Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[upstater1]

I don't get this, supposedly BB had final say, if he wanted a later round QB couldn't he have just said no about Mac and draft the guy he wanted?

"Supposedly"

 

[venecol]

Yeah, I expect there's going to be a lot of stripping of the heroes veneer on this. I would think that Bill is going to look bad, only because of when the interviews took place, the house of cards was falling. My guess is Brady is going to look good, only because he's Brady. I am really excited to see the other players, especially from the 1st three, only because it's going to be less drama filled. The second three, they are all older and more jaded, and had been thru some battles at that point. They were all, essentially, young and innocent 2001-04. (no one was young, no one was innocent, you know what I mean) By the time 4-5-6 roll around, they had been thru 2007, 2011, the 'gates, Tom's suspension and the Butler fiasco. They had been battle hardened by the end, especially RKK, Bill and Tom. We saw a little of that in The Man In The Arena, how Tom had changed. They all were much less wide eyed by the end. It'll be interesting to see how it changes.

Per Matt, it really changed after '16 SB and Tom took the 1st punch. This is going to be fun.

 

[venecol]

1. Mac never had it, never will. BB was absolutely right to want a later round QB instead, and you could see it when they drafted him. They didn't pounce on the guy, BB even asked if they were really all agreed to go with Mac in the final analysis. Clearly there were other opinions.

 

[ahmed]

There's a lot of bitter sportswriters in other markets that won't vote for him because of Spy and Deflate Gate.

Zero chance he is not 1st ballot. They would lose all credibility.

 

[sb1]

Heh. So I guess Bill was not really the GM all along and that’s why he was forced to pick Mac Jones in the first round against his own judgement. Blackmail?

 

[sb1]

Zero chance he is not 1st ballot. They would lose all credibility.

He’ll be first ballot. Probably not unanimous though and that’s too bad.

 

[NormZauchin]

and tons of people revere gibbs for winning sbs with 3 different qbs. what they never ever mention is that 2 of their sbs were won during strike years.

Gibbs and his organization prepared to take advantage of the strike-shortened seasons. They deserve some recognition for that.

 

[Triumph]

Oh no I was hoping we would keep stockpiling receivers who can't play, drafting bust after bust, hiring only friends on the coaching staff, and maybe even another few years of mismanaging the quarterback and offensive line. It will be a sad day when those things are just memories of the past.

All that incompetence and 6 Lombardis.

Corky Mac was not a BB pick and BB wanted to get rid of him, but was over ruled by *.

 

[Wozzy]

Kelce screaming and body checking Andy Reid… is that what peace and harmony in a modern player friendly coaching style looks like in the NFL?

Pro football is a stressful business, BB and Brady made it work for twenty years.

Cry about it now… after unprecedented success. Good grief…

 

[venecol]

 

[HSanders]

also tom brady: "most of what i say is not what i'm really thinking"

 

[venecol]

also tom brady: "most of what i say is not what i'm really thinking"

Yes, your hate of Tom Brady is well documented. Moving on.

 

[Real fan 02]

After a 13-3 Super Bowl victory? A bold move Cotton.

Had a chance to watch the 1st 2 episodes. As fan yeah we all watched, and wondering how it would go post drew. But actually watching the footage reliving everything... hearing the players talk, the coaches.. it was just amazing man.

It made me really and truly more than I have appreciate Bill. He pretty much put his job on the line for his belief in Brady early on. I critique him for the Last 3 seasons rightly so.. but the man was phenomenal early on with brady. Can't wait for the next 2 episodes.

 

[Steve102]

Per Matt, it really changed after '16 SB and Tom took the 1st punch. This is going to be fun.

The Tom Curran thing you posted... they were discussing when Bill's demeanor changed and Tom said 2017. (i think) Megan O asked "what changed in 2017?' and Curran answered "Tom Brady". No follow up, nothing. I paused it, looked at my wife and said that was when Tom no longer needed Bill. The son had outgrown the father. Tom knew the answers to the test. Further, that was post-Butler. I am going to extrapolate that Tom was furious with Bill for giving away the Eagles SB. It'll be interesting to see if this comes to light in the series. Can't wait.

