Sullivan arrested

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Sooner: I know as a clear fact with no shadow of any doubt in the known universe that Bethel is a goner. I think we all do. Did you not notice that he was traded?

 

[SoonerPatriot]

That's Ty Law. When Sullivan starts getting consideration for the Hall of Fame, then maybe people will look the other way if he screws up once. This is an underachiever that's getting pretty darn close to his ninth life. Not nearly the same thing.

Standards should apply to everyone equally. At least that's how the league looks at it. If Brady got caught on randoms he wouldn't be treated any differently than Onterio Smith. Your logic that because Law was a star player he gets a pass for getting caught with ecstacy is flawed.

I'd also add that if anyone thinks that Sullivan is the only Pat who has sparked one up recently is naive.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Sooner: I know as a clear fact with no shadow of any doubt in the known universe that Bethel is a goner. I think we all do. Did you not notice that he was traded?

My point is anything could have happened in training camp. Bethel could have had a good camp, Caldwell or Branch could have gone down with a serious injury and suddenly Bethel's immediate future with the team would have changed.

 

[PromisedLand]

A few of you are missing the point. This has nothing to do with whether pot should be legal or his gun was registered or whether we all have run stop signs or driven without seatbelts or whether he cooperated once stopped. This is about character and the kind they want on this team.

Before this incident Sullivan was an apparently overweight, unmotivated kid who had the talent to have been drafted in the first round to play a position BB puts tremendous value in. Bethel was a difficult to reach kid with enough speed to get drafted in the second round, but so stubbornly immature that after three years of top flight coaching and mentoring he still couldn't even take responsibility for his own fate. NO and NE swapped two problem children to give each a fresh start on a second and possibly final chance (although there are enough teams in this league that will take a flyer on anyone each probably assumes there will be as many chances as it takes until someone finally appreciates them).

Sullivan came here fat and unmotivated - that's worth a shot on a first round talent at his position. Now he is fat, unmotivated, immature, dumb as a brick, and he's managed to embarrass a franchise that prides itself in fielding a team full of character guys who know better and value their opportunity highly enough not to behave in a way that reflects poorly on their employer. I think he was going to be given every opportunity to earn a roster spot. Now I'm not so sure he will be given any, and if he is he'll likely have to prove to be better than a backup NT to cost some less talented but harder working guy who cares about playing football the 53rd roster spot.

And they can cut him for any reason - the only time a grievance arises is if a player is injured or owed bonus money that was guaranteed and the team balks at paying it or tries to get some of it back. We owe him nothing. His salary doesn't kick in until he makes the 53 man roster, and in his case it might take longer since the salary guarantees to veterans with less than 4 credited years I believe kick in after week 4.

He could be suspended just for being arrested too - Colts players were long before any legal action arose following their arrests last season. As was Ty Law for one game in December of 2000 - although the Pats did that themselves. It's part of the morals clause the NFL has that allows them to discipline a player irrespective of what the legal system can and cannot prove - the arrest itself is enough to warrant it. And if he is not in the program already this will land him in it whether he was technically charged with DUI or not or whether he had previously been in the pee in a cup program because posession of a banned substance is in and off itself an offense in the NFL. He will now have to pee in a cup.

Exactly. Which is why I think the 11 Big Mac wrappers say as much about Sullivan's level of commitment as the "less than an ounce" of marijauna.

 

[spacecrime]

Damn people. You whine and complain about guys like Borges and Cafardo being vultures. You are no better than them with the comments you've been making

We will try to follow your example of not judging others, and expressing tolerance.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Standards should apply to everyone equally. At least that's how the league looks at it. If Brady got caught on randoms he wouldn't be treated any differently than Onterio Smith. Your logic that because Law was a star player he gets a pass for getting caught with ecstacy is flawed.

I'd also add that if anyone thinks that Sullivan is the only Pat who has sparked one up recently is naive.

That's a nice theory but we don't live in fantasy land. If you think the same standards apply to Ty Law and Johnathan Sullivan, you're kidding yourself. That's like saying you wish for peace on earth. Nice theory but not a practical one.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Also Sooner, I'm referring to how a TEAM treats a player, not the league. I think we may have gotten our lines crossed there.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

That's a nice theory but we don't live in fantasy land. If you think the same standards apply to Ty Law and Johnathan Sullivan, you're kidding yourself. That's like saying you wish for peace on earth. Nice theory but not a practical one.

So you're saying that if Brady got caught multiple times by the LEAGUE he would be given a pass by the league? Because that's what it seems like you're saying. (On edit: I caught your clarification and agree, though it shouldn't be that way).

 

[spacecrime]

My point is anything could have happened in training camp. Bethel could have had a good camp, Caldwell or Branch could have gone down with a serious injury and suddenly Bethel's immediate future with the team would have changed.

