The importance of getting it right in the draft

[TheRainMaker]

So yes, it does look like contending teams and recent SB winners have elite talent at the skill positions. Algohlor, Bourne, Thornton, and Meyers aren't keeping D co-ordinators up at night.

Did anyone notice during last Saturday's broadcast Charles Davis said the Patriots don't have anyone on offense (this includes Rham) that scares defenses or keeps coordinators up at night. Many analysts have said the same exact thing all season long.

 

[jdlboot14]

I've said this a lot - its not that the Pats pick the "wrong" WR's, it's that they're not flexible or creative enough on the offense to allow them to produce like other teams. Yes, we have a few busts, but more often we completely drown young WR's with intense and complex schemes that they initially fail at - which destroys any natural confidence or ability they had. This was proven multiple times when Brady was here. It's mathematically impossible, that EVERY SINGE year, the Patriots grab the ONLY WR that tanks, while everyone else produces. It's not that Thornton can't play, look at the pencil - DeVonta Smith... We've already ruined his will with a stupid offense and blocking assignments all year. Same old story.

 

[Boomer B]

Did anyone notice during last Saturday's broadcast Charles Davis said the Patriots don't have anyone on offense (this includes Rham) that scares defenses or keeps coordinators up at night. Many analysts have said the same exact thing all season long.

It's the stone cold truth. We haven't had an elite playmaker that will scare a D since Gronk. Belichick seems to be allergic to them.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The last few drafts have been decent, not great. We gotta hit on our high picks (Strange was a bad pick and Thornton not looking great either). At the end of the day Bill hasn't drafted an elite offensive talent since Gronk in 2010.

I'd even throw Hernandez in there in that same draft. The guy was an elite talent and made an instant impact. He had a big career ahead of him.

It does seem Bill gets elite talent by accident (especially on offense) as he doesn't actively look for it as said by Chris Simms. He said Bill will take a player "he likes" over an elite talent all day.

 

[Boomer B]

I've said this a lot - its not that the Pats pick the "wrong" WR's, it's that they're not flexible or creative enough on the offense to allow them to produce like other teams. Yes, we have a few busts, but more often we completely drown young WR's with intense and complex schemes that they initially fail at - which destroys any natural confidence or ability they had. This was proven multiple times when Brady was here. It's mathematically impossible, that EVERY SINGE year, the Patriots grab the ONLY WR that tanks, while everyone else produces. It's not that Thornton can't play, look at the pencil - DeVonta Smith... We've already ruined his will with a stupid offense and blocking assignments all year. Same old story.

I think it comes down to Belichick doesn't know how to pick WRs. If it was just our scheme then we'd see these guys do better after they left, which hasn't happened. Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, N'Keal Harry.... none of them had success elsewhere.

 

[Trolltolls]

I've said this a lot - its not that the Pats pick the "wrong" WR's, it's that they're not flexible or creative enough on the offense to allow them to produce like other teams. Yes, we have a few busts, but more often we completely drown young WR's with intense and complex schemes that they initially fail at - which destroys any natural confidence or ability they had. This was proven multiple times when Brady was here. It's mathematically impossible, that EVERY SINGE year, the Patriots grab the ONLY WR that tanks, while everyone else produces. It's not that Thornton can't play, look at the pencil - DeVonta Smith... We've already ruined his will with a stupid offense and blocking assignments all year. Same old story.

Devonta Smith has 1000x the talent that Tyquan does. Tyquan can't even dream of doing things that Devonta can as a WR. The only thing he has right now is a fast 40 time test.

 

[archstanton543]

I'd even throw Hernandez in there in that same draft. The guy was an elite talent and made an instant impact. He had a big career ahead of him.

It does seem Bill gets elite talent on accident (especially on offense) as he doesn't actively look for it as said by Chris Simms. He said Bill will take a player "he likes" over an elite talent all day.

By accident.

 

[Boomer B]

Devonta Smith has 1000x the talent that Tyquan does. Tyquan can't even dream of doing things that Devonta can as a WR. The only thing he has right now is a fast 40 time test.

Yup, there was a reason Smith was regarded as a top 10 talent and Thornton was considered a reach in the 2nd round.

 

[Trolltolls]

Yup, there was a reason Smith was regarded as a top 10 talent and Thornton was considered a reach in the 2nd round.

For real, let me know when Tyquan can make plays like this...

 

[TheRainMaker]

By accident.

 

[upstater1]

Damn that's cold

I didn't know he died

 

[upstater1]

Well, Bill did. 8 straight years of anything from mediocre to terrible drafts essentially ended the dynasty. The team went through a period like that before - 2006 until 2010. Then 2010 and 2012 happened and we had to core of the second half of the dynasty.

Guess what??!! You're not going to be perfect all the time.

And drafting #30th thru 32nd isn't going to be much help either. Losing several picks to Deflategate won't help much.

The fact it as sustained for so long is really really unusual.

