The 2012 season: the Jets [Mod Edit: STILL] suck

[Rob0729]

While Maybin has clearly benefited from very good secondary coverage he made more than a few sacks purely off speed. Of course having him on running plays was a liability but as a pure pass rush specialist he can be very dangerous and really cost the Jets nothing.

Pouha graded out as one of the best DT's in football while Devito is a great run stopper but underwhelming and Ellis and Wilk were rookies with no training camp. Wilkerson should take his game up a few notches this year after a very solid season for a rookie starting while Ellis will have to take the time to prove he isnt a bust. I think you could say the line is mediocre based off last year, not sure the worst the league is accurate. Hopefully the growth of the rookies and addition of Coples will change that.

The Jets largest problem last year outside of a lack of pressure was shoddy Safety play so if Landry and Bell can just be solid but unspectacular than that should also help solidify this D.

Not sure why the Pats fans seem to always throw stones at the D when it is by far the best thing about this team. Maybe the Offense and Special teams are too easy of targets...

Here is Maybin's highlight reel.

Aaron Maybin Highlights 2011 [HD] - YouTube

He had 5 sacks last year. The only two sacks you can argue he clearly beat his guy and made the sack was against Washington and Buffalo. His sack on Flacco was clearly a coverage sack and he was totally take out of the play initially. The sack on Rivers was because Rivers held onto the ball too long and Maybin was initially stopped on the play. The one against Miami was a coverage sack where Maybin dropped into coverage and Moore ran with the ball and Maybin was just the closest guy. I missed one other but it was a case it was a case of the QB holding onto the ball.

As for the Jets' d-line, they are good not great. There is zero pass rush out of the Jets' front seven. Wilkerson may turn into a very good player. We will have to wait to see. I am not high on Ellis. He was a big fish in a small pond in college and a lot of guys who dominate in Division 1AA struggle in the Pros because they dominate sub level talent.

I agree the Jets defense was the best thing about the team, but I felt the Jets defense was overrated last year and clearly not as good as their rankings. They gave up a lot of points last year (granted the poor play on offense and special teams constantly gave the Jets' defense bad field position).

 

[Rexorcism]

Ok, so is it just the biased Patriots fans and ESPN guys that are down on the dirty one? I don't think so.....



Plaxico doesn’t sound high on Sanchez or Tebow | ProFootballTalk

There are plenty of knocks on Sanchez but I think Plax's opinion of him is one of the last things I would ever use as a measuring stick. Plax was possibly the worst signing the Jets have made in years considering he was going to be the #2. The guy barely got his legs back by the end of the year and if not for his great leaping and catching ability would have been altogether useless. The Jets forcing him the ball repeatedly on the goal line inflated his stats in what really was an underwheliming year. Is Plax still a big body redzone threat? Of course. Is he an NFL caliber starting #2 WR? I don't think so.

 

[Deus Irae]

There are plenty of knocks on Sanchez but I think Plax's opinion of him is one of the last things I would ever use as a measuring stick. Plax was possibly the worst signing the Jets have made in years considering he was going to be the #2. The guy barely got his legs back by the end of the year and if not for his great leaping and catching ability would have been altogether useless. The Jets forcing him the ball repeatedly on the goal line inflated his stats in what really was an underwheliming year. Is Plax still a big body redzone threat? Of course. Is he an NFL caliber starting #2 WR? I don't think so.

Jets fans playing "Shoot the messenger" just isn't going to fly on this thread.

Also, your argument sucks anyway. Burress' physical skills weren't there last year, but that doesn't somehow mean he hasn't seen Super Bowl caliber QBs in his lifetime.

 

[BradyFTW!]

There are plenty of knocks on Sanchez but I think Plax's opinion of him is one of the last things I would ever use as a measuring stick. Plax was possibly the worst signing the Jets have made in years considering he was going to be the #2. The guy barely got his legs back by the end of the year and if not for his great leaping and catching ability would have been altogether useless. The Jets forcing him the ball repeatedly on the goal line inflated his stats in what really was an underwheliming year. Is Plax still a big body redzone threat? Of course. Is he an NFL caliber starting #2 WR? I don't think so.

Weird, all of the Jets fans that I heard from thought I was crazy for having that opinion of him, right up until the day he was no longer a Jet.

 

[Rob0729]

There are plenty of knocks on Sanchez but I think Plax's opinion of him is one of the last things I would ever use as a measuring stick. Plax was possibly the worst signing the Jets have made in years considering he was going to be the #2. The guy barely got his legs back by the end of the year and if not for his great leaping and catching ability would have been altogether useless. The Jets forcing him the ball repeatedly on the goal line inflated his stats in what really was an underwheliming year. Is Plax still a big body redzone threat? Of course. Is he an NFL caliber starting #2 WR? I don't think so.

