T.J. Moe thread

[Avenger]

According to some of the current projections, the WR corp would be:
Danny Amendola, Aaron Dobson, Julian Edelman, Donald Jones, Josh Boyce, Matthew Slater

IF TJ Moe is all that, I wouldn't be surprise if he takes Edelman's or Jones spot. Both Edelman and Jones contracts are low risk and have no guarantee money, and Edelman's contract is only for one year. So it didn't seem like BB had that much expectations for Edelman when resigning him.

You don't know that, the only thing about Edelman's deal is telling is that other teams didn't think he was worth more or that much more than that. BB would pay more just because if no one else was.

 

[Avenger]

And I would think Jones is much lower than Edelman in chances of making the team. Edelman is almost a sure fire lock. Belichick values his versatility and that matters when it comes to the end of the roster.

 

[Trycked]

And I would think Jones is much lower than Edelman in chances of making the team. Edelman is almost a sure fire lock. Belichick values his versatility and that matters when it comes to the end of the roster.

Agreed about Edelman's chances over Jones. But I wouldn't be surprise if both of them didn't make it. Also, if BB values Edelman versatility and future with the team then wouldn't he have signed him to more than 1 year or given him some guarantee money to let him know they want him back after next year.

 

[Trycked]

And then if you have TJ Moe making it over Jones, and if Washington, who is also versatile out of the backfield and as a returner, makes it, then what do you have with Edelman. Then it would seem he's more for insurance. This is also not to say if he gets cut he will be replaced by another WR, maybe his spot goes to a different position. All of this is a big IF and not a guarantee that TJ Moe makes it.

 

[Avenger]

financially it makes no sense for Edelman to sign a longer term deal at low money with the WR corps in a state of change. If He wins a starting spot he will command a hgher contract next year, and he is the only WR on the team with experience in our offense right now, Amendola did have a little experience with McDaniels in STL though.

 

[primetime]

Never understood why ST guys get valued so highly. So without the stellar play of Slater the punt defense would give up 6.5 yards instead of 6? Is that a game changer? Need new blood in the WR corps..if someone goes down and Moe has been cut and signed to someone else's squad, then that's a big loss.

The difference between a drive that starts inside the 5 and one that starts at the 20 is tremendously big in expected points, and Slater is a big part in getting that start inside the 5. On kickoff returns he's usually the first guy down the field too, who is responsible for screwing up a return team's blocking responsibilities. Suffice to say, the difference between a good and a bad special teams is in both points (in terms of special teams TDs allowed) and in expected points (in field position allowed) and both are worth games.

Slater's a... well, special special teamer and that's a better investment in winning games than, for example, some 6th wide receiver who wasn't even particularly good in college.

 

[tonyto3690]

Slater has been a stud for us. Not sure how anyone can be complaining about him. There were a couple games this season where he made a huge tackle off a punt or KR that gave us a boost in momentum that either knocked the opponent down further or gave us something to get going.

As for Edelman, people forget how dynamic he was for us. Of course he offers value as an emergency QB and LB, but he is the best punt returner in Patriots history and IIRC the best since 2009. On top of that, he looked really really good as a WR last year. He was just buried behind other players as the #5 option at best every play.

Edelman is going to have a big season for us. He'll likely be a #3 WR just because he is so important on special teams, but when Amendola goes down, he'll be there to carry the load.

As far as I'm concerned:

Locks:
Amendola, Edelman, Boyce, Dobson, Slater

Bubble:
Jones, Moe


I wouldn't be surprised if Jones and Moe didn't make the roster. With Gronk/Hernandez/Ridley/Amendola being on the field every snap there really isn't a lot of need to carry that many receivers.

Slater and Edelman will be on the roster because they can play as that outside WR and contribute on special teams.

Boyce and Dobson obviously make the roster because they're rookies from high draft picks.

 

[supafly]

heh, funny that you would say that. Slater WILL lose his job at some point, probably sooner than later, you can count on that....this could be the year.

Nunchucks---are you serious?

Slater is a pro-bowl special teams player who Belichick considers as one of the leaders of the entire team. Just a couple of weeks ago he chose Slater to address the team after the Boston bombing attacks.

For a coach who values his ST players so highly, Slater is the kind of guy who isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[strngplyr]

Nunchucks---are you serious?

Slater is a pro-bowl special teams player who Belichick considers as one of the leaders of the entire team. Just a couple of weeks ago he chose Slater to address the team after the Boston bombing attacks.

For a coach who values his ST players so highly, Slater is the kind of guy who isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Have to agree, he's one of the most respective leaders on the team and he seems to be the guy that makes our ST unit operate the way it does.

He's clearly a leader in the eyes of his teammates and he appear to be a favorite of Belichick, just because he doesn't contribute on offense doesn't make him expendable to the team.

Moe could be even less useful offensively and it's highly unlikely he'd have the same impact on Special Teams that Slater has had.

