Stephen Gostkowski

[PatsFanSince74]

The fact you'd rather we try for a 2-pt conversion to tie the game than have Gost kick an XP to tie the game, tells me everything I need to know. Basically you have no confidence in the kicker.

No. I just have more confidence in the GOAT and, if I have to choose, at that point in a Championship Game, I want the game in his hands not under the control of anyone else on the roster.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Gostkowski is a more accurate and stronger kicker than Vinatieri, who also missed some kicks that the team was able to overcome. The difference is that nobody was calling for AV to be dumped after he missed.

"more accurate and stronger." That's a deflection (no one, at least not I, is questioning Gostkowski's skill set...and, as I said in another post above, as long as Belichick and Judge believe in him...well, that's good enough for me).

But.

Vinatieri made what is universally regarded as the greatest kick under pressure in the history of the NFL into the teeth of a blizzard from 45 yards to tie the "Tuck" game and then made another tough kick under the same conditions from 23 yards to win it.

Vinatieri won SB XXXVI with the clock reading 0:00 when his kick cleared the uprights from 48 yards. No other K in the history of the NFL had ever done so before and the feat has been repeated only once, or just about, since that day (see below).

Vinatieiri won SB XXXVIII with the clock reading 0:04 (or so).

#4 was rightly cut the slack he had earned in other cases where he missed important kicks. In fact, I'd argue that he had a lot more left in the bank. And, he will be in Canton five years after he retires.

 

[Biffins]

No. I just have more confidence in the GOAT and, if I have to choose, at that point in a Championship Game, I want the game in his hands not under the control of anyone else on the roster.

Come on! You are saying you have more confidence in Brady making a 2pt than Gost making an XP and you see nothing wrong with that. Seriously?!

 

[TommyD4207]

Come on! You are saying you have more confidence in Brady making a 2pt than Gost making an XP and you see nothing wrong with that. Seriously?!

My head wants to agree with you, but I've never seen that Kevin Faulk play fail.

 

[ivanvamp]

I've been thinking about this a lot and how he capped his horrible season with a missed XP in the SuperBowl, essentially continuing the same problem he had throughout the year, and how he basically got a pass for it because we won the SuperBowl.

So my question to everyone is, if Amendola fails to convert the second 2-point conversion to tie the game at the end of regulation (Amendola barely got in) and the Patriots lose SuperBowl LI 28-26, would we all be more upset about the missed XP from Gostkowski in the SuperBowl and would there be more furor for having competition at the spot.

How come Stephen Gostkowski basically got a pass for both his season and his SuperBowl performance when he's one of the highest paid kickers in the league? Why doesn't he got more criticism and why isn't he more under pressure for holding on to his job? I feel if we had lost 28-26, fans would be calling for his head.

I don't think he got a pass. Around here, there was TONS of angst over Ghost, all season long and certainly in the Super Bowl. And lots of criticism.

 

[TommyD4207]

I don't think he got a pass. Around here, there was TONS of angst over Ghost, all season long and certainly in the Super Bowl. And lots of criticism.

Gostkowski has been getting criticism since Vinatieri left.

 

[tasmlab]

This will probably get its own thread, but SI.com published a huge article on Gost today.

Patriots Kicker Stephen Gostkowski's Time as a Pitcher | The MMQB with Peter King

It's not that interesting, but it's Patriots and football.

 

[bresna]

When this has been discussed in the past, people seem to forget his contract situation. Check it out:
Stephen Gostkowski Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap

If they cut him, he's $3 Million in dead cap space. That makes for a very expensive replacement. You can't bring someone on for half his salary because he's still going to count against the cap.

Now 2018 is a little different but he's still an expensive cut for a kicker.

 

[meatface]

Gostkowski has been getting criticism since Vinatieri left.

I think the classic Felger and Mazz criticism is the best "He hasnt had any clutch Super Bowl winning kicks". How is that his fault? People still give him crap for missing in week 2 of 2012 against the Cardinals.

 

[Biffins]

This will probably get its own thread, but SI.com published a huge article on Gost today.

Patriots Kicker Stephen Gostkowski's Time as a Pitcher | The MMQB with Peter King

It's not that interesting, but it's Patriots and football.

From that article above, a very concerning couple of paragraphs, and relevant to what we're discussing. This isn't good.

Gostkowski has learned to empty his mind before heading out onto the field to kick, but sometimes he might be too relaxed. “The hardest thing for me throughout my whole career is just having random brain farts at random times,” he says. They’re not always random. They tend to show up during lopsided games, like the first three quarters of Super Bowl 51. With two minutes left in the third quarter, Gostkowski missed his extra point attempt after the Patriots’ first touchdown. His kick hit the upright and bounced off, meaning New England trailed by 19 instead of 18. It hardly seemed consequential at the time.

