PATRIOTS NEWS Terrell Williams is Vrabel's Defensive Coordinator

[upstater1]

The whole letting Jacobi go, then signing JJSS situation was absolutely mind boggling

And, according to Callahan, that was the idea of the guys we still currently employ, an idea that Belichick eventually went along with in the spirit of "collaboration" even though he wanted Jakobi instead.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Duggar is not a FS. His coverage skills are awful. He’s just not fluid enough.

We disagree on this. Duggars was taken of his athleticism. His 40 time was top 25%, and the explosive measurements were 97%. He’s a great athlete, and if the secondary gets strong coaching and play as a unit Duggars will be a really good FS.

 

[PatsFan2]

We disagree on this. Duggars was taken of his athleticism. His 40 time was top 25%, and the explosive measurements were 97%. He’s a great athlete, and if the secondary gets strong coaching and play as a unit Duggars will be a really good FS.

Not against the better Defenses he plays like he's running in sand.

 

[PWRxWLF]

We disagree on this. Duggars was taken of his athleticism. His 40 time was top 25%, and the explosive measurements were 97%. He’s a great athlete, and if the secondary gets strong coaching and play as a unit Duggars will be a really good FS.

No doubt that he’s athletic, but he doesnt have the fluidity or bend to play fs. Watching him flip his hips in coverage is not pretty.

 

[upstater1]

Not against the better Defenses he plays like he's running in sand.

Guy had torn ligaments which the doctors/trainers didn't diagnose.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No doubt that he’s athletic, but he doesnt have the fluidity or bend to play fs. Watching him flip his hips in coverage is not pretty.

Hes Patrick Chung. Hes fine when the play is in front of him but when he turns his back or is on someone who is shifty he is exposed. He does have coverage skills. Quite frankly I think he needs better coaching or a coach that knows how to use his skills properly.

Needs to play closer to the box and only should be in man inside 15 yards of the LoS.

 

[Ring 6]

Hes Patrick Chung. Hes fine when the play is in front of him but when he turns his back or is on someone who is shifty he is exposed. He does have coverage skills. Quite frankly I think he needs better coaching or a coach that knows how to use his skills properly.

Needs to play closer to the box and only should be in man inside 15 yards of the LoS.

He was certainly misused this year. Like any player if you put him in a position to use his strengths he will be better than when you put him in a position where his weakness is exposed.

One point on your comment, you can’t control where you play man, the man you are assigned could run any route. More appropriate would be that he shouldn’t be playing man on WRs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was certainly misused this year. Like any player if you put him in a position to use his strengths he will be better than when you put him in a position where his weakness is exposed.

...and that is what happened.

One point on your comment, you can’t control where you play man, the man you are assigned could run any route. More appropriate would be that he shouldn’t be playing man on WRs.

Yep- agree.

 

[upstater1]

Hes Patrick Chung. Hes fine when the play is in front of him but when he turns his back or is on someone who is shifty he is exposed. He does have coverage skills. Quite frankly I think he needs better coaching or a coach that knows how to use his skills properly.

Needs to play closer to the box and only should be in man inside 15 yards of the LoS.

So, what accounts for all his INTs and pick 6s and plays downfield in 2022?
Luck?

 

[RobertWeathers]

So, what accounts for all his INTs and pick 6s and plays downfield in 2022?
Luck?

Hes fine when the play is in front of him

 

[upstater1]

Vrabel's defenses in Tennessee were always ranked toward the bottom of the league in giving up a lot of yards.

But they ranked at the top of the league in terms of giving up points.

These stats might remind us of Belichick's bend but don't break.

So it's interesting to hear that he employs a penetrating 4-2-5 defense instead of Belichick's 3-3.

Rush then bend but don't break?

It sounds to me like they're going to give up passes in the short part of the field and keep everything in front.

I'm fine with that. I know people are going to blast Peppers, Dugger, Tavai and Bentley for not covering, but if you're blitzing upfield and leaving 2 LBs and 2 safeties back there to do the work, you'll be exploited, especially against the Bills because this is what they like to do.

Again, I'm fine if it means you're just giving up field goals.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Vrabel's defenses in Tennessee were always ranked toward the bottom of the league in giving up a lot of yards.

But they ranked at the top of the league in terms of giving up points.

These stats might remind us of Belichick's bend but don't break.

So it's interesting to hear that he employs a penetrating 4-2-5 defense instead of Belichick's 3-3.

Rush then bend but don't break?

It sounds to me like they're going to give up passes in the short part of the field and keep everything in front.

I'm fine with that. I know people are going to blast Peppers, Dugger, Tavai and Bentley for not covering, but if you're blitzing upfield and leaving 2 LBs and 2 safeties back there to do the work, you'll be exploited, especially against the Bills because this is what they like to do.

Again, I'm fine if it means you're just giving up field goals.

They’re attacking but not necessarily blitzing. First off, just moving to a 1 gap scheme will make a defense more attacking on principle ( with the requisite downside risk in the running game). But one thing Lazar pointed out was the number of simulated pressures through, essentially, forms of zone blitzes. One example given was the slot corner blitzing, the free safety then jumping to cover the slot receiver, the strong safety then jumping back to be the single high guy, and a defense end falling back and playing a hybrid safety/linebacker role.

