Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[archstanton543]

this narrative that bill was forced to draft Mac Jones is perhaps the saddest cover for team Bill that I have ever seen.

The Copium is strong.

 

[venecol]

The Tom Curran thing you posted... they were discussing when Bill's demeanor changed and Tom said 2017. (i think) Megan O asked "what changed in 2017?' and Curran answered "Tom Brady". No follow up, nothing. I paused it, looked at my wife and said that was when Tom no longer needed Bill. The son had outgrown the father. Tom knew the answers to the test. Further, that was post-Butler. I am going to extrapolate that Tom was furious with Bill for giving away the Eagles SB. It'll be interesting to see if this comes to light in the series. Can't wait.

I understood them to mean after the 2016 SB (28-3), which I guess was in 2017. That cemented Tom as the GOAT in pretty much everyone's eyes except the haters. This will definitely be shown in detail as a turning point in their relationship.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes, your hate of Tom Brady is well documented. Moving on.

Feb 2018.

As much as I hated that superbowl hero Malcolm butler didn't play.. the way the eagles were carving up Matt Patricia's defense I really don't think it would have mattered much... I put that game on Bill and the defensive game plan. The offense scored more than enough.

 

[Steve102]

I understood them to mean after the 2016 SB (28-3), which I guess was in 2017. That cemented Tom as the GOAT in pretty much everyone's eyes except the haters. This will definitely be shown in detail as a turning point in their relationship.

Which goes along with my theory that the “son” had outgrown the father. Either SB works, really. Either Tom knew he’d surpassed what bill could bring to the table or he was mad that bill gave it away. It’s going to be great fun to watch it.

 

[203Pat]

All that incompetence and 6 Lombardis.

Corky Mac was not a BB pick and BB wanted to get rid of him, but was over ruled by *.

Ahh yes the old "6 rings" defense. Bill's 6 rings look a lot less shiny when Brady isn't around.

Also the good player = Bill, bad player = someone else argument is truly the saddest straw to grasp at for Team Bill. Both Bill and Team Bill go down with an embarrassing whimper.

 

[HSanders]

Ahh yes the old "6 rings" defense. Bill's 6 rings look a lot less shiny when Brady isn't around.

Also the good player = Bill, bad player = someone else argument is truly the saddest straw to grasp at for Team Bill. Both Bill and Team Bill go down with an embarrassing whimper.

so what you are saying is that tb is so much better than montana etc. that he alone makes his coaching irrelevant?

 

[Real fan 02]

so what you are saying is that tb is so much better than montana etc. that he alone makes his coaching irrelevant?

Brady did something that Montana didn't. Going to another team and immediately winning the superbowl.

 

[signbabybrady]

Brady did something that Montana didn't. Going to another team and immediately winning the superbowl.

It wasn't on another team but Montana did win a SB without Walsh. Seifert was the coach the for the 4th.

Going to a new team and winning is more impressive for the player. But you could also argue that having a different coach win with your team and QB is worse for the coach. Bill never had someone do that.

 

[HSanders]

Brady did something that Montana didn't. Going to another team and immediately winning the superbowl.

so did manning. is he better than montana?
not devaluing players at all. but i feel coaching is being devalued in general at times . as if tb,montana,etc. just sprung from the earth perfectly formed like greek gods.

 

[Real fan 02]

It wasn't on another team but Montana did win a SB without Walsh. Seifert was the coach the for the 4th.

Agreed yes George Seifert. The 9ners planned well for Montana having young on the roster made it easier to move joe.. could Jimmy have been our Steve young?..

 

[Real fan 02]

so did manning. is he better than montana?
not devaluing players at all. but i feel coaching is being devalued in general at times . as if tb,montana,etc. just sprung from the earth perfectly formed like greek gods.

Coaching isn't being devalued at all. Manning had more than 1 coach in Indy tom had 1. Who also happened to be the GM. Coaching isn't being devalued at the least. Anyone who watches the 1st 2 episodes can Cleary see that it was Coaching early on..

 

[signbabybrady]

Agreed yes George Seifert. The 9ners planned well for Montana having young on the roster made it easier to move joe.. could Jimmy have been our Steve young?..

My opinion on that is Jimmy was good enough to take SF to a SB but they lost. I think he could have done that here but I can't say that he would of won. Maybe, maybe not, probably not, you is what you is.

 

[Real fan 02]

My opinion on that is Jimmy was good enough to take SF to a SB but they lost. I think he could have done that here but I can't say that he would of won. Maybe, maybe not, probably not, you is what you is.

I see.. I think he's attainable as a bridge veteran in a few weeks. I'd take him while the draft pick acclimates.. we have no starting QB right now so as a fan anyone would be an upgrade

 

[203Pat]

so what you are saying is that tb is so much better than montana etc. that he alone makes his coaching irrelevant?

Not saying that at all. I am on record saying that neither guy wins 6 rings without the other but it is hard to ignore that one guy put together a Super Bowl win and a couple MVP caliber seasons while the other one seemed to get worse year after year.

Brady adapted his game and continued to improve throughout his career whereas Bill seemed to go the status quo route year after year. I understand that Brady really only had to worry about improving himself where Bill had to worry about all 53 guys on the roster but that was where Bill's stats quo approach ended up ending it for him here. He never adapted the way he constructed a team even after losing the greatest quarterback of all time. Instead of biting the bullet and trading for a guy like Hill or AJ Brown or even extending himself just a little more for Hopkins, Bill just kept shopping in the bargain bin.