Gostkowski compares kicking in a lopsided game to pitching in a relief situation. “You’re just kind of out there picking grass and you get thrust into the situation,” he says. “A lot of it is on you to get yourself going. The coach doesn’t talk to me during the game. There’s not much going on, and you’re responsible for you.

“There are [baseball] closers that don’t pitch as well when they aren’t in a save situation. Sometimes you're not always into the flow of the game. It’s a lot easier to get into the game, mentally, when it’s tight and back and forth.”

So expect more "brain farts" when we're winning by or trailing by a lot. Doh!

 

[Biffins]

When this has been discussed in the past, people seem to forget his contract situation. Check it out:
Stephen Gostkowski Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap

If they cut him, he's $3 Million in dead cap space. That makes for a very expensive replacement. You can't bring someone on for half his salary because he's still going to count against the cap.

Now 2018 is a little different but he's still an expensive cut for a kicker.

Yeah this is basically the main reason. So he's here for 2017 anyway so why bother with competition. We'll have to re-examine the situation in 2018. The cap situation clarifies my original question on this thread. Thanks.

 

[meatface]

From that article above, a very concerning couple of paragraphs, and relevant to what we're discussing. This isn't good.

Gostkowski has learned to empty his mind before heading out onto the field to kick, but sometimes he might be too relaxed. “The hardest thing for me throughout my whole career is just having random brain farts at random times,” he says. They’re not always random. They tend to show up during lopsided games, like the first three quarters of Super Bowl 51. With two minutes left in the third quarter, Gostkowski missed his extra point attempt after the Patriots’ first touchdown. His kick hit the upright and bounced off, meaning New England trailed by 19 instead of 18. It hardly seemed consequential at the time.

Gostkowski compares kicking in a lopsided game to pitching in a relief situation. “You’re just kind of out there picking grass and you get thrust into the situation,” he says. “A lot of it is on you to get yourself going. The coach doesn’t talk to me during the game. There’s not much going on, and you’re responsible for you.

“There are [baseball] closers that don’t pitch as well when they aren’t in a save situation. Sometimes you're not always into the flow of the game. It’s a lot easier to get into the game, mentally, when it’s tight and back and forth.”

So expect more "brain farts" when we're winning by or trailing by a lot. Doh!

Ghost has been an NFL kicker for 11 years, if there was an issue with his mindset or if the coaching staff had an issue with his mindset then he would have washed out a long time ago.

 

[meatface]

Yeah this is basically the main reason. So he's here for 2017 anyway so why bother with competition. We'll have to re-examine the situation in 2018. The cap situation clarifies my original question on this thread. Thanks.

If the coaching staff had an issue with Ghost, do you really think they would let $3 million in cap space prevent them from improving the team?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Come on! You are saying you have more confidence in Brady making a 2pt than Gost making an XP and you see nothing wrong with that. Seriously?!

When a championship is on the line? No doubt about it. I'll always feel that Brady gives the current Pats team the best chance to do what it has to do under those circumstances.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

If the coaching staff had an issue with Ghost, do you really think they would let $3 million in cap space prevent them from improving the team?

Absolutely. As long as Belichick and Judge have confidence in him, I've decided that my anxiety over Gostkowski's performance is my problem and I just have to deal with it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think the classic Felger and Mazz criticism is the best "He hasnt had any clutch Super Bowl winning kicks". How is that his fault?....

That's a straw man argument and, of course, blatantly bogus on its face as a criticism of Gostkowski or anyone.

However, it is reasonable as an explanation as to why people aren't so ready to cut Gostkowski much slack when things don't go well. An SB winning kick (or two) will get any K a fistful of "Get Out of Jail Free" cards. Is that completely fair? Probably not, but human nature is human nature.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let's all agree the worst play of the game was Chung fielding a punt Willie Mays style at the 10 yard line (near the sideline) for no explainable reason. Every time Onre-watch the game I wonder how on earth he would even think about getting near that thing.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Vinatieiri won SB XXXVIII with the clock reading 0:04 (or so)

He wouldn't have had to win it at 00:04 if he hadn't missed two earlier in the game.

 

[supafly]

No. I just have more confidence in the GOAT and, if I have to choose, at that point in a Championship Game, I want the game in his hands not under the control of anyone else on the roster.

While I certainly understand your explanation, the odds of making an XP are significantly higher than the odds of making a successful 2 point conversion, GOAT or not.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

He wouldn't have had to win it at 00:04 if he hadn't missed two earlier in the game.

He made the kick he had to make. Period.

There were probably a dozen other plays by half a dozen different other players, including Brady, that would have meant he "wouldn't have had to win it at 00:04." But that's not the way it turned out.

Big games come down to big plays. Big plays are needed because of a whole lot of "small" plays that didn't work out as expected.