Tebow to Pats rumor

[MoLewisrocks]

The talk of Tebow coming here is fun, but I don't see it happening.

It's only fun if you have a perverse sense of what fun is...

I think Josh and BB might be interested in carrying him, trading Mallett and using Tim as a Wildcat kind of alternative in the backfield to take some heat off of Brady situationally, but it's very unlikely that it would ever come to pass (no pun intended)

I think even the owner touched on why that will never happen here in the Brady era...you don't take the ball out of the hands of your best playmaker who happens to be a HOF QB.

Here's my logic:

1) Elway got his "Get out of Tebowmania Jail Free" card yesterday and he'll be cashing it in as the ink dries on Peyton's contract.

2) I doubt Elway cares where he sends Tebow, so he'll take the best deal for the Broncos, which won't necessarily be the best deal for Tim. (Welcome to the NFL!)

3) Tebow is probably worth more to the Jaguars than any of the other rumored "contenders." Moribund franchise, 25--39 since its last Playoff appearance five years ago and with 10,000 seats permanently covered at EverBank Field. Pumped-up new owner in Shahid Khan. Tebow is wildly popular in the area after playing his college ball in the neighborhood. He would bring instant life to the Jaguars. Chad Henne's contract isn't that big ($2.5 MM this year and $4MM or so next) and he will just have to deal with it. This would be Khan's "statement" move as new owner.

4) I don't see the Pats getting into a bidding war with Khan. I could see BB offering a 5th rounder, but Khan will probably be ready to go at least as high as a third round pick to get him. If Elway can play the Dolphins and Jaguars off against each other, Khan might even be willing to give up a second rounder.

The Jaguars have a problem in the form of a GM Khan retained and has professed utmost confidence in who would likely have to be replaced if Tebow is acquired because he is that dead set against it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That's misrepresenting it to make it look like McDaniels had to jump ahead of BB to grab Tebow, fact is BB had the 22nd pick, traded back to 24, the pick used to choose Tebow and then traded that back to 27. BB had plenty of opportunities to take Tebow if he wanted and he did not.

The are allowed 30 visits from out of region potential draftees and you say you could count on one hand how many draftees BB has treated the same way. My question is, how would you know that? It only becomes a story when Tebow is involved and Bill oddly makes no effort not to allow it to...

Clarified that for you...

I think Bill likes the kid as a human being and all in (albeit raw/limited talent wise) as a football player and he was doing him and Meyer and even himself a solid by boosting his sagging draft stock.

 

[Calciumee]

Clarified that for you...

I think Bill likes the kid as a human being and all in (albeit raw/limited talent wise) as a football player and he was doing him and Meyer and even himself a solid by boosting his sagging draft stock.

Could he not have been talking to him about Hernandez? Or even Spikes and Cunningham?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That's misrepresenting it to make it look like McDaniels had to jump ahead of BB to grab Tebow, fact is BB had the 22nd pick, traded back to 24, the pick used to choose Tebow and then traded that back to 27. BB had plenty of opportunities to take Tebow if he wanted and he did not.

The are allowed 30 visits from out of region potential draftees and you say you could count on one hand how many draftees BB has treated the same way. My question is, how would you know that? It only becomes a story when Tebow is involved.

I'm just describing what Josh did and guessing at his motivation; I don't think that misrepresents anything.

It's a fact that, after he grabbbed Demaryius Thomas at 22, he traded up to 25 (not 24, which the Pats traded to Dallas who took Dez Bryant) to take Tebow and it's also a fact that none of the other teams from 26 to 42 were hot on Tebow. Josh's rationale behind that fact vis a vis Belichick is a question to which only Josh knows the answer and he ain't talking. It's pretty clear that I'm guessing, but it's a fair guess and not a misrepresentation of anything. You are free to disagree and you might well be right.

That was a complex set of trades. Belichick was focused on milking as much value as possible from them and ended up trading out of the 22nd and 24th slots and holding the 27th and then ended up with McCourty and Hernandez for his efforts at the end of the Draft...not bad...