You don't think Santonio Holmes shares the same opinion of Sanchez? For whatever the dog and pony show the Jets' PR department as created to show that Sanchez and Holmes are pals, I can guarantee you that Holmes feels the same way about Sanchez that Plax does. I am sure there are other guys in the locker room who feel the same way.

Wait until Sparano's system kicks into gear which is built to exploit Sanchez's weaknesses. Sanchez had problems reading defenses when he couldn't change the play based on the defense. I can't wait for him to think Holmes is supposed to run an out route and Holmes cuts in and see the fun there. I think there will be another Holmes implosion by mid season unless they have pulled Sanchez for Tebow by then.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Here is Maybin's highlight reel.

Aaron Maybin Highlights 2011 [HD] - YouTube

He had 5 sacks last year. The only two sacks you can argue he clearly beat his guy and made the sack was against Washington and Buffalo. His sack on Flacco was clearly a coverage sack and he was totally take out of the play initially. The sack on Rivers was because Rivers held onto the ball too long and Maybin was initially stopped on the play. The one against Miami was a coverage sack where Maybin dropped into coverage and Moore ran with the ball and Maybin was just the closest guy. I missed one other but it was a case it was a case of the QB holding onto the ball.

As for the Jets' d-line, they are good not great. There is zero pass rush out of the Jets' front seven. Wilkerson may turn into a very good player. We will have to wait to see. I am not high on Ellis. He was a big fish in a small pond in college and a lot of guys who dominate in Division 1AA struggle in the Pros because they dominate sub level talent.

I agree the Jets defense was the best thing about the team, but I felt the Jets defense was overrated last year and clearly not as good as their rankings. They gave up a lot of points last year (granted the poor play on offense and special teams constantly gave the Jets' defense bad field position).

Coverage sacks are still pretty useful. Part of why the Pats' pass rush improved last year, I think, was because if you held the ball long enough they would eventually get to you. Better than some years in the past where it sometimes seemed like you could give them 7-8 seconds and they still wouldn't get there half the time.

 

[Rexorcism]

Here is Maybin's highlight reel.

Aaron Maybin Highlights 2011 [HD] - YouTube

He had 5 sacks last year. The only two sacks you can argue he clearly beat his guy and made the sack was against Washington and Buffalo. His sack on Flacco was clearly a coverage sack and he was totally take out of the play initially. The sack on Rivers was because Rivers held onto the ball too long and Maybin was initially stopped on the play. The one against Miami was a coverage sack where Maybin dropped into coverage and Moore ran with the ball and Maybin was just the closest guy. I missed one other but it was a case it was a case of the QB holding onto the ball.

As for the Jets' d-line, they are good not great. There is zero pass rush out of the Jets' front seven. Wilkerson may turn into a very good player. We will have to wait to see. I am not high on Ellis. He was a big fish in a small pond in college and a lot of guys who dominate in Division 1AA struggle in the Pros because they dominate sub level talent.

I agree the Jets defense was the best thing about the team, but I felt the Jets defense was overrated last year and clearly not as good as their rankings. They gave up a lot of points last year (granted the poor play on offense and special teams constantly gave the Jets' defense bad field position).

He had 6 sacks and 4 forced fumbles, quite a few being game changers. While I admit a good amount were coverage sacks he was still able to get them. No Jets linebacker has speed like him and where the opposin QBs were forced to hold the ball way too long in the past and never really pay the price Maybin was actually able to get there. Production is production and it was more than we were getting out of the position previously.

Now I expect to the Patriots defense to be the typical unit they have had, the bend but dont break, give up a lot of yards but not a lot of points defense they are known for. I think the big difference between the two units is the Jets lean on their D to help their O and the Pats lean on their O to help their D. Two different philosphies but if any of the recent Pats draft picks on defense pan out it could be a very good unit. I'm just hoping that a step up in D line play and safety play can make the Jets defensive unit quite a bit better than last year, time will tell.

 

[Rexorcism]

Jets fans playing "Shoot the messenger" just isn't going to fly on this thread.

Also, your argument sucks anyway. Burress' physical skills weren't there last year, but that doesn't somehow mean he hasn't seen Super Bowl caliber QBs in his lifetime.

Not saying Buress doesn't know how to judge super bowl caliber QBs but when he can't get seperation as a WR and fill his end of the bargain I'm not going to give his opinion much weight.

Again, not saying Sanchez doesn't have many flaws, its pretty obvious he does.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not a PFF guy, at all...

