The importance of getting it right in the draft

[upstater1]

You don't include players that were drafted and didn't pan out after 3 years because they're no longer on the team. You won't include Wino or Perkins because they're DEs (OLB) but do include Uche. Seems awfully convenient and disingenuous.

Huh?

What players who aren't on the team after 3 years? Who are you talking about?

Uche is listed as a LB.

Perkins at Arkansas was never an LB. Straight up DE. I already provided a link, don't know why you didn't look: New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The Patriots are better at drafting LBs than the vast majority of the league.

 

[venecol]

Huh?

What players who aren't on the team after 3 years? Who are you talking about?

Uche is listed as a LB.

Perkins at Arkansas was never an LB. Straight up DE. I already provided a link, don't know why you didn't look: New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The Patriots are better at drafting LBs than the vast majority of the league.

Uche served the same role that Wino did.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You were doing fine until ...

He worked in the Front Office for one year in 2012. Others have said it as well, but I can't remember who.

 

[upstater1]

Uche served the same role that Wino did.

Uche is not only pass rushing, he's dropping into coverage, as is Judon.

Winovich was setting the edge.

Whatever, you can follow what they did in college; Perkins was never a LB. But if you want to look at how the Patriots draft the front 7, then do that. It will give you a clearer picture overall.

The gist of these posts is that the Patriots suck at drafting, just a brainless analysis when you look at the players they've brought in like Barmore, Uche, Bentley, Wise, Roberts, Flowers, Collins, Chandler Jones, Hightower. This is not a bad record, All-Pro, some Pro Bowlers, a couple guys (Flowers, Roberts) that destroyed the best offense in the league for a SB.

And in the prior 10 years, Seymour, Wilfork, Warren and Mayo weren't bad either.

I think we can safely say they do a good job with these positions.

 

[Kontradiction]

Guess what??!! You're not going to be perfect all the time.

And drafting #30th thru 32nd isn't going to be much help either. Losing several picks to Deflategate won't help much.

The fact it as sustained for so long is really really unusual.

I don’t expect them to be perfect all the time. I expect the guy who many on here claim is the “GOAT GM” to not have 8-year dry spells.

 

[lancerman]

It's the stone cold truth. We haven't had an elite playmaker that will scare a D since Gronk. Belichick seems to be allergic to them.

And to double down on this, Gronk was basically fail proof. He was physically a mismatch at his position for anybody who would cover him so the scheme didn't matter.

 

[upstater1]

I don’t expect them to be perfect all the time. I expect the guy who many on here claim is the “GOAT GM” to not have 8-year dry spells.

Well, first, it's 6 years.

But again, put it in context. The bust rate for the 30-32nd pick is exponentially higher than it is for the 15th. Hell, in 2016 and 2017, we didn't even have a first round draft choice, just 4 picks overall in 2017 (3, 3, 4, 6). The 6 drafts between 2014 and 2019 were bad. No other way to say it. But we also were down in picks and we picked at the end of the rounds.

In those years, we only landed a few helpful players: Garoppolo, Stork, James White, Trey Flowers, Malcolm Brown, Shaq Mason, Elandon Roberts, Malcolm Mitchell, Joe Thuney, Deatrich Wise, Jawan Bentley, Damien Harris. I count 15 busts (first 4 rounds). 15 busts is a lot. It's bad drafting. But a lot of the guys we got were key in Super Bowl victories. Look at those names: Thuney, Mitchell, Roberts, Mason, Flowers, White, Stork.

This is really forgivable, and I'd even argue that as the good players from 2014 and 2015 left New England by 2020 (Garoppolo, Stork, Flowers, Brown, Roberts, Mitchell, Thuney), the bad drafting of those years would never have made us good now. Players get old. They retire: James White.

We're really just seeing a very old team become young. It's rebuilding. That's what this is. The last time we did this was 2008 through 2011. And it was really Brady's presence that took us from what would have been 10 or 9 win teams (like the last 2 years with Mac) to 10 or 11 or 12 wins a decade ago. But the young players of those drafts formed the championship teams of 2014-2018.

 

[PatsFan2]

The question has to start being whether the Pats can't draft WRs or they cannot develop WRs. Thornton has the skills, but he looks lost on the field half the time. Maybe if Harry was drafted by another team and the Pats drafted Samuel like people thought they would, people would be talking about Harry being a stud and Samuel as a bust.

From what I have seen from the development of younger players in recent years at least in certain positions, I wonder if a lot of players are just wasted,

I don't like our 10 cents yes man Position Coaches.

 

[PatsFan2]

Did anyone notice during last Saturday's broadcast Charles Davis said the Patriots don't have anyone on offense (this includes Rham) that scares defenses or keeps coordinators up at night. Many analysts have said the same exact thing all season long.

Homers just got a kick in the guy the reality.

 

[PatsFan2]

The last few drafts have been decent, not great. We gotta hit on our high picks (Strange was a bad pick and Thornton not looking great either). At the end of the day Bill hasn't drafted an elite offensive talent since Gronk in 2010.

And if we don't find one soon enough we'll be always looking up on Josh Allen and the Bills.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think it comes down to Belichick doesn't know how to pick WRs. If it was just our scheme then we'd see these guys do better after they left, which hasn't happened. Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, N'Keal Harry.... none of them had success elsewhere.

George Pickens - Pittsburgh Steelers Wide Receiver - ESPN

View the profile of Pittsburgh Steelers Wide Receiver George Pickens on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

How the hell after watching these two guys do you take Boney Thornton before Pickens that's just dumb.