(I know that I could "count on one hand how many draftees BB has treated the same way" because it's a fact that I know that I can barely do so. Tebow is the only one of which I am aware. Maybe you're right as to the reason, but it doesn't change the fact that that's all I happen to know.)

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Clarified that for you...

I think Bill likes the kid as a human being and all in (albeit raw/limited talent wise) as a football player and he was doing him and Meyer and even himself a solid by boosting his sagging draft stock.

I gotta believe he had some kind of motivation, whether it be to boost Tebow's stock or his own draft pick value (and it could be argued it worked). Allowing the media to tag along to the North End doesn't seem like Belichick's style.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think Mallet is likely to overtake Hoyer if they both stay. But I don't see Mallet overtaking Brady for the next 3 years -- its possible but not probable. So I'd rather take Tebow being a contributor today + Tebow's potential over Mallet's potential.

I think it's unlikely Mallett overtakes Hoyer if they both stay. I don't see either overtaking Brady for the next 30 years. That said, Tebow wouldn't even be a viable backup here (and Mallett may not be either) and he has little to nothing to contribute here because any usage takes an actual proven playmaker within this system off the field.

Mallett has something Brady and Hoyer and Tebow will never have. Same thing Drew did. Doesn't really factor into the equation here. There is no basis to believe either he or Tebow have the one thing Brady and even Hoyer had that Bledsoe didn't. The ability to read complex defenses and make good decisions under pressure in real time and make all the throws acurately. I'm sure they can all diagnose plays on film or at the board. But so could Chad Jackson. It's that ability to process myriad information in a split second and do the right thing that seperates Patriots type playrs from ultimately non Patriots...and moreso at QB than any other position.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

look, it's understandable that you are obviously a huge Tim Tebow fan but that post borders on the ridiculous...in a playoff game versus the Patriots, who were the THIRTY FIRST ranked defense at that time, Tim Tebow threw a flabbergasting NINE completions out of 26 attempts for 136 yards...that has to rank in the top 10 worst playoff passing performances in NFL history....Tebow can "throw" the damn ball...the problem is no one knows where it's going most of the time.

That loss to the Pats can be explained partly by the fact that, for the first time that season, the Pats defense employed widespread use of stunts against the Broncos. With the O-line being as bad as it was, Denver simply prepared the wrong way for the Pats. Ignoring for a moment that the Broncos are simply no where near the level of the Patriots, in any of the three major areas, the Patriots' element of surprise here completely negated whatever tricks the Broncos might have designed for them.

Compounding that is the fact the game was played in the Razor. How many teams have had success there over the years?

No, the Patriots absolutely destroyed them, but given the make up of the two teams, that's as it should have been. A perennial powerhouse abusing a neophyte interloper who surprised everyone, including themselves, by being there when perhaps they really shouldn't have been pretty much pre-ordained the outcome.

The Patriots are much, much better that Denver, but the simple fact of the matter is, every team that was in the playoffs last year had flaws.

It's irresponsible to take away from Denver's effort against Pittsburgh. **** Lebeau tried mightily to mask his team's deficiencies against them, but in the end, it didn't work. Credit where credit due, huh?

As Mike Klis, writing in today's Denver Post, states in his first sentence of his article, "More than any one player, coach or executive, Tim Tebow made the Broncos relevant in 2011".

What more can you ask of the guy?

 

[IllegalContact]

he has no place here.

If there is anyplace for him right now, it would be with the dolphins, but even there, Tebow+Ireland could be an even bigger turnoff to potential FA's than Ireland alone

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If Mallet was a sure thing as some people here believe, he wouldn't have dropped to the 3rd round even with the rumors.

Mallet has potential, but we won't see whether he realizes it for another 3 years. If you could flip Mallet today for a 1st,2nd round pick I'd do it -- or flip him for a player equivalent for a 1st,2nd -- whether its Tebow or a non qb contributor.
And by the time Mallet has the opportunity to be a starter on this team, he'll be hitting restricted free agent status and he'll no longer be a bargain in the way Brady was his first few years.