However, because of the Burress comments, I went over to JestInsider to find a thread on it. Naturally, they were all bagging on Burress instead of looking at the "why". However, on the site was another thread, about Sanchez's supposed improvement over his first 3 years. In the thread was this tidbit:

...From 2010 to 2011, Sanchez’ quarterback rating remained virtually identical. However, his rating under pressure dropped from an already pretty wretched 51.9 to 37.4. This was due to being so fixated on the rush that he could see developing on the open side on a regular basis. Sanchez was pressured on 165 drop-backs last year and managed only 410 passing yards on those plays as he became a deer in the headlights and unable to make plays

New York Jets: Sanchize or Tebow-Time? | ProFootballFocus.com


Now, I don't buy into PFF, but that's just pathetic, if even remotely true.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not saying Buress doesn't know how to judge super bowl caliber QBs but when he can't get seperation as a WR and fill his end of the bargain I'm not going to give his opinion much weight.

Again, not saying Sanchez doesn't have many flaws, its pretty obvious he does.

But, again, that's a stupid argument. Sanchez' ability as a QB is distinct from his WRs' abilities. Plaxico has played in the SB with a SB caliber QB. He's played in the SB against a SB caliber QB. He knows SB caliber QBs.

 

[Rexorcism]

You don't think Santonio Holmes shares the same opinion of Sanchez? For whatever the dog and pony show the Jets' PR department as created to show that Sanchez and Holmes are pals, I can guarantee you that Holmes feels the same way about Sanchez that Plax does. I am sure there are other guys in the locker room who feel the same way.

Wait until Sparano's system kicks into gear which is built to exploit Sanchez's weaknesses. Sanchez had problems reading defenses when he couldn't change the play based on the defense. I can't wait for him to think Holmes is supposed to run an out route and Holmes cuts in and see the fun there. I think there will be another Holmes implosion by mid season unless they have pulled Sanchez for Tebow by then.

From reading a lot about the style of Soprano and the offense he is putting in as opposed to the Schotty O, I think this offense should really be one where Mark thrives. Santonio seems to feel the same way and that is already a good sign. Mark and him have been playing nice lately so we will see how it goes.

 

[Rexorcism]

But, again, that's a stupid argument. Sanchez' ability as a QB is distinct from his WRs' abilities. Plaxico has played in the SB with a SB caliber QB. He's played in the SB against a SB caliber QB. He knows SB caliber QBs.

Its just my opinion, I think LT not giving a great review was a lot more damaging, at least for me.

It is what it is, but while Plax didn't give him any credit he also didn't give him any blame.

 

[Deus Irae]

Its just my opinion, I think LT not giving a great review was a lot more damaging, at least for me.

It is what it is, but while Plax didn't give him any credit he also didn't give him any blame.

When your (now former) starting wideout, who's played in the SB, pointedly doesn't defend your QB when talking specifically about that QB as a possible SB quality QB, he's saying without saying.


You know this.

 

[Rexorcism]

I'm not a PFF guy, at all...

However, because of the Burress comments, I went over to JestInsider to find a thread on it. Naturally, they were all bagging on Burress instead of looking at the "why". However, on the site was another thread, about Sanchez's supposed improvement over his first 3 years. In the thread was this tidbit:



New York Jets: Sanchize or Tebow-Time? | ProFootballFocus.com


Now, I don't buy into PFF, but that's just pathetic, if even remotely true.

I think that article is partially accurate, Mark took a few big hits early in the season from the turnstyle that is Wayne Hunter and started to get jittery. Combine that with a Schotty offense that supposedly didn't give him many quick release options and you have the Sanchez of last year. Despite all of this however he did improve his numbers from 2010 and I can hope with the offensive overhaul he will put in a good year.

 

[Deus Irae]

From reading a lot about the style of Soprano and the offense he is putting in as opposed to the Schotty O, I think this offense should really be one where Mark thrives. Santonio seems to feel the same way and that is already a good sign. Mark and him have been playing nice lately so we will see how it goes.

In the first two seasons, the Jets were "ground and pound and limit Sanchez' need to read defenses in order to avoid mistakes". Jets fans pissed and moaned about the offense and Schottenheimer, despite getting into the playoffs and winning playoff games.

Last year, the Jets opened it up for Sanchez. Jets fans pissed and moaned about Schottenheimer and said things like "See? He can't change. He's too rigid and predictable.", "He should have stayed with ground and Pound." and the like

This year, the Jets will have Sporano and be "ground and pound and have Sanchez need to read defenses while avoiding mistakes". Jets fans think this is a great idea, for the moment. :bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

I think that article is partially accurate, Mark took a few big hits early in the season from the turnstyle that is Wayne Hunter and started to get jittery. Combine that with a Schotty offense that supposedly didn't give him many quick release options and you have the Sanchez of last year. Despite all of this however he did improve his numbers from 2010 and I can hope with the offensive overhaul he will put in a good year.

I've been bagging on Sanchez, and this might seem like I'm piling on, but it applies to every QB in the league last year, even though it does have the result of putting Sanchez down:

The specific numbers are all but meaningless, because the season was a fluke due to the lockout and the implementation of the rules changes in the fairly radical way that they were implemented and policed. What really matters is where the player fell among his peers.