 

[upstater1]

I've said this a lot - its not that the Pats pick the "wrong" WR's, it's that they're not flexible or creative enough on the offense to allow them to produce like other teams. Yes, we have a few busts, but more often we completely drown young WR's with intense and complex schemes that they initially fail at - which destroys any natural confidence or ability they had. This was proven multiple times when Brady was here. It's mathematically impossible, that EVERY SINGE year, the Patriots grab the ONLY WR that tanks, while everyone else produces. It's not that Thornton can't play, look at the pencil - DeVonta Smith... We've already ruined his will with a stupid offense and blocking assignments all year. Same old story.

So how come Mitchell picks it up but the others can't?

And how come our WRs don't go to other teams and do anything?

I don't buy this argument because of that.

One, we don't draft many WRs. Like hardly ever. Between Dobson and Harry, we didn't take even ONE receiver in the first 3 rounds.
Two, the WRs we did take between 2006 and 2013 never went on to do anything for any other team in the NFL either.

I'd say that 7 year period was an example of very bad drafting of WRs. They were bad.

Since then, we are 1 for 2 (Mitchell and Harry).

hat's a very long time in the NFL.

 

[Rob0729]

Give some examples other than Harry (I would not count Thornton given the offense this year).

We don't draft WRs.

Mitchell was the last one we drafted prior to Harry, and for a 4th rounder, he ran precise routes and had good hands.

Before that we had a bunch of busts: Dobson, Taylor Price, etc. But these guys left after a couple years and never did anything with anyone else. I just think they weren't good. It had little to do with development. Young guys have succeeded here in the past.

If you can't play anywhere in the NFL, I think it's on you rather than the coaches.

I really don't know of any examples where a WR went elsewhere and developed unless of course they were underdrafted guys like Welker or Chris Hogan.

You look at other positions. LB is a position the Pat suck at developing. Uche is a hit. But what about all the other guys they drafted at LB or DE/LB? How TE? 2010 is a long time ago,

I think there are a lot of positions the Pats draft and don't develop players.

 

[upstater1]

You look at other positions. LB is a position the Pat suck at developing. Uche is a hit. But what about all the other guys they drafted at LB or DE/LB? How TE? 2010 is a long time ago,

I think there are a lot of positions the Pats draft and don't develop players.

I see Uche, Jennings, Bentley, Sam (X), Collins, Hightower

I just went back 10 years and I would say they are 5 of 6.

(I ignored the late rounders like Maluia, ****son, Beuharnais, even though they picked Elandon Roberts and Grugier-Hill in those rounds, good picks)

I'd say that's a good record.

Granted, they have expended resources on LBs since Hightower is a 1st rounder and Collins and Uche are 2nds.

But is this not a good record?

 

[Rob0729]

I see Uche, Jennings, Bentley, Sam (X), Collins, Hightower

I just went back 10 years and I would say they are 5 of 6.

(I ignored the late rounders like Maluia, ****son, Beuharnais, even though they picked Elandon Roberts and Grugier-Hill in those rounds, good picks)

I'd say that's a good record.

Granted, they have expended resources on LBs since Hightower is a 1st rounder and Collins and Uche are 2nds.

But is this not a good record?

You forgot McGrone, Perkins, and Winovich. Am talking recent years. Not a decade ago.

 

[upstater1]

You forgot McGrone, Perkins, and Winovich. Am talking recent years. Not a decade ago.

I'm not including McGrone because he's in his 2nd year and is with another team.

Winovich and Perkins played DE in college and were always only going to be DEs here. I would not consider them linebackers at all.

When I looked at the Patriots draft histories, they are listed as down linemen, not LBs. Winovich didn't cover, his job was to pass rush and set the edge. He couldn't set the edge. Perkins is purely a down lineman pass rusher.

Here's their draft history: New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[venecol]

How many of the teams that drafted those players are going to make the playoffs this year? Definitely the 49ers but the Titans, Commanders, Seahawks and Steelers are unlikely to make the playoffs.

What is more important to people wins or having a WR1?

Pats drafts the last two years have been really good, unless all you care about is yards put up by a number one receivers

Almost all of those teams have the same or better record than the Pats. Most of them can make the playoffs w/ Steelers having the least chance even if they win out. Obviously only 1 of WAS or SEA can make it. As others have said, the trend in the modern NFL is to have an elite WR1 that opponents have to game plan against. You do need a good QB to throw to these guys though. We should probably start there first.

 

[venecol]

I'd even throw Hernandez in there in that same draft. The guy was an elite talent and made an instant impact. He had a big career ahead of him.

It does seem Bill gets elite talent by accident (especially on offense) as he doesn't actively look for it as said by Chris Simms. He said Bill will take a player "he likes" over an elite talent all day.

You were doing fine until ...

 

[venecol]

I'm not including McGrone because he's in his 2nd year and is with another team.

Winovich and Perkins played DE in college and were always only going to be DEs here. I would not consider them linebackers at all.

When I looked at the Patriots draft histories, they are listed as down linemen, not LBs. Winovich didn't cover, his job was to pass rush and set the edge. He couldn't set the edge. Perkins is purely a down lineman pass rusher.

Here's their draft history: New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

You don't include players that were drafted and didn't pan out after 3 years because they're no longer on the team. You won't include Wino or Perkins because they're DEs (OLB) but do include Uche. Seems awfully convenient and disingenuous.