The question about Tebow is basically is this what he is, or does he have room to improve. If you think Mallet has room to improve, then Tebow should as well -- and if Tebow isn't in a situation where he needs to win every game, he can focus on learning to be a better passer -- turning him into a better version of Vick.

The problems with your theory are if Mallett has potential to be a starting QB within 3 years he will be worth a 1st or 2nd while having served as a viable backup here for a couple of seasons to boot. While Tebow isn't worth much in trade other than as a drawing card we don't need in NE and he won't be able to improve even as Vick at times appears to have because he won't be getting the reps to either in live action or practice because all of those essentially go to Brady here (as they did and will again to Manning in Denver because those guys are focused on winning this season).

Guys who need to be rebuilt are really a developmental crap shoot for that reason. That is also why guys like Brady and Cassel and Hoyer make better backups. They don't need to be retooled mechanically or rewired mentally. They may never be elite, but they are highly functional out of the gate. High floor, potentially limited ceiling. Vs. low floor and unknown but potentially high ceiling.

Barring catastrophy Brady's replacement is still in college and he's likely not high on anyone's radar as a potential franchise QB. And it's debatable whether he or the guy who comes after him or any guy for that matter actually ever replaces Brady. Could see a series of guys like Cassel and Hoyer brought back here as stop gaps after they wear out their welcome on teams that expected them to be Bradyesque signings on mismanaged and poorly coached teams.

 

[VrabelJr]

The Jaguars have a problem in the form of a GM Khan retained and has professed utmost confidence in who would likely have to be replaced if Tebow is acquired because he is that dead set against it.

Ummm Gene Smith is one of the better GMs in the league.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

As Mike Klis, writing in today's Denver Post, states in his first sentence of his article, "More than any one player, coach or executive, Tim Tebow made the Broncos relevant in 2011".

What more can you ask of the guy?

That's all well and good for teams seeking relevance by any means. We aren't. We are relevant because we win - a lot. Winning makes you relevant, but in it's absence splashy signings are used by desperate teams with GM's who want to keep their jobs and owners having problems with their bottom line.

 

[VrabelJr]

Barring catastrophy Brady's replacement is still in college and he's likely not high on anyone's radar as a potential franchise QB. And it's debatable whether he or the guy who comes after him or any guy for that matter actually ever replaces Brady. Could see a series of guys like Cassel and Hoyer brought back here as stop gaps after they wear out their welcome on teams that expected them to be Bradyesque signings on mismanaged and poorly coached teams.

Right, because all franchise QBs and Hall of Famers come out of no where and overcome the odds with a fantastic fairy tale story.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The Jaguars have a problem in the form of a GM Khan retained and has professed utmost confidence in who would likely have to be replaced if Tebow is acquired because he is that dead set against it.

We're way into the realm of speculation here, but somehow I don't think a guy who built a $3 billion company from scratch after starting with a $50,000 SBA Loan is going to worry too much about Gene Smith if he has a chance to jack up Season Ticket and Merchandise sales when the team is 20--28 since he took over as GM, with the trend in the wrong direction.

To your other points:

Yeah, I guess I do have a perverse sense of humor.

As to your substantive point about not taking the ball out of Brady's hands, let me first of all say that I don't think that Tebow is coming to Foxboro. I'm not even sure that it would be a good thing, but the topic is at least interesting.

Yeah, I guess you could even argue that if you have a Brady you should let him alone determine the success of every important play you run on offense. That's sort of a debate stopper.

It's always hard to make an argument that seems to slight the King, because people jump on you so fast, but I'm not sure that the Pats couldn't benefit from being able to show a different look in critical situations. It's coming up on eight years now since the Pats kept the ball on offense long enough to win the last game of the season. Looking back at 2007 and 2011, you can make the argument that they were two first downs away from five rings.

