come to terms that this team will likely not be good for a while.

1) QB - we have seen teams flounder for years playing the QB carousel. Where is the long term starting QB coming from? Likely not on the team right now. If we draft one what are the odds we get a 10 year franchise QB? Hard to win consistently in the NFL without a good QB.

2) Skill Players - we need an influx of talent at WR and possibly TE if the 2 rookies don’t pan out. This team hasn’t drafted well at these positions for a decade. What makes us believe they’ll suddenly draft a few great/good WRs? Maybe better off going the FA route.

3) Our Core Is Getting Old - McCourty’s, Edelman, Hightower, Chung, Gilmore are all over 30. They’ll be gone before the rebuild is complete. On defence we need to add talent on the line and at LB.

4) Bill is 68 years old - how much longer does he want to do it, especially if he’s looking at a multi year rebuild without having a franchise QB?

There are more questions than answers with this team. Bill retooled brilliantly on the fly from 09-13 drafts. Our lack of draft success since has left the cupboard bare and we have felt the effects the last couple of years. Without a QB in place I don’t see us going anywhere in ‘21 or ‘22. The rebuild is on.
 

slifersd

Practice Squad Player
We need to either draft better, or just punt on the draft and trade the picks for actual players. For a team that stress the word "value", we need to take a look at our draft in the last 5,6 years and ask what value did we get out of these picks? I know it sucks to hear this, but if we cannot identify good players in the draft, there is no reason to keep piling up draft picks. Trade them for players and we can at least get something out of them. Last thing we need is to hold onto a first round pick and draft a Harry/Michel when we can at least use it to get a Brandin Cooks.
 

mgteich

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We need to either draft better, or just punt on the draft and trade the picks for actual players. For a team that stress the word "value", we need to take a look at our draft in the last 5,6 years and ask what value did we get out of these picks? I know it sucks to hear this, but if we cannot identify good players in the draft, there is no reason to keep piling up draft picks. Trade them for players and we can at least get something out of them. Last thing we need is to hold onto a first round pick and draft a Harry/Michel when we can at least use it to get a Brandin Cooks.
If we can trade a first for players as good Cooks who are under contract for 3 years, that seems the way to go.

The advantage of draft picks is that they are inexpensive.

In end, the draft is a crapshoot. We can complain, as we would. However, our team isn't the worst drafting team (not close). Use any source thqat does such comparisons) other than patsfans posters.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Ultimately we have to draft better. Hitting on a trade or FA wouldn't hurt either.

We've invested as many early picks at DB in the past few years than we have at DL and others in the past decade. We have to spread those picks around and hit.

I wouldn't trade Thuney for anything less than a 2nd. We get a 3rd if he walks and signs so I'd rather keep him. Same for Gilly. If it's not multiple picks (two seconds, a first and 3rd ...) I'm keeping him and trying to make it work. They're not the problems and we'd only be creating holes to fill ourselves.

I'm also trading into the 2nd this year. I want to every year. I see too much talent in that 33-45 spot to not fight like hell to get up there. Use our second and a comp. Two 3rds for another second. We have the picks in the mid and late rounds to make up for it.

I'll be putting out my very small, initial PTP Big Board later this week fwiw.
 

mgteich

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How terrible was the current draft?

1) a contributor who is a likely future starter at S.
2) 2 LB's, one of which is contributing now. We have hope for one starter and one contributer.
3) 2 TE's who are not ready at all to be in passing game. One can block.
4) A starting OG.
5) A tackle who is at least a solid Game Day backup.
 

slifersd

Practice Squad Player
If we can trade a first for players as good Cooks who are under contract for 3 years, that seems the way to go.

The advantage of draft picks is that they are inexpensive.

In end, the draft is a crapshoot. We can complain, as we would. However, our team isn't the worst drafting team (not close). Use any source thqat does such comparisons) other than patsfans posters.

You are certainly right, there are many many benefits to having a good young player on controllable and cheap contract for 4-5 years. I also fully acknowledge the fact that draft is a bit of a crapshoot. But looking at our recent track record, how many of our first and second round picks would you even want to keep around for 4-5 years? Off the top of my head, we drafted Easley, Michel, Harry, Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones, Richards all in the first two rounds. Those guys don't combine for one decent player. Our recent draft history is not good no matter how you really look at it. We may not be the worst in the league, but you can hardly call our draft super bowl level quality. Just for comparison, Pittsburg never spends first round picks on offense and look at their skills position players. The argument that "hey we drafted better than the Jets!" isnt productive if our goal is to get back to a super bowl level team.
 

luuked

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How terrible was the current draft?

Are you seriously asking this question after there was were no workouts in Spring, no preseason games or joined practices and about 50% less time on the practice field per week (Mon, Tues off, Wed virtual, Th, Fr practice) due to COVID protocols and team choices ?

And all of this not even at midpoint ? What part of BB saying "this rookie class is further behind than any other" did you not understand ?

You will not get a representative assessment until at least after camp of their second year. Hell, maybe even end of their sophomore season.

Some players with a high floor will start faster and look impressive now but might fight for a roster spot next August. Others who have done nothing so far will look impressive once they put everything together and get some reps.
 

Vindicate

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
You are certainly right, there are many many benefits to having a good young player on controllable and cheap contract for 4-5 years. I also fully acknowledge the fact that draft is a bit of a crapshoot. But looking at our recent track record, how many of our first and second round picks would you even want to keep around for 4-5 years? Off the top of my head, we drafted Easley, Michel, Harry, Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones, Richards all in the first two rounds. Those guys don't combine for one decent player. Our recent draft history is not good no matter how you really look at it. We may not be the worst in the league, but you can hardly call our draft super bowl level quality. Just for comparison, Pittsburg never spends first round picks on offense and look at their skills position players. The argument that "hey we drafted better than the Jets!" isnt productive if our goal is to get back to a super bowl level team.

Sucks that Easley just didn't care for football. He had some ridiculous stat that had him as the fastest DL player to react to a snap.
 

mgteich

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Are you seriously asking this question after there was were no workouts in Spring, no preseason games or joined practices and about 50% less time on the practice field per week (Mon, Tues off, Wed virtual, Th, Fr practice) due to COVID protocols and team choices ?

And all of this not even at midpoint ? What part of BB saying "this rookie class is further behind than any other" did you not understand ?

You will not get a representative assessment until at least after camp of their second year. Hell, maybe even end of their sophomore season.

Some players with a high floor will start faster and look impressive now but might fight for a roster spot next August. Others who have done nothing so far will look impressive once they put everything together and get some reps.
Did you actually read my post?

I asked a question and then demonstrated how WELL the current draft class is contributing in its rookie year. Onwenu is a solid starter. Herron is a solid backup at LT and RT. Dugger is contributing as a rookie in one of the best secondaries in the NFL. And yes, we are getting some reps from a blocking TE, and from a rookie LB.
 

luuked

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Did you actually read my post?

I asked a question and then demonstrated how WELL the current draft class is contributing in its rookie year. Onwenu is a solid starter. Herron is a solid backup at LT and RT. Dugger is contributing as a rookie in one of the best secondaries in the NFL. And yes, we are getting some reps from a blocking TE, and from a rookie LB.

I read it but I don't think that there is much to say about the rookies from a big picture view at all so far.

Owenwu is exactly who I had in mind as someone who starts out fast and well but might end up on the outside looking in next year in camp. I think it would be hypocritical to question the timing of evaluation only if you had a negative impression. In this case a lot of reps are not because those players made a vet replaceable but because of circumstances.

Which might end up being a good thing as they get those valuable reps that Dawson or JJ Williams didn't get.
 
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