The fallacy of "uncatchable."

[pherein]

I can't believe there are people who can't tell the difference between a missed holding call (which happens all the time; I bet New Orleans got away with a bunch, too) and a call that was correctly flagged, then incorrectly picked up and explained away long after the fact by not one but two different B.S. stories.

As for karma, (which is idiotic and beneath you, Pherein) I'm pretty sure the Jets game took care of that.

Then again, every time NE gets a bad call, it's apparently all karma for one correct call 12 years ago, so maybe I just expect too much from fans.

I cant believe that people organize game changing penalties into fake and erroneous categories to make them feel better.
Its fantasy to say "well holding happens all the time, im sure they held 1000's of times, so this 1 time is completely equal , understandable, and means nothing, yahoo we win"
I have a dog at home that understands more right and wrong than that,lol.

The media understanding was different

The officiating Sunday was horrendous and unfortunately the Saints were on the wrong end too many times.

The two most egregious penalties came in the second and fourth quarter. In the second quarter, the Saints were trying to draw an offsides penalty and appeared to have done so when the Patriots lineman came across the line. The officials (inaccurately) saw differently. The Saints were having success moving the ball on that drive and that five yards could have cost them at the very least a field goal.

The other came in the fourth when Brees clearly called a timeout as the play clock was nearing zero. One of two things should have happened on that play. Either it's a timeout or a penalty. Neither occurred and as we saw the Patriots intercepted the ball and eventually kicked a field goal. The only (weak) explanation I could come up with was that the umpire behind the play didn't see Brees throw his hands up and they didn't see the delay of game.

Also in the second quarter on a 2nd & 19, Stevan Ridley caught a pass and was taken down clearly a yard short of the first down. The referee awarded the first down without measuring and the Patriots were able to run a quick play afterward before the Saints could challenge.

Other questionable calls included a personal foul call on Malcolm Jenkins where it looked like hit the receiver with his shoulder, a holding call on Brian de la Puente just before the Saints final touchdown pass and of course on the final play of the game, Nate Solder clearly hooked Junior Galette. Holding should have been called but I'm not at all surprised it was not in that situation.

It certainly was not the officials' best effort Sunday and that was disappointing.

AND NOLA opinion
As for the "hook seen around New Orleans" on the TD pass, I watched the replay at least 10 times of Junior Galette trying to rush Brady around the edge with Patriots left tackle Nate Solder on the blocking assignment.

I thought the screen shots many Saints fans sent me on Twitter after the game made Solder's hook appear more blatant than maybe it really was at a standstill. But as I watched the replay several times and I've come to this conclusion: I'm not sure if Galette would have hit Brady on the play if Solder hadn't hooked Galette. But the hook did happen, and last time I checked I would consider that holding.

I'm going to leave it at that.

Your argument is if its not seen its ok if it changes a game, which is ridicules. How are all those penalties not seen in 1 game? I have no clue, but we had to sit and watch it. Now we are 9-2 against a 10-1 seahawks, so it did changed the NFC, and allow the kittens to be closer to us. It had an effect, and changed the playoff map.
if all ref calls are corrected NE has 2 wins and 1 loss ( maybe vs NO),
But because of bad calls NE has 1 win and 2 losses ( they lose vs CAR, Jets on bad calls)
Because of bad calls NE is in a wildcard when they should be 8-2 and second seed with the Jets practically out of the playoff picture.
Karma statement is harsh but not beneath me. That is the feeling I got from most saints fans, even though they respect NE, and is directed at the Gronk PI, not the jets bs call.
Why we are "whining" and dont have a mountian of evidance to chat about this without being ostracized, and you have the right to think that nothing exist except that which effects your patriots, I will never understand. Its a double standard, and makes your fans look bad.

He has a point, and I only pooed into this discusion because uncle is right about a double standard. We forgot the NE game long ago, but here you are still talking about it on Sat ?

..and for guys ignoring, that is so wrong. Messeage boards are a way for you to work and clear your thoughts for yourself, your not here to convice anyone or win arguments, and if you are your posting for the wrong reason. If your so fragile, dont post at all.