I'm not saying they should get Tebow, but what's wrong with talking about giving opponents another look at key moments, or at least fielding another option about which they have to worry?

 

[Deus Irae]

...What more can you ask of the guy?

As has already been demonstrated by the fact that Tebow's success didn't shut up the critics, the Tebow stuff's not based upon football, so "ask" has nothing to do with it.

He'll never be drafted as a QB
He'll never be drafted high
He'll never make a roster as a QB
He'll never start a game as a QB
He'll never win a game as a QB
He'll never be a winning QB in the NFL
He'll never be good enough to get his team to the playoffs
He'll never win a playoff game

His first "full" season as a starter, he killed all those arguments. Still, you get a bunch of people bashing him for everything. You're wasting your time trying to be rational with those people, because they're opinions aren't based on anything rational.

There are lots of questions about Tebow moving forward. But when you get the people attacking what he did last year as if he did nothing and his team just magically turned on some switch that had been there for years, you know you're wasting your time because those people are coming from a place of emotional prejudice, and aren't being honest in their evaluations as a result. It's why this thread is going strong after more than 400 posts about a player who'd be nothing but a backup or gimmick player if he did come to New England.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

That's all well and good for teams seeking relevance by any means. We aren't. We are relevant because we win - a lot. Winning makes you relevant, but in it's absence splashy signings are used by desperate teams with GM's who want to keep their jobs and owners having problems with their bottom line.

We know that, Mo, we all know that.

That wasn't the point.

Denver had just come off a long stretch where they were arguably the worst team in football, with no present prospects and zero chance at a playoff spot.

The gentleman from Gainesville changed all that.

This whole hoopla demonstrated on this thread isn't really about Tebow coming to Foxboro - admit it. It's about Tebow irking a lot of people by being successful out of the box. Whether he comes to the Patriots or not is really irrelevant at this point. As we argue the pros and cons of a scenario that may, but won't likely, come to pass, there is altogether too much denigration of his past efforts and successes, and that's what disturbs me most of all.

Not necessarily you, Mo, but there are too many revisionists here who are willfully blind to what the past season produced, and seem to think that the next decade will play out exactly as season 2012 did.

In any event, we'll all get to see how this saga plays out. That, in itself, should be plenty entertaining!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Ummm Gene Smith is one of the better GMs in the league.

I'm not familiar enough with him to comment on that but the fact remains he is dead set against acquiring Tebow and unless Khan wants to part company with the GM he spoke glowingly of and retained in ownership transition they won't be trading for Tebow. Smith drafted Gabbert and is committed to starting him and/or continuing to run the offense they installed last season with a backup like Henne at the helm. Tebow would come there as either the 3rd QB (because he has yet to run a pro offense) or they would be scrapping the offense as Fox ultimately chose to in order to play him last season.

If Denver (and Fox or Elway) thought they had a shot at turning Tebow into a viable pocket passer in the next 2-3 off seasons they likely wouldn't be looking to trade him. It's just that if you have one (and a HOF'er at that) and are determined to win now there is no opportunity to even attempt the level of development Tebow would still require. And if you don't have one Tebow poses too much of a QB controversey that could land you in the same position as Fox and Elway last season.

 

[Ron Sellers]

For what it's worth there is a segment of every NFL fan base that is convinced Tebow will, or should become a member of their team.

Tim Tebow Trade Rumors: Bills Speculated As Top Team For QB
Tim Tebow Poll Results: New York Jets Fans Want Tebow | NYC
Tebow to Dolphins next? | CBS Miami

Peter King Thinks Tim Tebow Is A Fit In Baltimore | Baltimore Sports Report
Tim Tebow Trade Rumors: Pittsburgh Steelers Presented As Longshot For Broncos Quarterback
PFT: Bengals #3 on places for Tebow - Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards
Cleveland Fan: Tim Tebow to Browns Not an Absurd Idea - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

What about Tebow? - Houston Texans Message Boards
Brad Paisley Suggests Tim Tebow Choose Tennessee | WBWN
Tim Tebow Trade Rumors: Jacksonville Jaguars - 03-19-2012
How About Tim Tebow to the Colts?