 

[Real fan 02]

Not saying that at all. I am on record saying that neither guy wins 6 rings without the other but it is hard to ignore that one guy put together a Super Bowl win and a couple MVP caliber seasons while the other one seemed to get worse year after year.

Brady adapted his game and continued to improve throughout his career whereas Bill seemed to go the status quo route year after year. I understand that Brady really only had to worry about improving himself where Bill had to worry about all 53 guys on the roster but that was where Bill's stats quo approach ended up ending it for him here. He never adapted the way he constructed a team even after losing the greatest quarterback of all time. Instead of biting the bullet and trading for a guy like Hill or AJ Brown or even extending himself just a little more for Hopkins, Bill just kept shopping in the bargain bin.

Bill was even on record saying he and the coaches had to find ways to motivate and keep up with brady becuase he was so much on point with everything. Brady said in his own words that "I had such an insatiable desire to want to win." The other aspect to things was the roster. Ownership and Bill both were able to benefit from Brady being such a humble superstars constantly taking less for the good of the overall team. Alot of guys have generational wealth due to Brady. Gronk, welker, Jules to name a few.

 

[signbabybrady]

I see.. I think he's attainable as a bridge veteran in a few weeks. I'd take him while the draft pick acclimates.. we have no starting QB right now so as a fan anyone would be an upgrade

That's my opinion 5+ years ago. Now not quite as much. If it weren't for that suspension he might still be interesting for that bridge but those first 2 games are kind of critical for that. Still could be the best option but we'd potentially need someone else for weeks 1 and 2 otherwise the rook assuming we take 1 (which we better) ends up on the field anyway.

I'm not as much worried about the bridge as I am about getting pick 3 right. If he has to play week 1 so be it and if there is way to avoid I do think it's better for the rook but if the rook is right I can deal with a crappy record while he sits or I can deal with him struggling through things on the field. That's a Mayo decision that will be interesting to see but I don't care that much which approach he takes ill just blame him after if I think he screwed it up lol.

 

[Real fan 02]

That's my opinion 5+ years ago. Now not quite as much. If it weren't for that suspension he might still be interesting for that bridge but those first 2 games are kind of critical for that. Still could be the best option but we'd potentially need someone else for weeks 1 and 2 otherwise the rook assuming we take 1 (which we better) ends up on the field anyway.

I'm not as much worried about the bridge as I am about getting pick 3 right. If he has to play week 1 so be it and if there is way to avoid I do think it's better for the rook but if the rook is right I can deal with a crappy record while he sits or I can deal with him struggling through things on the field. That's a Mayo decision that will be interesting to see but I don't care that much which approach he takes ill just blame him after if I think he screwed it up lol.

Well put. I've said I'd like a bridge anyway.. that guys currently isn't on the roster. Brissett perhaps. I'm too of the mind if the QB is ready absolutely let him play. If we were 4-13 and the qb looked the part and we were ascending I think fans would be optimistic.

 

[203Pat]

Bill was even on record saying he and the coaches had to find ways to motivate and keep up with brady becuase he was so much on point with everything. Brady said in his own words that "I had such an insatiable desire to want to win." The other aspect to things was the roster. Ownership and Bill both were able to benefit from Brady being such a humble superstars constantly taking less for the good of the overall team. Alot of guys have generational wealth due to Brady. Gronk, welker, Jules to name a few.

I think it was Edelman's podcast where him and Gronk were talking about Brady and how they wouldn't be sitting there talking without Brady and about how many guys Brady got paid. I know it had to have gotten old for Brady to not push for top dollar every year only to see guys like Moss (traded), Welker, Givens, and Branch walk in free agency to be replaced with the Doug Gabriel's, Brandon Lafell's, and Chris Hogan's of the world.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think it was Edelman's podcast where him and Gronk were talking about Brady and how they wouldn't be sitting there talking without Brady and about how many guys Brady got paid. I know it had to have gotten old for Brady to not push for top dollar every year only to see guys like Moss (traded), Welker, Givens, and Branch walk in free agency to be replaced with the Doug Gabriel's, Brandon Lafell's, and Chris Hogan's of the world.

How many seasons did we really start without Brady having a good amount of weapons?
06 and 19 might be it.

It wasn't always peak Moss/Welker or peak Gronknandez but most seasons he had weapons that he was good with:
Brown/Branch/Givens
Moss/Welker
Gronknandez
Gronk/Jules/dola

 

[Real fan 02]

I think it was Edelman's podcast where him and Gronk were talking about Brady and how they wouldn't be sitting there talking without Brady and about how many guys Brady got paid. I know it had to have gotten old for Brady to not push for top dollar every year only to see guys like Moss (traded), Welker, Givens, and Branch walk in free agency to be replaced with the Doug Gabriel's, Brandon Lafell's, and Chris Hogan's of the world.

Yes I remember that podcast! All those guys you mentioned thier careers boomed becuase of Brady. Lafell was actually a first down machine, he got hurt, and wasn't the same player. Yeah in a sense Bill was conceding how great Brady was by giving him lesser players. I've said to posters on here that had AB kept it together in 2019 we win another superbowl. The offense is what kept us back thst season.