In all honesty

Bumpity bump bump, because it's just those backwards sorry-ass Saints fans, right???

LOLOLOLOL

(In all honesty tough one to lose, the ball wasn't catchable to be PI but it certainly should've been defensive holding, IMO).

you can have these fans instead of us here.

 

[Uncle Meat]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/394474393868308480


That a better source?

Yeah, that's a better source. I still disagree that should have been called. I SAW the play. What did the refs have to say following the Panthers no-call, if we are going by what they say after the fact? If you are going by the letter of the law, you wouldn't get through any three plays without a holding call. The Jets pushing into the pile call would have been outrageously ticky-tack BS here, I say. The refs are just trying to clarify a rule that doesn't make much sense to anybody in the first place.

How about this play from the Jets game? Stephen Hill scores a TD, but the refs call offensive pass interference on the play. The refs take 7 points off the board, and the Jets ended up getting zero points on the drive. Is this right? All Hill really effectively did was put his hands on the guy, who jumped away from the play on his own volition. Looks like McCourty was acting, and that's why they threw that flag. I've seen much worse not called. Hill did not hinder McCourty's play on the ball or illegally create separation, really. If he didn't, the Jets were cheated. This call was ticky-tack at best.



Anyway, anybody that wants to blame the Patriots loss in this game on the fact that the Jets weren't called for pushing into the pile is being absolutely pathetic about the whole thing. The Pats offense was WAY more egregious, no matter what your take on the matter, for one thing. I don't like the rule at all, either, but it is what it is.

The Pats earned this loss, though. Anyone disagree with THAT?

 

[Pat Riot]

Re: Re: The fallacy of "uncatchable."

Sorry to rehash this but I think many are missing the true point to the Jets travesty. You do NOT make an obscure, first time ever called, muddled penalty on the last play of the game ever. EVER!!! THAT! is the referees making a conscious decision to affect the outcome of the game. Conversely, at the end of the Panther game the refs did what they almost do on or very close to the last play of the game, they let the penalty go as to not be a direct affect on the game result. One can argue whether that is the right way to officiate but one cannot argue that is the normal way. But to pull out this obscure F'n rule and use it for the first time ever at that point in a game??? An atrocious call by a ref who should never be near another Patriot game. And the smackmeat, d1ps#!ts passing off broken wind as intelligent banter is a microcosm as to what is wrong with so many aspects of society.
Bottom line, unequivocally, unarguably the Patriots were HOSED against the Jets.

Phew.....glad I got that off my chest.

You couldn't let this stupid argument die could you!?!

 

[Uncle Meat]

And the smackmeat, d1ps#!ts passing off broken wind as intelligent banter is a microcosm as to what is wrong with so many aspects of society.

Oh, come here and give me a big hug, you sensitive delicate little flower, you.

 

[Fixit]

I cant believe that people organize game changing penalties into fake and erroneous categories to make them feel better.
Its fantasy to say "well holding happens all the time, im sure they held 1000's of times, so this 1 time is completely equal , understandable, and means nothing, yahoo we win"
I have a dog at home that understands more right and wrong than that,lol.

The media understanding was different


Your argument is if its not seen its ok if it changes a game, which is ridicules. How are all those penalties not seen in 1 game? I have no clue, but we had to sit and watch it. Now we are 9-2 against a 10-1 seahawks, so it did changed the NFC, and allow the kittens to be closer to us. It had an effect, and changed the playoff map.
if all ref calls are corrected NE has 2 wins and 1 loss ( maybe vs NO),
But because of bad calls NE has 1 win and 2 losses ( they lose vs CAR, Jets on bad calls)
Because of bad calls NE is in a wildcard when they should be 8-2 and second seed with the Jets practically out of the playoff picture.
Karma statement is harsh but not beneath me. That is the feeling I got from most saints fans, even though they respect NE, and is directed at the Gronk PI, not the jets bs call.
Why we are "whining" and dont have a mountian of evidance to chat about this without being ostracized, and you have the right to think that nothing exist except that which effects your patriots, I will never understand. Its a double standard, and makes your fans look bad.