Injuries to the Pats WR corps will would have had no effect of Bethel's chances on this team. We had injuries in the past, and Bethel was not put on the field as a result. Instead we signed JAGs Andre Davis and Tim Dwight, and activated UDFAs from the practice squad like Bam Childress .

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Injuries to the Pats WR corps will would have had no effect of Bethel's chances on this team. We had injuries in the past, and Bethel was not put on the field as a result. Instead we signed JAGs Andre Davis and Tim Dwight, and activated UDFAs from the practice squad like Bam Childress .

Weren't Dwight and Davis signed in the off-season?

 

[Keegs]

we should try to trade him back for bethel.

 

[primetime]

He can't be cut now because players can't be cut because of disciplinary reasons (it's not new, the NFL made a big deal out of it when the Cowboys cut Quincy Carter a few years back after failing a drug test). He will most likely be cut when he inevitably fails his conditioning test, but don't think this didn't play into it.

 

[Keegs]

what a dumbass that fat bastard should have just ate the weed like he eats everything else. what a fat idiot.

 

[Tunescribe]

We will try to follow your example of not judging others, and expressing tolerance.

..... .....

 

[spacecrime]

no Bethel had a bettter shot at roster this year than last because i think he can beat out Childress/Stone or Stone at very least since.

The fact that the Pats traded him for someone who was about to be cut anyway shows what chance Bethel had of making the team. If BB/Sp thought he had a chance to make it, they wouldn't have traded him.

It doesn't matter if he could or couldn't have made the team, because he isn't here. BB tossed him away already.

Sometimes a change of scenery does wonders, and sometimes a player gets a wakeup call. I always liked Bethel and hope he does well.

I hope he is working out diligently, not driving around at three in the morning with radio blasting running stop signs while being followed by a cop

 

[spacecrime]

He can't be cut now because players can't be cut because of disciplinary reasons (it's not new, the NFL made a big deal out of it when the Cowboys cut Quincy Carter a few years back after failing a drug test). He will most likely be cut when he inevitably fails his conditioning test, but don't think this didn't play into it.

??? The Cowboys DID cut Quincy Carter, so obviously it was legal. Remember? The Jets picked him up.

And we cut that DT Chris SUllivan when a cop arrested him for drunkeness. Chris Sullivan wasn't even driving. He was sitting in a car in a parking lot.

Arrested about 1:00, cut the next day.

Also, remember the TO case. The ruling now is that you can't inactivate a player to discilpline him. You must keep him active or cut him.

Anyway, if Jonathan Sullivan is cut, it won't be to discipline him. Who cares if he does it again or about punishing him. It's not about discipline. It's about the makeup of the team.

If he is cut, it will be because he doesn't fit into the mold of a Patriots player, and to provide an example to the remaining players. Remember Steve Martin getting cut after yapping to the press?

 

[Kdo5]

He'll be cut by Bellichick in a matter of days now.

 

[spacecrime]

Weren't Dwight and Davis signed in the off-season?

Picked up Dwight early because WR corps was weak. Had Bethel been a contender, Dwight would not have been needed.

Traded fifth rounder for Davis, but cut him before season started because he couldn't run routes any better than Donald Hayes. Signed him during the season when out only other option was Bethel. Had Bethel been a contender, Davis, as bad as he was, would not have been needed.

Activated UFDA Childress late in the season off the practice squad. Had Bethel been a contender, Childress would not have been needed. Just activating a practice squad guy in december and playing him rather than your second round draft pick should speak volumes.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The fact that the Pats traded him for someone who was about to be cut anyway shows what chance Bethel had of making the team. If BB/Sp thought he had a chance to make it, they wouldn't have traded him.

It doesn't matter if he could or couldn't have made the team, because he isn't here. BB tossed him away already.

Sometimes a change of scenery does wonders, and sometimes a player gets a wakeup call. I always liked Bethel and hope he does well.

I hope he is working out diligently, not driving around at three in the morning with radio blasting running stop signs while being followed by a cop

Supposedly the new NO HC has more use for Bethel's running style then the BB/Weis system, which should be encouraging for him. The competition they reportedly have in camp at WR should be insentive to work hard. Perhaps that played a role in Sully's behavior, he's competing to be the 5th DL in a 3-4 system given who we have on the roster - he could also have been thinking about a whole Training Camp lined up across from Mankins and Neal! Perhaps he'll find a way to play somewhere warmer - like Denver.

 

[DefenseRules]

Picked up Dwight early because WR corps was weak. Had Bethel been a contender, Dwight would not have been needed.

Traded fifth rounder for Davis, but cut him before season started because he couldn't run routes any better than Donald Hayes. Signed him during the season when out only other option was Bethel. Had Bethel been a contender, Davis, as bad as he was, would not have been needed.

Activated UFDA Childress late in the season off the practice squad. Had Bethel been a contender, Childress would not have been needed. Just activating a practice squad guy in december and playing him rather than your second round draft pick should speak volumes.

Excellent post.