Now Belichick would do this from time to time (they all do), but the Titans used this type of approach much more often than others, partly because of doing it on all 3 downs and not just 3rd down. So ultimately still only 4 rushers, but varied from where it comes from, and coming from a 1 gap scheme on all downs accelerating everything. To get this to work you’ll need more athletic players — likely a true sideline to sideline linebacker, more athletic defensive ends, and strong safeties that have range. Both Dugger’s and Peppers’ skill set might play out well here.

 

[Zuma]

 

[Hugepatsfan]

We disagree on this. Duggars was taken of his athleticism. His 40 time was top 25%, and the explosive measurements were 97%. He’s a great athlete, and if the secondary gets strong coaching and play as a unit Duggars will be a really good FS.

Agreed he's a great athlete but that doesn't mean he's a FS. He's not really comfortable using his athleticism in that role. He's much better using that speed and explosion to make plays moving forward towards the line of scrimmage. Backpedaling and reading the QBs eyes while covering the deep part of the field isn't really his game. It's not about his athleticism to be able to do that or not, it's simply not the way he's wired.

 

[Huckleberry1]

They’re attacking but not necessarily blitzing. First off, just moving to a 1 gap scheme will make a defense more attacking on principle ( with the requisite downside risk in the running game). But one thing Lazar pointed out was the number of simulated pressures through, essentially, forms of zone blitzes. One example given was the slot corner blitzing, the free safety then jumping to cover the slot receiver, the strong safety then jumping back to be the single high guy, and a defense end falling back and playing a hybrid safety/linebacker role.

Now Belichick would do this from time to time (they all do), but the Titans used this type of approach much more often than others, partly because of doing it on all 3 downs and not just 3rd down. So ultimately still only 4 rushers, but varied from where it comes from, and coming from a 1 gap scheme on all downs accelerating everything. To get this to work you’ll need more athletic players — likely a true sideline to sideline linebacker, more athletic defensive ends, and strong safeties that have range. Both Dugger’s and Peppers’ skill set might play out well here.

Good post.

 

[dliverey44]

They’re attacking but not necessarily blitzing. First off, just moving to a 1 gap scheme will make a defense more attacking on principle ( with the requisite downside risk in the running game). But one thing Lazar pointed out was the number of simulated pressures through, essentially, forms of zone blitzes. One example given was the slot corner blitzing, the free safety then jumping to cover the slot receiver, the strong safety then jumping back to be the single high guy, and a defense end falling back and playing a hybrid safety/linebacker role.

Now Belichick would do this from time to time (they all do), but the Titans used this type of approach much more often than others, partly because of doing it on all 3 downs and not just 3rd down. So ultimately still only 4 rushers, but varied from where it comes from, and coming from a 1 gap scheme on all downs accelerating everything. To get this to work you’ll need more athletic players — likely a true sideline to sideline linebacker, more athletic defensive ends, and strong safeties that have range. Both Dugger’s and Peppers’ skill set might play out well here.

I think that they are going to spend alot of resources on the defense in FA and draft. That doesn't mean they will ignore the offense, but given that they want to change defensive philosophy they need different players because most of their current personnel aside from white and Barmore do not fit well into the over/under 4-2-5.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I think that they are going to spend alot of resources on the defense in FA and draft. That doesn't mean they will ignore the offense, but given that they want to change defensive philosophy they need different players because most of their current personnel aside from white and Barmore do not fit well into the over/under 4-2-5.

I think the secondary will be ok. That is, I think we need a CB2 and ideally a rangy free safety regardless of what scheme we used. But I think Gonzo, Marcus Jones, Dugger and Peppers can all thrive in the new scheme.

With the front 7, I completely agree with you. Godchaux, Wise, Tavai, Bentley and Jennings don’t really fit. I don’t think they’ll move away from all of them in one offseason, it might be too much at once. For example, Bentley is very well respected as a leader and plays very hard each play even if he’s not the most athletic guy. But Wise is a free agent and already on the decline so he’s easy to let go, Tavai is persona non grata in general and an inferior version of Bentley specifically, and Godchaux’s best skill set will be completely unused. I can see that group jettisoned.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So, what accounts for all his INTs and pick 6s and plays downfield in 2022?
Luck?

Kyle Arrington had 7 INT's in 2011, yet he wasn't a good outside CB. Got kicked inside the moment they got Talib.

Devin McCourty also had 7 INT's in 2010, but he was showing signs he was pretty bad in coverage as CB. So bad he was giving up yards at a historic rate in 2011 and eventually switched to FS only because Chung got injured in 2012.

Dugger got his stats by playing a short field while McCourty and Phillips were deep. Once they left, his stats plummeted.

There have been many defensive players that have put up fluke stats for a year.

 

[Sciz]

Godchaux was a one-gap nose tackle his first couple of years with the Dolphins. Terrell Williams was his position coach in 2017. He’ll be fine.

 

[Real fan 02]

Hes Patrick Chung. Hes fine when the play is in front of him but when he turns his back or is on someone who is shifty he is exposed. He does have coverage skills. Quite frankly I think he needs better coaching or a coach that knows how to use his skills properly.

Needs to play closer to the box and only should be in man inside 15 yards of the LoS.

Absolutely.. in 2022 Dugger was at an all pro level with his play. Mapu seems like he has the FS role.. providing he can stay healthy and continue to play well.. Dugger is a force when he's up around the line.. 8-10 yards...S. Belichick and pelligrino are gone so Vrabel and Williams I'm sure will get a safeties coach in here that can help take Duggers game to the next level.