He has a point, and I only pooed into this discusion because uncle is right about a double standard. We forgot the NE game long ago, but here you are still talking about it on Sat ?

..and for guys ignoring, that is so wrong. Messeage boards are a way for you to work and clear your thoughts for yourself, your not here to convice anyone or win arguments, and if you are your posting for the wrong reason. If your so fragile, dont post at all.


In all honesty

you can have these fans instead of us here.

Oh, get over yourself, pherein. I can ignore who I want, when I want. I ignored him partially because he was annoying, but mostly because he was more interested in arguing a point than bothering to look it up. He was just here to say that NO got screwed, but the non-PI was the right call, too (and the Jets didn't do anything wrong ... "love tap"). If you're fragile enough to be upset by someone ignoring someone else, go back to the NO board. This is my message board preference, not yours.

You clearly have no idea what I'm talking about here. Let me sum it up with a question: Would the hold have been harder to stomach and move on from if it remained uncalled, or if they threw the flag, picked it up, and gave some rationalization that no one's ever heard before? Oh, and then the official explanation completely changed?

P.S. You must have a very smart dog. That comparison was totally called for, and I wasn't insulted at all. Thanks for clarifying for everyone both how and why they should post, too. We were lost before you came along. I thought that people who only wanted to clarify their thoughts did it in diaries.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Oh, come here and give me a big hug, you sensitive delicate little flower, you.

Oh man, the "delicate flower" argument (questioning one's masculinity so you can be the winner!). Personally I think that's an even better posting board tact than some of the other classics such as dissecting one's grammar. Well you are a winner and I bet a real asset to the Gang Green's discussions too.

 

[Fixit]

Oh man, the "delicate flower" argument (questioning one's masculinity so you can be the winner!). Personally I think that's an even better posting board tact than some of the other classics such as dissecting one's grammar. Well you are a winner and I bet a real asset to the Gang Green's discussions too.

Aw, he seems nice. Are they free hugs? Now I see why pherein's upset that I ignored such a high-quality poster. My shame is growing.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Oh man, the "delicate flower" argument (questioning one's masculinity so you can be the winner!). Personally I think that's an even better posting board tact than some of the other classics such as dissecting one's grammar. Well you are a winner and I bet a real asset to the Gang Green's discussions too.

I just thought you seemed like you needed a hug. Forgive me. Who said there was anything wrong with being a delicate little flower? Besides, what do you expect from a d1ps#!ts that demonstrates so many aspects of what's wrong with society?

 

[Uncle Meat]

He was just here to say that NO got screwed, but the non-PI was the right call, too

LOL, I didn't say that at all. I'm saying that if the Patriots got screwed, then they were also the beneficiaries of the Saints getting screwed so it evens out. How many times did I say it?

You having me on ignore is the same as talking to you, like talking to a wall. Then you claim that I don't listen. Kind of the very type of hypocrisy I've been alluding to.

 

[groganbootleg]

You gotta be kidding me. Solder was holding him the entire time. Look again:

So are you arguing that they should have thrown both flags and had offsetting penalties resulting in a replay of the down?

 

[Uncle Meat]

So are you arguing that they should have thrown both flags and had offsetting penalties resulting in a replay of the down?

No, I'm talking about two different plays in two different games, both being non-calls that affected the outcome of the game as time was expiring:

1) The hold in the Saints game that is in the GIF you quoted
2) The pass interference/hold in the Panthers game

My argument that is anyone (not just Pats fans) that wants to complain about the pass interference no-call in the Panthers game should look at the holding no-call in the Saints game. Both flags should have been thrown. One helped the Patriots just as much as the other one hurt them, at least. So it sort of evens itself out.

 

[Avenger]

there's never going to be 22 refs on the field so they will always miss things, but they have to call what they see, they saw it, threw the flag and then picked it up. If no flag was thrown at all there would be a whole lot less *****ing.