Broncos should keep Tim Tebow regardless if they sign Peyton Manning | First-and-Orange | Denver Post
Chiefs Tim Tebow to KC? - ChiefsPlanet
Tebow Time in San Diego? | Chargers.com - forums
Tim Tebow Heading to the Oakland Raiders?

New York Giants Message Boards - I want TEBOW...
Dallas Cowboys should trade for Tim Tebow | Mac Engel | Dallas Star-Telegram
Why Tim Tebow Would Interest The Eagles
Hey, what about Tim Tebow? - Hard Hits - The Washington Post

Green Bay floated as a Tim Tebow destination | ProFootballTalk
Peyton Manning's new place is Denver; could Tim Tebow pique Lions' interest? | Detroit Free Press
Where will Tim Tebow end up for his next stop? - chicagotribune.com
Tim Tebow Trade To The Minnesota Vikings? Well Maybe It's A Possibility If... - SB Nation Minnesota

Maybe the Saints will trade for Tim Tebow. | New Orleans Saints football @ TigerDroppings.com
Should the Falcons pursue Tim Tebow? | Atlanta Falcons | The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Tebow As Our Backup QB - Carolina Huddle
Tebow-Time in Tampa Bay? Why Tim Tebow Coming to the Bucs Makes Some Sense - Bucs Nation

Tim Tebow to 49ers - could Denver Bronco's star be on Niners radar? - San Jose Mercury News
Tebow? - Arizona Cardinals Forums
Manning out. Tebow… Kolb… Gabbert… in? « Seahawks Draft Blog
Tebow to Rams.... | Sports Forums - Rams Talk

 

[JoeSixPat]

Difference between Hernandez, Vrabel, Troy Brown and Tebow is the first three all had important roles with the team to start with and then in addition, also had the ability to contribute at a secondary position.

Tebow, on the other hand, cannot play QB, cannot play in NE's offense, both Belichick and Caserio have said that they evaluated Tebow as a quarterback only and nothing else. He is unproven at any other position and would require compensation to acquire.

It doesn't make sense on any level.

Yeah... I realized after the fact that that was the point ausbacker was trying to make...

So knowing we're dealing in hypotheticals, the question of which roster spot Tebow is going to take seems to be giving people the biggest problem.

I look at it differently... Let's assume that there's no problem finding a spot for him on the 53 man roster. We all know that guys from 45-53 aren't even going to suit up. So these guys are in the "too good for practice squad, not good enough for game day"

Tebow, the athlete, should have no problem making that cut.

Making the cut for the game day roster is another matter.

But seeing as the NFL changed the emergency QB rule to allow them to play any time during the game, and allows 46 to suit up (if one is the emergency qb)

Is it really all that important to have Mallet dressed for game day? Couldn't Tebow be the 46th man that we're not currently utilizing? I guess the only question is whether the emergency QB can play along side Brady in a wildcat role or if Brady would need to sit out a play.

 

[BrickPat]

DO...NOT...WANT.

What can TT do for the team other than to serve as an unrelenting circus distraction?

 

[Ron Sellers]

Making the cut for the game day roster is another matter.

But seeing as the NFL changed the emergency QB rule to allow them to play any time during the game, and allows 46 to suit up (if one is the emergency qb)

Is it really all that important to have Mallet dressed for game day? Couldn't Tebow be the 46th man that we're not currently utilizing? I guess the only question is whether the emergency QB can play along side Brady in a wildcat role or if Brady would need to sit out a play.

There no longer is an emergency QB designation as far as game day rosters go.

The NFL did away with that, and instead simply made game day rosters a total of 46 players (rather than 45 plus an emergency QB). Teams can dress as many or as few quarterbacks as they desire, and all the old rules about a quarterback not being able to return to the game, or not appear until the 4th quarter are done away with. A team could have two or even three quarterbacks on the field at one time if they so desire.