I't frustrating reading how people fall in love with an undrafted player every season and start cutting some of the teams leaders just to make the flavor of the week fit on the team.

He's undrafted and built the same as Welker, CLEARLY that means Moe is as smart and will build the same rapport with Brady that Welker, one of his closest friends, has had with him.

A proven NFL WR in Amendola likely will never reach the same level with Brady and suddenly Moe is the next big thing?

Ridiculous.

It's one thing to cheer for him to succeed, it's another to anoint him the next Welker and cut players like Slater in favor of an unknown and unproven who went undrafted for a reason.

 

[Nunchucks]

You guys are talking about a coach who traded miloy righ before the season started, traded seymour and traded vrbel...and you wqnt to tell me je would hesitate two seconds beofre cutting a st player?

 

[primetime]

Slater's signed for 2 more years at a reasonable rate and is 27 years old. He has nothing in common with any of the players you just mentioned, all of whom were on the downside of their careers. In Seymour's case, it was about getting something for nothing when he inevitably walked at the end of the year.

 

[primetime]

Also, Welker and Amendola were substantially better college WRs than Moe. The reason they went undrafted was because they played in the Air Raid, which is a simplistic offense that inflates passing stats.

Moe was a mediocre player at Mizzou. The only reason he's being compared to either of those guys is that he went undrafted, his skin color, and the fact that scouting reports call him 'tough' or 'gritty' which are essentially codewords for 'white' anyways.

 

[Frezo]

Considering BB kept Larry Izzo for 8 years, (ST captain), I think Slater's position is secure for a few more years.

 

[Nunchucks]

Larry izzo was also a backup lb. Not a very good one, but better than slater is a wr.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Considering BB kept Larry Izzo for 8 years, (ST captain), I think Slater's position is secure for a few more years.

Slater is not going anywhere but there is a precedent. In 2009 Sam Aiken was a ST captain and had 20 catches. Despite a good year, he was cut in 2010- beaten out by Slater.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Larry izzo was also a backup lb. Not a very good one, but better than slater is a wr.

But, as I've noted above, he's been willing, on multiple occasions in the past, to carry a total of 7-8 players (including specialists) who play almost exclusively on STs.

So, yes, he does put a high emphasis on ST play for ST's sake.

 

[Trycked]

...

As for Edelman, people forget how dynamic he was for us. Of course he offers value as an emergency QB and LB, but he is the best punt returner in Patriots history and IIRC the best since 2009. On top of that, he looked really really good as a WR last year. He was just buried behind other players as the #5 option at best every play.

Edelman is going to have a big season for us. He'll likely be a #3 WR just because he is so important on special teams, but when Amendola goes down, he'll be there to carry the load.

As far as I'm concerned:

Locks:
Amendola, Edelman, Boyce, Dobson, Slater
...

How good/important could he have been last year? He was out for almost half the season, and during this time the team didn't miss a beat. BB has already brought in competition for Edelman on special teams in the form of Washington. So, this should be a sign that there is no real LOCK of Edelman making the team. He'll have to compete for the job just like every other schmoe.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

How good/important could he have been last year? He was out for almost half the season, and during this time the team didn't miss a beat. BB has already brought in competition for Edelman on special teams in the form of Washington. So, this should be a sign that there is no real LOCK of Edelman making the team. He'll have to compete for the job just like every other schmoe.

Competition, yes, but Edelman still has the upper hand in it: Washington has never had a PR TD (Edelman has 3 official ones, and 2 more that don't count), and Washington's PR average is three yards lower than Edelman's.

Right now, as far as this goes, I expect that Edelman will be the primary PR, with Washington the primary KR.

 

[Trycked]

...

I't frustrating reading how people fall in love with an undrafted player every season and start cutting some of the teams leaders just to make the flavor of the week fit on the team.

...

Isn't that the fun part of the offseason? It's so easy to go with the favorite, but we love to root for the underdog. Also if you look at the current makeup of the team, we're not alone, even BB loves (underdrafted) players who can improve the team.

 

[tonyto3690]

How good/important could he have been last year? He was out for almost half the season, and during this time the team didn't miss a beat. BB has already brought in competition for Edelman on special teams in the form of Washington. So, this should be a sign that there is no real LOCK of Edelman making the team. He'll have to compete for the job just like every other schmoe.

Edelman would have made a world of difference against the ravens.

It would have also prevented welker from returning punts and it was obvious he was told to just go out of bounds and avoid big hits. I cringed every time I saw him return a punt.

Washington is a kr guy. Edelman doesn't do that, he does punts.

Edelman will be on the final roster, barring injury. He has too much upside, ability as a tool box guy, and special teams value to not be.

People forget belichick wanted him starting over welker to start the season before he got hurt. Sure I'm sure there was some politics and gamesmanship behind it but he wouldn't have if he didn't think Edelman would be a better fit an best for the team as opposed to welker who drew guys to gronk and hern