The Issue Isn't The Offense or ST's

[mgteich]

The needed steps on offense and ST's aren't that major.

OFFENSE
Re-sign Karras, and already we might be better than 2021 with expected improvements in the passing game as the QB and receivers have another year together. [And, yes, we need another WR]. Yes, we need to re-sign or replace Brown. A strong swing OT is what we need. As of now, our backup LT is Herron.

SPECIAL TEAMS
Three steps rare needed here to be as good as 2022.
Re-sign Folk, extend Bailey and re-sign Gunner or a replacement.
=============================
DEFENSE
Davis, Hightower, Bentley, McCourty and Jackson are all free agents. Replacing them will be expensive, with no real assurances of success at so many positions. I include Davis to remind us of the need for an interior defensive lineman.

 

[maust]

SPECIAL TEAMS
Three steps are needed here to be as good as 2021.

Respectfully, I have to take exception to the use of the term '...as good as...' in describing New England's Special Teams.
While it's true the Pats ST's were in the middle of the pack this past season in terms of ranking that's a hella drop from previously being among the league's best year after year. In fact I was surprised the 2021 ranking (15-18th in various rankings) was as high as it was. The ol' Mach 1 eyeball test had me thinking it would have been much worse. Outside of Folk the ST's simply did not look anywhere near 'good' never mind providing the Pats with the kind of advantage over opponents they'd previously enjoyed in that regard.

Overall 2021 is not the 'as good as' measuring stick we should want them to be using.

 

[mgteich]

Respectfully, I have to take exception to the use of the term '...as good as...' in describing New England's Special Teams.
While it's true the Pats ST's were in the middle of the pack this past season in terms of ranking that's a hella drop from previously being among the league's best year after year. In fact I was surprised the 2021 ranking (15-18th in various rankings) was as high as it was. The ol' Mach 1 eyeball test had me thinking it would have been much worse. Outside of Folk the ST's simply did not look anywhere near 'good' never mind providing the Pats with the kind of advantage over opponents they'd previously enjoyed in that regard.

Overall 2021 is not the 'as good as' measuring stick we should want them to be using.

fair enough

OPEN QUESTIONS
1) Why was Gunner and the return game so much less effective?
2) Why was the punting game so much less effective?

After 20 years of Belichick's emphasis on special teams, I have confidence that this aspect of the team will be greatly improved. Belichick is willing to spend the resources and give it the internal attention special teams deserves.

As a mild side issue, the special teams were much worse in the first half of the season. The first half is what we remember most with the blocked punts, the poor punts, and the worst return game in the league. Seeing Gunner return the ball from the end zone to the 10 was a recurring scenario. ONCE, he got the ball past the 25.

SOME THOUGHTS
1) We need to bring Bolden back.
2) King should help if he can stay healthy. Healthy, he is a top STer.
3) Bethel and Davis should be good enough to lead the coverage teams.
4) Belichick will likely upgrade the rest of the coverage units.
5) I see us bringing in at least one top Ster, as we did when we signed Bethel.
6) Gunner needs to be evaluated. He has a great season in 2020 and a terrible one in 2021.

 

[Wozzy]

fair enough

OPEN QUESTIONS
1) Why was Gunner and the return game so much less effective?
2) Why was the punting game so much less effective?

After 20 years of Belichick's emphasis on special teams, I have confidence that this aspect of the team will be greatly improved. Belichick is willing to spend the resources and give it the internal attention special teams deserves.

As a mild side issue, the special teams were much worse in the first half of the season. The first half is what we remember most with the blocked punts, the poor punts, and the worst return game in the league. Seeing Gunner return the ball from the end zone to the 10 was a recurring scenario. ONCE, he got the ball past the 25.

SOME THOUGHTS
1) We need to bring Bolden back.
2) King should help if he can stay healthy. Healthy, he is a top STer.
3) Bethel and Davis should be good enough to lead the coverage teams.
4) Belichick will likely upgrade the rest of the coverage units.
5) I see us bringing in at least one top Ster, as we did when we signed Bethel.
6) Gunner needs to be evaluated. He has a great season in 2020 and a terrible one in 2021.

Gunner had the third highest punt return average in the NFL in 2021, and on a special teams unit that was poor at blocking.

Blocking is why the special teams fell off greatly from 2020 to 2021. Blocking was terrible. Even the O-Line struggled early until they put Karras at guard and got all the vets on the field. Football starts, is won or lost at the line of scrimmage.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Right, I would focus on defense. Resign karras , tender myers, and insert onwenu at rt. hopefully judge can help the st, im sure as always we’ll have the personnel in place for strong st

 

[Kasmir]

Respectfully, I have to take exception to the use of the term '...as good as...' in describing New England's Special Teams.
While it's true the Pats ST's were in the middle of the pack this past season in terms of ranking that's a hella drop from previously being among the league's best year after year. In fact I was surprised the 2021 ranking (15-18th in various rankings) was as high as it was. The ol' Mach 1 eyeball test had me thinking it would have been much worse. Outside of Folk the ST's simply did not look anywhere near 'good' never mind providing the Pats with the kind of advantage over opponents they'd previously enjoyed in that regard.

Overall 2021 is not the 'as good as' measuring stick we should want them to be using.

By DVOA, it was a real collapse in ST. We went from #1 overall to #18. Biggest fall off by far was in the punting game., where we went from 1st to 31st. Bailey was a little worse, but the real problem was the 3 blocked punts and poor coverage. Punt return game fell from #1 to #8, but it looked worse than that because the 2020 punt return results were so good.

2021 Team DVOA Ratings: Special Teams | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

2020 Team DVOA Ratings: Special Teams | Football Outsiders

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[Pape]

The needed steps on offense and ST's aren't that major.

OFFENSE
Re-sign Karras, and already we might be better than 2021 with expected improvements in the passing game as the QB and receivers have another year together. [And, yes, we need another WR]. Yes, we need to re-sign or replace Brown. A strong swing OT is what we need. As of now, our backup LT is Herron.

SPECIAL TEAMS
Three steps rare needed here to be as good as 2022.
Re-sign Folk, extend Bailey and re-sign Gunner or a replacement.
=============================
DEFENSE
Davis, Hightower, Bentley, McCourty and Jackson are all free agents. Replacing them will be expensive, with no real assurances of success at so many positions. I include Davis to remind us of the need for an interior defensive lineman.

Re-sign Karras - yes.

Re-Sign / Replace Brown - Re-Sgn him only at the right price. If a mid-level replacement is there, move on. Brown is a good player, no doubt. When he's healthy though.

Nick Folk has had a late career resurgence, which we have benefited greatly from. But if Quinn Nordin has the leg to beat him out in camp, I don't have a problem moving on from Folk.

Gunner should be fairly cheap, without a lot of free market competition from other teams. If anyone is going to target a free agent, it will likely be Braxton Berrios... Unless I completely mis-read his market value, which is probable, think we can bring him back for near minimum, which is fine by me.

Bailey - Is absolutely worth extending... and lets you drop his 3.8m cap hit in doing so, depending on the structure of an extension.

Carl Davis as a rotational player is fine at his current salary level. I'd look to upgrade though. no idea who.

as for the linebackers.. hoping a second year returnee will step up. High is too expensive for his returns... Bentley I could see back as I don't think there will be a huge demand for his services...

McCourty I think will retire.

and JCJ... no idea what to do... tag him, he automatically becomes an average annual value player at 20m at year... which is too much i think... Would love to resign him at the tag level of 18 a year, 5 years... structured however way is best... but most CBs really push the envelope as far as money goes...