 

[Rexorcism]

In the first two seasons, the Jets were "ground and pound and limit Sanchez' need to read defenses in order to avoid mistakes". Jets fans pissed and moaned about the offense and Schottenheimer, despite getting into the playoffs and winning playoff games.

Last year, the Jets opened it up for Sanchez. Jets fans pissed and moaned about Schottenheimer and said things like "See? He can't change. He's too rigid and predictable.", "He should have stayed with ground and Pound." and the like

This year, the Jets will have Sporano and be "ground and pound and have Sanchez need to read defenses while avoiding mistakes". Jets fans think this is a great idea, for the moment. :bricks:

I guess the guy that calls Sparano "Sporano" knows better than anyone.

The reality is I have no clue, from everything I have read it seems to be a better fit but all the matters is what happens on the field this season. Just have to wait and see.

 

[Rexorcism]

I've been bagging on Sanchez, and this might seem like I'm piling on, but it applies to every QB in the league last year, even though it does have the result of putting Sanchez down:

The specific numbers are all but meaningless, because the season was a fluke due to the lockout and the implementation of the rules changes in the fairly radical way that they were implemented and policed. What really matters is where the player fell among his peers.

Bad O line play turns good QBs to trash. Look at the regression of Sam Bradford and Josh Freeman. While the Jets line was still better than both of theirs I hope the new blocking schemes help cut down on those brutal hits and Sanchez's play improves.

 

[patfanken]

Here's the crux of the fallacy most Jet fans have when assessing their team. They think they have had a great off season. They love Coples. They, along with their HC have already anointed Hill a on of their starting WR's. They think Demario Davis is the next Ray Lewis, and ALL their low round players will be significant contributors this season. And as for the 2 main FA pick ups......BEASTS is the only word that describes their talent.

But hey, you can count all that as typical fan optimism. We see plenty of that here. No crime liking your off season pick ups. But here's the problem. As I said most of them look at their additions and hopefully think they have filled a lot of their holes. Their team has improved, ergo, their record next season MUST be better.

This is what they never consider. Yes the Jets have improved the talent level of their team....no doubt. BUT so has EVERY other team in the league. AND most have improved at a greater rate (at least on paper). No other team in the league has fans who look at their team in a vacuum like Jets fans

They "assume" that all their rookies will pan out, while NONE of the rookies of other teams will be a factor, Your FA pickups are bums, while all their FA's are STUDS.

Here's another thing Jet fans never consider. Injuries. In the last 3 years the Jets have been relatively free of the key injuries that most teams deal with on a regular basis. They have been either extraordinarily lucky, or we should be hiring the guys who prepare them for the season.

Last year the Jets OL lost just 3 starter games along the OL (compared to 32 for the Pats). The Pats lost BOTH their best interior pass rushers (Wright and Pryor for the season, while the Jets lost just a few games from their DL all season. Both CB's never missed a game and we lost 2 of our top 4, etc, etc, etc.

Should the pendulum swing back and the Jets encounter the kind of injuries that plagued the Pats, Bills, Steelers, Rams, etc, their season could go down the hopper at a rapid rate. They lost Mangold for 2 games and their OL just fell apart for those games

Other points I've seen from the last few pages worth commenting on.

Maybin - will someday lead the league in coverage sacks. He's not even close to being an elite rushing threat. He's no one that another team would look to double team or chip. He is only effective running around OT's, but his route is so circuitous, he's only gets near the QB if they take too long to find a receiver.

Another telling stat about the so called "dominant" Jet defense most jet fans refuse to acknowledge. That defense allow their opponents to score over 30 points in 5 of their 16 games compared to only 1 by the "historically bad" Pats D. Just saying....

 

[Rob0729]

From reading a lot about the style of Soprano and the offense he is putting in as opposed to the Schotty O, I think this offense should really be one where Mark thrives. Santonio seems to feel the same way and that is already a good sign. Mark and him have been playing nice lately so we will see how it goes.

First, when has a Sparano passing offense allowed any QB to thrive? Don't use Dallas because Sparano had nothing to do with the passing game or Romo's development. Todd Haley was responsible for the passing game in Dallas and Sparano focused solely on the running game. The offense in Miami was miserable the entire time Sparano was there.

Second, early results have been poor. I know it is only mini camps and OTAs, but Sanchez completed like 30% of his passes during those sessions.

Third, I think what Sparano is looking to do is the worst thing for Sanchez's skill sets. Sure Holmes is happy because it is radically different from Schottenheimer's offense which he hated, but this requires Sanchez to diagnose the defense before the play and make the same reads as his receivers. From what I can see, Sanchez struggles to read defenses. If he does, that is a prescription for disaster. That is the same reason Ochocinco was shipped out of town for the Pats.