 

[HSanders]

Yes, your hate of Tom Brady is well documented. Moving on.

quoting someone shows hate? who knew?

 

[lancerman]

The Tom Curran thing you posted... they were discussing when Bill's demeanor changed and Tom said 2017. (i think) Megan O asked "what changed in 2017?' and Curran answered "Tom Brady". No follow up, nothing. I paused it, looked at my wife and said that was when Tom no longer needed Bill. The son had outgrown the father. Tom knew the answers to the test. Further, that was post-Butler. I am going to extrapolate that Tom was furious with Bill for giving away the Eagles SB. It'll be interesting to see if this comes to light in the series. Can't wait.

Yeah there were rumors for awhile that Tom viewed winning the 2017 Super Bowl vs the Eagles as his big capstone moment where he’d have hit 40 and won an MVP playing at an elite level and would cement it winning his 6th ring. He was clearly setting things up to be the big ending of his Tom vs Time branding. Then he played out of his mind and felt like Bill sabotaged things in a power trip. Gronk was in a similar position since he missed the prior year and wanted a shot at redemption.

Then the next year the team won but it was in a mostly defensive effort where Bill got most of the credit and it kinda was salt in the wound.

Idk how accurate those rumors were, but it’s been pretty obvious for awhile that Bill’s relationship with some key players broke in that timeframe. Gronk couldn’t stand it and retired rather than play for him and only came back when Brady convinced him football was still fun in Tampa. And obviously Brady was making moves to pack up.

 

[amfootball]

Heh. So I guess Bill was not really the GM all along and that’s why he was forced to pick Mac Jones in the first round against his own judgement. Blackmail?

this narrative that bill was forced to draft Mac Jones is perhaps the saddest cover for team Bill that I have ever seen.

 

[Clonamery]

The Tom Curran thing you posted... they were discussing when Bill's demeanor changed and Tom said 2017. (i think) Megan O asked "what changed in 2017?' and Curran answered "Tom Brady". No follow up, nothing. I paused it, looked at my wife and said that was when Tom no longer needed Bill. The son had outgrown the father. Tom knew the answers to the test. Further, that was post-Butler. I am going to extrapolate that Tom was furious with Bill for giving away the Eagles SB. It'll be interesting to see if this comes to light in the series. Can't wait.

Feb 2018.

 

[1960Pats]

It's not just Bill did not win a SB without Brady. He plain sucked here and in Cleveland. He is sub .500 with only 2 playoff appearances and 1 playoff win. This spans almost 11 years of coaching without Brady. It's a big sample size.

And his results are far worse in the non-Brady years than any other HC except for Landry, who's the only other top HC with 8 losing seasons. The next worst is Reid and he only has 3 losing seasons and is within reach of Bill's win total and is close in playoff %. If Reid sticks around and Mahomes stays healthy he'll probably catch Bill and Halas but not Shula in wins

And then there are the losses. Bill has more of those than any other HC and in less years than Shula and Halas. That's why I like to use %'s rather than totals. In that regard Lombardi won 5 titles in his 10 years and had a much better winning % than any other HC in both the playoffs and regular season. If he didn't die from cancer he would have blown away all of the coaching records. That may be why they named the championship trophy after him.

 

[1960Pats]

Thanks for that, good find. Similar to what the Director (Matt) says on the docuseries. As I understand Matt, this is a story about the arch of the relationship between Belichick and Brady (and Kraft) from the beginning (when Tom arrived) to the end of the dynasty (when Tom left). They focus on key moments in that relationship, with all the other intervieews (players, executives, etc.) filling in for context. I'm looking forward to the rest.

I went on IMDB to check the rating and it's way up there, 9.2 compared to 80 For Brady's 5.8. Now I have to decide if I want to watch this as they come out or wait and binge watch, which might be tough to do if I come here and see it discussed.