 

[zimmy]

The thing with the Thornton pick was that we knew they were after two things last offseason - a bigger bodied contested catch guy and an explosive speed guy - and were likely to get one through free agency/trade and one in the draft. They looked at MVS and Robbie Anderson to fill the latter role and obviously Parker for the former. If they had signed MVS or traded for Anderson they may have taken Pickens in the draft but once they traded for Parker, Thornton became the guy.

Perhaps the issue is that instead of just picking the best receivers, they are looking for specific scheme fits.

 

[Toofy]

Pats can't draft or develop wide receivers for nuts . We got lucky with Edelman and Gronk and had Brady who could elevate their play to otherworldly. Now with none of them there and no Brady we need to hit the darts on target i.e draft impact wide receivers or at least develop them . We don't seem to do both .

Troy brown is a huge disappointment and needs to be fired. I would get someone from the OSU WR coaching stable. They seem to have figured the formula now.

Or get offensive assistants from lions or 49ers or eagles. Lions route running seems pretty good. Thornton could use some help as he looks like a Harry clone with his route running now.

 

[upstater1]

I don't like our 10 cents yes man Position Coaches.

You would think just one of our busts (who the coaches can't develop) would go on to some other NFL franchise and have a mediocre career. But it has never happened. What does that tell you?

I mean, there are a lot of examples of the opposite thing happening. A player who is NT tearing up the league at WR comes to New England and he does pretty well: Wes Welker. Chris Hogan. Reche Caldwell. David Patten.

There are examples of guys doing well here and then doing poorly when they sign elsewhere: Deion Branch. David Givens.

Then there are guys who were middling elsewhere and did pretty well or middling here: Brandon LaFell, Jabar Gaffney, Brandin Lloyd.

There are high caliber WRs that have done well almost anywhere they've gone: Randy Moss. Brandin Cooks.

There are guys who developed and became pretty good WRs in New England: Julian Edelman. Jakobi Meyers. Troy Brown.

There are very good rookies who got hurt: Mitchell.

But the one thing you will not find is a WR who was taken in the draft, left New England and became halfway decent.

This tells me that it's a scouting problem, not a development problem. Specifically, it's a college scouting problem, since a good amount of FA WRs or traded WRs have had success here (Welker, Hogan, Caldwell, Patten, Moss, Cooks, LaFell, Gaffney, Lloyd).

 

[upstater1]

George Pickens - Pittsburgh Steelers Wide Receiver - ESPN

View the profile of Pittsburgh Steelers Wide Receiver George Pickens on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

How the hell after watching these two guys do you take Boney Thornton before Pickens that's just dumb.

Because even the Steelers preferred Thornton. The Patriots had intel the Steelers were taking him. Which is why they traded up. Thornton's WR coach at Baylor is a Steelers assistant coach.

 

[PatsFan2]

Because even the Steelers preferred Pickens. The Patriots had intel the Steelers were taking him. Which is why they traded up. Thornton's WR coach at Baylor is a Steelers assistant coach.

Upstater: the Patriots picked Thornton before Pickens that's foolish: Pickens was the better prospect by Far! It's not even close I could have picked the WR for the Patriots with my eyes close.

 

[upstater1]

Upstater: the Patriots picked Thornton before Pickens that's foolish: Pickens was the better prospect by Far! It's not even close I could have picked the WR for the Patriots with my eyes close.

It's still early in their careers. Pickens obviously has an attitude problem.

But if you soured on Thornton because of his big drop, remember, Pickens did the same thing: Pickens drops Pickett's would-be 49-yard TD DIME

 

[PatsFan2]

It's still early in their careers. Pickens obviously has an attitude problem.

But if you soured on Thornton because of his big drop, remember, Pickens did the same thing: Pickens drops Pickett's would-be 49-yard TD DIME

I knew Pickens was going to be an IMPACT player from Day 1. The other prospect that intrigued me was Christian Watson his ability was freakish and it shows. We better hope Thornton develops in year two. The year we Drafted Harry I was in love with AJ Brown don't know how we didn't like him. But BB is in love with choir boy football players because they are so studios on the football field.

 

[PatsFan2]

It's still early in their careers. Pickens obviously has an attitude problem.

But if you soured on Thornton because of his big drop, remember, Pickens did the same thing: Pickens drops Pickett's would-be 49-yard TD DIME

I like Meyers and all not as much as many Pats fans who would love him to resign. But imagine if we had drafted Pickens l would be like this in regards to a Meyers resigning.

 

[upstater1]

I knew Pickens was going to be an IMPACT player from Day 1. The other prospect that intrigued me was Christian Watson his ability was freakish and it shows. We better hope Thornton develops in year two. The year we Drafted Harry I was in love with AJ Brown don't know how we didn't like him. But BB is in love with choir boy football players because they are so studios on the football field.

You think Belichick is the only one who stayed away from Pickens? Practically the entire league did.

We'll see about these 2 WRs in the future. Watson dropped the ball a lot in college. He had a case of the dropsies this year too. We shall see.

I wrote this about the 2020 draft a few weeks ago: only 2 of the WRs taken in the 1st 2 rounds in 2020 are currently with the teams that picked them.

Deebo Samuel and Metcalf. AJ Brown is excellent, that makes 3 successes. Marquise was trending toward being really good, but the decision to trade him by Baltimore was a curious one. Then I watched him play us in Arizona. He was sloppy and disinterested. Would not be surprised to see him flame out. The other 5 receivers were busts. It's Russian roulette w/ 6-shooter but with 4 bullets in the cylinder.